Accessory DAC & Amp combo perfect for Mini Itx builts

[winterfart1]

Hi all, i realised that (at least for me), on board mobo dac chip receives a lot of static and isn't exactly the best.

My built was:
Ncase M1 V5
Intel i7-6700k at 4.5GHz
Asus Z170i mobo
Gigabyte G1 GTX1070
Cryorig m9i
3x 120mm Thermaltake Riing LED fans for Intake with fan controller
1x 92mm Artic Cooling Fan (Recommended!)

Some recommendations I have in mind were for SFF built so that such components could be easily tuck away were:
Audioquest Dragonfly (24bit)
Geekout V2 (32bit) - not too sure how the company is doing now tho


Are there any other recommendations or people facing the same issue too?

 

[Soul_Est]

What headphones or IEMs are you going to drive with this outboard audio? What music will you be listening to? (genres, mastering, and file quality matter) What software will you be using to listen to the music with? (bit-perfect, gapless playback, and control matter) I have ideas on what to suggest but without knowing what you are going to be using them with, those ideas are worthless.

 

[winterfart1]

What headphones or IEMs are you going to drive with this outboard audio? What music will you be listening to? (genres, mastering, and file quality matter) What software will you be using to listen to the music with? (bit-perfect, gapless playback, and control matter) I have ideas on what to suggest but without knowing what you are going to be using them with, those ideas are worthless.

Ah thanks for pointing that out. I listen to lossless music off tidal or wav files on Itunes. File quality do matter to me as I like to be able to hear the details, width and depth of the music. I also like my music to be warm and with a little bass.

Genres which I listen to: Pop, Hip Hop, Classical, Electronic, Acoustic.

I don't like controlling music or changing the EQ

I currently frequently listen between the Harman Kardon soundsticks iii, KZ ZST IEMs, Sennheiser 595. So i don't exactly need an amp now but it would be a good bonus when i upgrade my headphones.

 

[Thehack]

Objective amp and DAC combo. Fairly small, inexpensive and has a cult following.

It is an open sourced design by an electrical engineer.

 

[EdZ]

I currently frequently listen between the Harman Kardon soundsticks iii, KZ ZST IEMs, Sennheiser 595. So i don't exactly need an amp now but it would be a good bonus when i upgrade my headphones.

The DAC itself in the Z170i (or any motherboard with IHDA/Azalia rather than AC'97) is perfectly adequate on its own. You'd probably benefit more from an external amplifier on the existing line-output than adding an extra DAC if you're having issues with it driving certain headphones. If you're getting a lot of static, that may be an actual hardware fault (either on the motherboard itself, or a harder to pin down grounding issue) or a setup issue with your software audio chain.

For amps themselves, I'd second @Thehack in recommending the O2. There are pre-built versions for sale, but it's easy to assemble from parts if you want something you can build and customise yourself.

 

[Soul_Est]

Ah thanks for pointing that out. I listen to lossless music off tidal or wav files on Itunes. File quality do matter to me as I like to be able to hear the details, width and depth of the music. I also like my music to be warm and with a little bass.

Genres which I listen to: Pop, Hip Hop, Classical, Electronic, Acoustic.

I don't like controlling music or changing the EQ

I currently frequently listen between the Harman Kardon soundsticks iii, KZ ZST IEMs, Sennheiser 595. So i don't exactly need an amp now but it would be a good bonus when i upgrade my headphones.

Ah okay. Like @Thehack , I would recommend looking at the Objective 2 and ODAC that were originally created by NwAvGuy (good reading). You can source them from JDS Labs. I recommend the Fulla 2 or Modi 2 and Magni 2 from Schiit Audio. The Modi 2 and Magni 2 come in various configurations such as the Modi Multibit (which retains the original samples instead of approximating it like most others including the ODAC do), and the Magni 2 Uber (which provides more power and a cleaner signal).

 

[jØrd]

I'll throw my $0.02 in for shits / giggles
FireS Audio (formerly Fire Stone Audio) make some nice enough small boxes for the money, especially the Fire Cute stuff, I run A supplier HD and a Custom Cute off my HTPC infront of an NAD something or other amp -> http://fires-audio.eu/index.php?item=firecute-ser

This is likely the next amp i'll be getting for my desktop sometime eventually, mostly because its small, can be had at a fairly fair price around these parts and combines both headphone and speaker out into one box -> http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.ph...20-class-t-digital-mini-amplifier-60-wpc.html

Mostly I was trying to stay a little off the beaten track, everyone and their dog runs Objective or Schiit gear so don't take these as ringing endorsements its just stuff I enjoy for the price & a few people I know run / have run these parts and come away happy.

