Log air cooling feedback/advice for an intel i7 13th gen (13700k)

wonkybonk44

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Hello, I've come to dislike my big ugly clunky ATX build that I've had for an year or so, so I've been researching ITX and MATX cases lately.

I'm very interested in transferring my current CPU, GPU, and RAM to an ITX case (either the meshroom D by SSUPD or the M1EVO).

The biggest issue with making a switch to ITX is my CPU cooling. I currently have a Dark Rock Pro 4 cooling my intel 13th gen i7 in my mid-tower build right now, but that cooler doesn't pass the max mm requirement for the ITX cases, and I don't want to switch to water-cooling due to how much more expensive it would be and the maintenance it would require.

If I were to go with moving everything inside an ITX case, what would be the best options for cooling my CPU? the meshroom D case has a max cpu cooler limit of 142 mm, and the M1EVO case has a max of 135mm.

On another note, does anyone have any recommendations for an MATX case? (I prefer something as tiny as possible for conveniency, all-black colors, while being efficient and having good thermals).
 

wonkybonk44

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update: I've given up on trying to find any air cooling as I've found out that the 13700k is one of the hottest chips out there right now...
I'm likely gonna use a 240 or maybe even 280mm AIO, undervolt the CPU so that it doesn't unnecessarily add more wattage and thus less heat, and additionally add some arctic mx-4 thermal paste as well as a thermalright contact frame to hopefully reduce the temps a tiny bit.

this should be everything I can do to max out cpu cooling for my sff build.
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

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The biggest issue with making a switch to ITX is my CPU cooling. I currently have a Dark Rock Pro 4 cooling my intel 13th gen i7 in my mid-tower build right now, but that cooler doesn't pass the max mm requirement for the ITX cases, and I don't want to switch to water-cooling due to how much more expensive it would be and the maintenance it would require.
I dont see any big differences in AIO vs. air cooling, whether it be pricing or maintenance. Expensive AIO doesnt equal good quality. STS did do tests with a pretty cheap 360 AIO by Azza, which sadly seems to be only available in the US / North American market, which manages to compete with the high-performance, expensive top class. Other examples include the Arctic Liquid Freezer II, which certainly is not for the faint-hearted, because 38 mm thick radiator (the 240 A-RGB is built like a brick, and weights about the same), but is one of the best AIOs available, while prices start at 65 Euro (240 A-RGB, the non-RGB costs 10 euro more).

The ramp-up time of AIOs vs. air cooling is slightly worse, but the noise level is just .. worlds apart. Mind me, at 100% fan speed both cooling variants get noisy, but with liquid cooling, you can keep fans below 50% rpm and still have a very decent cooling performance.

If I were to go with moving everything inside an ITX case, what would be the best options for cooling my CPU? the meshroom D case has a max cpu cooler limit of 142 mm, and the M1EVO case has a max of 135mm.

In theory, if you dont need the completely insane full 253W of the 13700k, you could PL it to 200, 180 or 150W, and still be all cool. There are tests by eg. L91, that show how well a PL'd 13700 or even 13900k performs with a low profile CPU cooler:

L91: Comparing, among others, the performance of Thermalright SI-100, Thermalright AXP120-X67, Noctua NH-L12S, NH-U12A, on a 13700k with a PL1/2 of 125W.



I did a few tests with both the Thermalright AXP120-X67 and the SI-100 myself, albeit with an i5 13500, which you can find in my blog.
The i5 13500 has a TDP of 150, but acc. to Techspot may use up to 266 W (with DDR 5); my tests use DDR 4, but I max out the CPU, so I guess its "just" 231 W. Still, at full blast, the AXP120-X67 kept the CPU at 74 C.

But if you're going for any taller CPU air coolers, something like the Thermalright Silver Soul 110, 135 or the recently announced Phantom Spirit Mini might be the better choices.

The SFF PC Master List should be of help for that decision making, too.

On another note, does anyone have any recommendations for an MATX case? (I prefer something as tiny as possible for conveniency, all-black colors, while being efficient and having good thermals).
mATX and SFF is already a tight spot / niche, but mATX, SFF AND air cooling, esp. with a 13700k .. good luck.

Jonsbo V9, if you can find it - its a 17L SFF case. Better availability: Jonbso V4, which is a 19L cube case.
Both might need a bit of strategical modifications, esp. the V4 with its closed side panel, where the PSU sits (a lot of people just add a few holes to let it breathe).

The classic Cooler Master NR200(P) allows for an mATX mod, too. Sliger Cerberus would be yet another option below 20L, allowing up to 149 mm CPU air cooler height (at least acc. to the SFF PC Master List).

