BottleNext - Cylindrical mITX case (Preorder Update)

Minefoxi

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BottleNext: Cylindrical mITX Case




Another new round shaped crowd funding mini pc case: BottleNext on Indiegogo
 
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Supercluster

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Feb 24, 2016
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Don't know where to post this so I'll just post it here because I think it kind of fits:
Just found this in my twitter followers, another round shaped crowd funding mini pc case: BottleNext on Indiegogo

It runs for the next 8 days and hasn't been pledged yet.

It looks like a rather decent design, with potentially high manufacturing quality, though poorly presented. Not even one photo with a complete build and component location.
 

Phuncz

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Indeed. A lot of these projects fail because they forget we the people (a) don't trust them right off the bat and (b) need to convinced this is worth the money. Transparency, more than enough info and a working concept with detailed results are needed for these requirements.
 

iFreilicht

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Feb 28, 2015
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Yup, not nearly enough information there. They talk about four fans, so they seem to have used a dual-fan GPU in the early prototype, but never talk about that. An open cooler GPU would work best here, but they don't touch on that either. The intake and exhaust area seems to be extremely small, and apparently this shell design was never tested so far.

Additionally, they have a fexible funding goal, so even if just one person wants a prototype, they'll still be able to make and ship it for just 200 bucks? Single unit runs are super expensive, even if the case is very small and uses very simple parts.
 

BottleNext

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BottleNext
Apr 9, 2016
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www.bottlenext.com
Hello, here i am. Found the site. :)

I really thankfull for your comments. You are right about these comments so let me answer some questions here.. It is a work in progress so I just put it up there as a way of learning by doing. Every tip is welcome. Today I learned it needs more USB ports and the final version will get it since there are many good motherboards with less then 8 USB ports. The noise trap is also a work in progress since this design is really suited for it. *a noise trap is a place where sound gets trapped. Just kidding that didn't need explaining. :p

I will answer your questions now and I will try to update my campaign aswell. I might be switching to my own website soon (www.bottlenext.com) because indiegogo or kickstarter take 5% for just having a website. And at the same time say that if the company doesnt deliver you are screwed. This is not how I want to do business. If you pay for it you get it. End of story.

4 fans are 1x 140 cm. 1 or 2 fans on the GPU 1 CPU fan and a fan in the power supply. So it can be 4-5 fans total.

Why can i just sell 1?
I already ordered 10 prototypes for 1900 euro and I am just trying to slow the bleeding on my bank account by selling a few of them at a lower price. I even lowered the price to 150 dollar now including shipping because I should be happy if people want to bleed with me.
If i had just produced one it would have cost 1250 euro so i opted to take 10.

The air exhaust is 9 square cm (cm2) but if you want it bigger all you need is to turn the top part and it will be up a bit. Every milimeter gives u 6cm2 more exhaust. But then when you look from the side you can see trough it a bit.
The air intake is at least 20cm2. I'm sure it is but lazy to check it now since it doesnt matter as the air exhaust is the bottleneck there.
Air expands about 7% every 10 degrees it gets hotter if i remember correctly.

The reason why I chose to not be super transparent and go into crazy detail is that i believe most people don't care about all the details. They just want good pictures and a nice video to persuade them. Unlike people like us they don't want all the details. Just a good product.
I did however plan to make a more details button for those who care. Indiegogo doesnt facilitate such features directly.

Right now my goal is to make a better video and explain with pictures why it is better, because that is how far most people are willing to go their free time. And i don't blame em. Free time should be fun time.

This is not a Mac Pro ripoff. The idea started about having the cables on the bottom so the airflow would be less interrupted. The only reason why its round and small is because of the "Wife Acceptance Factor". I am married and my wife thinks she owns me so I just have to adjust to all her demands. Its not fair. I just wanted the dream XD

You could say its a wolf in sheeps clothing, a hidden gamers pc. Or just something you can put a fishtank on.

This is a MacPro (did the designer know about those cables?)

The video is also updated (a few minutes after I wrote this) and i will add audio.

Thank you so far. Hope you enjoy telling me more of what you know!
 
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Phuncz

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Hi and welcome, I'm glad you joined to elaborate more on this project because it does look promising.

Good to know this is a Dutch project, a few Dutch and Belgian people frequent this forum, including me :) I like the fact it's built here in Europe (or atleast the prototypes). I'm interested in funding one but I have some questions.

I like the very minimalistic build you've made with a very low part number, but the thin edges on the frame do concern me on the renders, or are the prototypes going to have a more solid base like the "pre-prototype" ?

You have not mentioned the PCIe extender that's needed for the GPU, if it's included or if you have one in mind or available that fits.
How is the finishing ? Is it a matte powder coat ? Do you have photos of the texture samples ?