 

[EdZ]

which retains the original samples instead of approximating it like most others including the ODAC do

A bit of audiophile woo there. You're no more 'averaging' when you resample than you are when you do any sort of ADC/DAC sampling operation (moving between continuous and discrete descriptions), unless your resampling mechanism is fundamentally performed incorectly. If you are 'upsampling' sample frequencies (for example playing a 44.1KHz sampled file via a 96KHz sampling DAC) you get a perfect output: if you were to compare the analog output waveforms they would be the same. If you go the other way and downsample (e.g. playing a 96KHz file through a 44.1KHz sampling DAC) and do so correctly - that is, use your presence in the digital domain to your advantage and use a 'perfect' hard-edge low-pass filter to eliminate aliasing - you will have no artefact and just lose the inaudible frequencies.

Xiph.org have some outstanding video introductions to digital sampling that clear up a lot of common misconceptions.

 

[winterfart1]

A bit of audiophile woo there. You're no more 'averaging' when you resample than you are when you do any sort of ADC/DAC sampling operation (moving between continuous and discrete descriptions), unless your resampling mechanism is fundamentally performed incorectly. If you are 'upsampling' sample frequencies (for example playing a 44.1KHz sampled file via a 96KHz sampling DAC) you get a perfect output: if you were to compare the analog output waveforms they would be the same. If you go the other way and downsample (e.g. playing a 96KHz file through a 44.1KHz sampling DAC) and do so correctly - that is, use your presence in the digital domain to your advantage and use a 'perfect' hard-edge low-pass filter to eliminate aliasing - you will have no artefact and just lose the inaudible frequencies.

Xiph.org have some outstanding video introductions to digital sampling that clear up a lot of common misconceptions.

I never knew this actually. I always thought "upsampling" degrades music quality but what you said do make sense. Will definitely read up about this

Objective amp and DAC combo. Fairly small, inexpensive and has a cult following.

It is an open sourced design by an electrical engineer.

Ah okay. Like @Thehack , I would recommend looking at the Objective 2 and ODAC that were originally created by NwAvGuy (good reading). You can source them from JDS Labs. I recommend the Fulla 2 or Modi 2 and Magni 2 from Schiit Audio. The Modi 2 and Magni 2 come in various configurations such as the Modi Multibit (which retains the original samples instead of approximating it like most others including the ODAC do), and the Magni 2 Uber (which provides more power and a cleaner signal).

Seems like Objective 2 & ODAC and schiit audio is pretty popular and look slick af.

I'll throw my $0.02 in for shits / giggles
FireS Audio (formerly Fire Stone Audio) make some nice enough small boxes for the money, especially the Fire Cute stuff, I run A supplier HD and a Custom Cute off my HTPC infront of an NAD something or other amp -> http://fires-audio.eu/index.php?item=firecute-ser

This is likely the next amp i'll be getting for my desktop sometime eventually, mostly because its small, can be had at a fairly fair price around these parts and combines both headphone and speaker out into one box -> http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.ph...20-class-t-digital-mini-amplifier-60-wpc.html

Mostly I was trying to stay a little off the beaten track, everyone and their dog runs Objective or Schiit gear so don't take these as ringing endorsements its just stuff I enjoy for the price & a few people I know run / have run these parts and come away happy.

Ah thanks for giving an alternate option actually. Kinda reminds me of Topping's DAC and Amps.

The DAC itself in the Z170i (or any motherboard with IHDA/Azalia rather than AC'97) is perfectly adequate on its own. You'd probably benefit more from an external amplifier on the existing line-output than adding an extra DAC if you're having issues with it driving certain headphones. If you're getting a lot of static, that may be an actual hardware fault (either on the motherboard itself, or a harder to pin down grounding issue) or a setup issue with your software audio chain.

For amps themselves, I'd second @Thehack in recommending the O2. There are pre-built versions for sale, but it's easy to assemble from parts if you want something you can build and customise yourself.

Okay, so for this I do agree that it is adequate on its own. However, I have been experiencing a lot of static, pop and hissing/distorted noises while playing/pausing my audio (I had this mobo for less then a year). Perhaps it is an actual hardware fault but I doubt bringing it to the store to show that them that it does a slight pop noise will convince them enough to get an exchange. I also tried troubleshooting it with an amp but the hiss was amplified with it too. In conclusion, I gave up and am looking for nice external dacs. HAHA.

 

[Thehack]

It is likely a faulty mobo. I got one where when I use the USB it would have feedback noises. The dac/amp circuit wasn't properly isolated from the USB circuit. Sometimes you just get that one board that has a weird bug. I just use external amps nowadays too. Easier to plug my sennheiser into.

 

[alamilla]

I would suggest the Grace Design M9XX.
Grace are well known in the music production industry for their superior A/D, transformerless preamps and superb audio quality.
Currently a Massdrop exclusive but at $499 it's easily the best DAC in that price bracket.

 

[McTeags]

What's your price range? Really can't go wrong with Schiit. Fulla 2 for budget, schiit stack for mini power and jotun for balanced.

Edit: When mentioning a Schiit stack I am referring to a Magni, Modi combo.