The single case fan at the top, is that a 140mm fan ? I see slots for the fan screwholes, so I'm assuming 120mm is also supported ?
Is the GPU's weight only supported by it's bracket at the bottom ? Only reference GPUs seem to be supported, what length is supported ?
How much space is there for the CPU heatsink ?
 
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iFreilicht

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Feb 28, 2015
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Hello, here i am. Found the site. :)

I really thankfull for your comments. You are right about these comments so let me answer some questions here.. It is a work in progress so I just put it up there as a way of learning by doing. Every tip is welcome. Today I learned it needs more USB ports and the final version will get it since there are many good motherboards with less then 8 USB ports. The noise trap is also a work in progress since this design is really suited for it.

And we are thankful that you're answering them. A lot of project like this start with good intention and get buried because of a lack of communication. Good to see you're not going down that route.

More USB ports are of course useful if you've got space to put them. The noise trap could be a very cool feature of this case if you can make it work properly.

I will answer your questions now and I will try to update my campaign aswell. I might be switching to my own website soon (www.bottlenext.com) because indiegogo or kickstarter take 5% for just having a website. And at the same time say that if the company doesnt deliver you are screwed. This is not how I want to do business. If you pay for it you get it. End of story.

[...]

Why can i just sell 1?
I already ordered 10 prototypes for 1900 euro and I am just trying to slow the bleeding on my bank account by selling a few of them at a lower price. I even lowered the price to 150 dollar now including shipping because I should be happy if people want to bleed with me.
If i had just produced one it would have cost 1250 euro so i opted to take 10.

If you already bought those prototypes, there's no reason for you to use indiegogo or kickstarter, apart from a little bit of exposure maybe. Set up a small shop on your site and sell that way, that seems like a much better option.

4 fans are 1x 140 cm. 1 or 2 fans on the GPU 1 CPU fan and a fan in the power supply. So it can be 4-5 fans total.

Got it. It wasn't apparent from the pictures that there even was a top fan, at least to me.

The air exhaust is 9 square cm (cm2) but if you want it bigger all you need is to turn the top part and it will be up a bit. Every milimeter gives u 6cm2 more exhaust. But then when you look from the side you can see trough it a bit.
The air intake is at least 20cm2. I'm sure it is but lazy to check it now since it doesnt matter as the air exhaust is the bottleneck there.
Air expands about 7% every 10 degrees it gets hotter if i remember correctly.

Just to put this into perspective, the area of the intake of a single 40mm fan is 23cm² (when the radius of the fan is 19mm and the radius of the motor hub is 11mm). It seems like 20cm², let alone 9cm² are way too little to get relatively quiet airflow for dissipating 200W of energy. It will be possible to cool the system, but as the air has to speed up at the intake and exhaust, you'll get ridiculous turbulence and noise as a result.

The reason why I chose to not be super transparent and go into crazy detail is that i believe most people don't care about all the details. They just want good pictures and a nice video to persuade them. Unlike people like us they don't want all the details. Just a good product.
I did however plan to make a more details button for those who care. Indiegogo doesnt facilitate such features directly.

The problem is that you went a little too low on the detail side. There was no mention of maximum GPU length or width, maximum CPU cooler height, SFX-L support, 2.5" mounts, the riser card or even the top fan. Nobody's going to buy a case they don't even know which components fit in, no matter how nice it looks.

Of course a good product is the most important thing, but if you don't present it nicely it's not going to sell. You don't have nice pictures and even the video that was up originally didn't tell me anything about the case at all except that it's round and made of multiple parts, even the animation was way too long. Mounting the top panel like you do is very creative and you can manually increase airflow with it as you just told me. No mention of that either, you could sell that as a feature.

There are also a lot of typos and unprofessional phrases in the text, none of which convince me of the effort that you've put into the product itself.

Right now my goal is to make a better video and explain with pictures why it is better, because that is how far most people are willing to go their free time. And i don't blame em. Free time should be fun time.

Yes, that is extremely important, and I think the new video that shows the components is already a huge improvement! I now know much more about the case and its limitations.

This is not a Mac Pro ripoff. The idea started about having the cables on the bottom so the airflow would be less interrupted. The only reason why its round and small is because of the "Wife Acceptance Factor". I am married and my wife thinks she owns me so I just have to adjust to all her demands. Its not fair. I just wanted the dream XD

You could say its a wolf in sheeps clothing, a hidden gamers pc. Or just something you can put a fishtank on.


This is a MacPro (did the designer know about those cables?)

The video is also updated (a few minutes after I wrote this) and i will add audio.

Thank you so far. Hope you enjoy telling me more of what you know!

Personally I don't think that needs to be clarified, it looks different enough. I like that there's just a single hole for all the wires to exit, but you should think about how quickly you can plug something in or out, too. Right now it looks like you'd have to unscrew the top panel and remove the outer shell.
Still, incorporating the wires into the design of the case is going to be a huge selling point for some people.

This seems like a good project so far and I think you'll have no problem selling quite a few units, but you have to learn how to present your product well.
 
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BottleNext

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BottleNext
Apr 9, 2016
28
15
www.bottlenext.com
This was already on the site but removed it again to reduce text.

  • Affordable components because of compatibility with industry standards
  • It fits a Mini-ITX motherboard 170x170mm
  • SFX Power Supply (even the longer models)
  • Room for cables behind the motherboard for maximum airflow on the side with the motherboard and graphics card.
  • Room for multiple Solid State Drives above the power supply or under the case. HDD not allowed!
  • Room for M2 SSD depending on your motherboard
  • Supports graphic cards up to 175mm
  • I recommend Nvidia 750TI/950/960/970 GTX or the amazing AMD R9 Nano (it has coil whine but that is reduced with this case)
  • Future graphic cards will be starting to get shorter because of HBM memory
  • Supports CPU coolers up to 40mm.
  • I recommend the Noctua NH-L9i for intel or NH-L9a for AMD or a Scythe Kozuti/Kodati
  • If you are building a workstation without a graphics card your cpu cooler can be up to 80mm tall.
  • 120-140mm exhaust fan.
  • Includes, Screws, Rip-Tie's, 140mm fan guard
  • PCI-e 16x extender cable (in my last prototype i just used a 9,5 cm one (folded) works fine.
  • Easy to personalize *customize/mod/paint

The hole in the side/bottom is big enough for the power cable connector to go through. Pause the video at 1:53.
There are some monitor cables that won't be able to fit trough but it wouldn't be a big issue to change that if it turns out to be a big deal.

The material used is 1mm thick steel everywhere. Powdercoated white Ral 9016. I think its about the same color and finish as your washing machine or dryer. The color for these 10 units is because the machines in that factory usualy only paint red or white. If im lucky and there is another color sceduled i will ask them for that instead.

The mass production will also happen in the same factory in the Netherlands. If it ever gets that far.

The graphics card can be screwed in place at the pci slot lower end. A Rip-Tie can be arround it and through the pilar whole on the top.
And on the other side where it goes trough the case on the bottom one could also put an extra rip-tie trough the two areas sticking out.
Kind of overkill. The first screw will do.

Working on this project for 7 months now. This is my 3rd day in marketing. Its a lot to learn but im going to see through until the end.
So unproffesional text and typos. They will be here as long as I'm doing the marketing. I did have friends read and correct it but still.
 

Phuncz

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I still have some questions:
- how are the 2,5" drives attached ? Because I haven't seen a frame for these above the PSU.
- where's the power button ?
- if the power cable, multiple USB cables, a networking cable and a DVI cable can't fit through the hole, where do they need to go ?
 

BottleNext

Caliper Novice
BottleNext
Apr 9, 2016
28
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www.bottlenext.com
The SSD's can be twisted into the excess cables above the PSU. There are a lot of excess cables because the cables to the motherboard and graphics card don't have a lot of distance to cover. There is no point in attaching the SSD to the chassis directly because there are no moving parts in them. There is so little space left for excess cables and SSD's that a bracket would just complicate installation.
The current prototype that i already build there are 2 SSD's in raid 1 twisted into the cables above the PSU. Its not the cleanest solution but because you still need to do some cable management in the end will make your time installing much shorter.
There is also room for SSD's in the bottom area. This bottom area is 6cm tall and about 20cm diameter.

The power button will be on the opposite side of the Cable hole on the bottom. In this prototype it will be an external switch.
I'm wondering about always making it an external switch because then there is no need to touch the chassis after installing. Benefits are that it will never get scratched and doesnt get fingerprints etc on it. Down side is different then what people are use to.

Pictures will be uploaded of the current prototype soon (only on this forum). I don't really want to show them because it just confuses more about the current design. Its not the same except for how the components are placed. Its also 200mm diameter instead of 206mm internal diameter.

The hole should be big enough for the cables to go trough. At 1:52 of the Youtube video you can see from the side how big it is. Its 15mm height and 30mm wide when it stands upright. If you connect everything it might be too small. It will be to small if you hook up an insane amount of hardware so your concern is correct. I haven't measured cable thickness yet to calculate the right size for that hole.
 
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iFreilicht

FlexATX Authority
Feb 28, 2015
3,241
2,355
freilite.com
This was already on the site but removed it again to reduce text.

  • Affordable components because of compatibility with industry standards
  • It fits a Mini-ITX motherboard 170x170mm
  • SFX Power Supply (even the longer models)
  • Room for cables behind the motherboard for maximum airflow on the side with the motherboard and graphics card.
  • Room for multiple Solid State Drives above the power supply or under the case. HDD not allowed!
  • Room for M2 SSD depending on your motherboard
  • Supports graphic cards up to 175mm
  • I recommend Nvidia 750TI/950/960/970 GTX or the amazing AMD R9 Nano (it has coil whine but that is reduced with this case)
  • Future graphic cards will be starting to get shorter because of HBM memory
  • Supports CPU coolers up to 40mm.
  • I recommend the Noctua NH-L9i for intel or NH-L9a for AMD or a Scythe Kozuti/Kodati
  • If you are building a workstation without a graphics card your cpu cooler can be up to 80mm tall.
  • 120-140mm exhaust fan.
  • Includes, Screws, Rip-Tie's, 140mm fan guard
  • PCI-e 16x extender cable (in my last prototype i just used a 9,5 cm one (folded) works fine.
  • Easy to personalize *customize/mod/paint

That's most of the information required, definitely put this back in! You could organise and present it a little different, but other than that this is what I would've liked to see.

For example, instead of making two bullet points about the CPU cooler height with loads of unnecessary text, you could make a single one like this:
  • Maximum CPU cooler height: 40/80mm (with/without GPU installed)
The SSD's can be twisted into the excess cables above the PSU. There are a lot of excess cables because the cables to the motherboard and graphics card don't have a lot of distance to cover. There is no point in attaching the SSD to the chassis directly because there are no moving parts in them. There is so little space left for excess cables and SSD's that a bracket would just complicate installation.
The current prototype that i already build there are 2 SSD's in raid 1 twisted into the cables above the PSU. Its not the cleanest solution but because you still need to do some cable management in the end will make your time installing much shorter.

I'll answer this with a quote.

Unlike people like us they don't want all the details. Just a good product.

For a build for yourself, that would be fine, but a "good product" wouldn't rely on the cabling to hold the SSDs in their spot. Sure, it will reduce the cost of the case, and SSDs won't really care, but it is a low-quality solution. If you really want to make mounting easy and forgo any complications, you can include a bit of double-sided foam tape that allows people to stick the drives to the side.

That is precisely the reason why it seems shady to not be crazily transparent about these sorts of things, because then people can't determine whether your product is good or not, which is especially important on crowdfunding sites.
 

Minefoxi

Cable-Tie Ninja
Original poster
Jul 8, 2015
146
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www.youtube.com
Quick question: This ASUS GTX 960 looks as if the fan shroud has been taken away. Will this be necessary for every card because of the size or better cooling performance?
 

iFreilicht

FlexATX Authority
Feb 28, 2015
3,241
2,355
freilite.com
Thanks for the pictures!

I've chosen not to use a 2.5 inch bracket because:
  • Raises the price
  • Harder to install components because of more obstructions
  • The cables have to be twisted and bend in that area anyway
  • 130mm long power supples won't fit anymore
  • it reduces freedom of how much you can fit in there.
  • Cables are all different so a bracket will need a lot of space arround it for the cables to come out.
Right now i'm sure you can install 6 ssd's in that area when using a normal sized SFX PSU.

When I sell whole computers the cables and SSD's will be put into a bag made of netting.
I might will include a small one with the case aswell. Pictures ftw.

All valid design considerations, but I feel like the solution is not satisfying at all. You can of course decide to go that route, but I would strongly suggest starting a poll once your case has attracted enough attention to ask about this sort of thing. You could lose a lot of sales about that sort of thing, but maybe it won't matter at all.

BTW, have you ever tested the first prototype with a shell? The exhaust direction of the PSU somewhat worries me.
 

BottleNext

Caliper Novice
BottleNext
Apr 9, 2016
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www.bottlenext.com
I would love a poll to tell me something. But even if the outcome off that poll is 90% pro bracket. The components and cables are not the same for most components. Which needs the flexibility of an open area. I've picked mine up and shook it to hear if anything moves but no sound came from it.

Yes that is a old trashcan... K70 corsair keyboard, cookbooks have uses too... A BottleNext is also hidding somewhere in this picture.

I'm not concerned about the opposite direction of the PSU exhaust. If it would suck in air it would reduce airflow on the side of the motherboard and graphics card. There is also an air intake on bottom both sides of the PSU.
I'm more concerned about the air circulating back into the case with this design.

We have to wait until the factory finishes the 10 units and I will try take one to www.hardware.info for testing on sound and temperatures.