Above that sits the SAMA IM-01 + its various licensed clones, which can easily accommodate air coolers up to 155 mm (and if you're lucky, even 157).

cu, w0lf.
 
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wonkybonk44

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I've widened my case options to only four mini-ITX cases: ssupd meshroom d, lian li a4-h20, asus ap201, and the coolermaster nr200p.
I do have two other ITX cases that I really like as well, the cooj z13, and m1evo, but they're both $200 ish cases and too out of my budget for now.

my clear favorite out of the first four is the a4-h20, especially the silver variant which i've really grown to like.

In theory, if you dont need the completely insane full 253W of the 13700k, you could PL it to 200, 180 or 150W, and still be all cool. There are tests by eg. L91, that show how well a PL'd 13700 or even 13900k performs with a low profile CPU cooler:
that's very true, however I do want this ITX to remain future proof, so that the cooling can handle a 14 series intel chip or even a 15 series if it is compatible with LGA 1700.
is there any specific way to limit wattage to a specific number? like "this cpu is limited to only 200 watts". "I've only seen videos that show "-0.070 V", and I've never undervolted a cpu before so this is something very unfamiliar to me.

mATX and SFF is already a tight spot / niche, but mATX, SFF AND air cooling, esp. with a 13700k .. good luck.
^
If I get the lian li a4-h20, I would likely water cool the 13700k with an ek nucleus 240mm, as I've seen a video where it does exceptionally well in terms of cooling and noise, while being a great lesser priced option. do you have any thoughts on this?
on the other hand, if I get the meshroom S, which can fit a 280mm aio, I feel like the arctic liquid freezer 2 should be the best option, unless you have any others in mind?
Other examples include the Arctic Liquid Freezer II, which certainly is not for the faint-hearted, because 38 mm thick radiator (the 240 A-RGB is built like a brick, and weights about the same), but is one of the best AIOs available

another question, do you think it would be worth switching out the AIO stock fans for something more high-end, such as noctua fans or bequiet fans?

last question: in pcpartpicker, with the 13700k, an rtx 3070, 32gb ram, 2tb ssd, it shows that my estimated wattage would be 557W. Would it be too close of a margin if I used an SFX PSU of 600W that is gold rated? or should I go with something higher like a 750W?

thank you for reading!
 
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hrh_ginsterbusch

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is there any specific way to limit wattage to a specific number? like "this cpu is limited to only 200 watts". "I've only seen videos that show "-0.070 V", and I've never undervolted a cpu before so this is something very unfamiliar to me.

Thats an entirely (huge) topic for itself. I'd suggest searching for "power limiting intel" or "power limit 13700k" on youtube for more insights, because this also varies somewhat depending on your mainboard, UEFI bios version etc. By default, a lot of mainboards have no limits set, which is actually against the Intel standards, but a lot of manufactures dont seem to care (apparently its some marketing BS trick, which would explain the braindeadness of this approach).

^
If I get the lian li a4-h20, I would likely water cool the 13700k with an ek nucleus 240mm, as I've seen a video where it does exceptionally well in terms of cooling and noise, while being a great lesser priced option. do you have any thoughts on this?
on the other hand, if I get the meshroom S, which can fit a 280mm aio, I feel like the arctic liquid freezer 2 should be the best option, unless you have any others in mind?

The LF II 280 does fit in the Meshlicious / Meshroom S, but you need to be seriously "bendy" (there are a few posts on r/sffpc that show it installed); its mostly because the tubes can be pretty tough to bend and route. Also might not be able to use the 4-slot GPU mode, because the CPU block + tubes are so tall.

What I can recommend, because I've been running this setup for about 4 months, is using the Be Quiet Silent Loop 2 280.
That system was so rock-solid, the SL 2 didnt even bat an eye even at all-core full load (ie. 230ish W).

The only thing I'd do different would be the tube routing, I'd route one of them underneath the mainboard tray (which can be completely removed if required). One would need to take apart half of the case for this, which I didnt do, because I didnt know about it. But it certainly would have made things soooo much easier if I had known that is what everybody meant with "routing the tubes underneath the mainboard tray".

another question, do you think it would be worth switching out the AIO stock fans for something more high-end, such as noctua fans or bequiet fans?
Sure, they can make quite the difference. a lot of sff folks eg. building with the A4-H2O replace their various AIO stock fans with Phanteks T30, which not only are sitting at 30 mm thickness, and ramp up to 3000 rpm, but also are - at least from what I read and heard - much better to fine-tune, esp. in low RPMs.

Reviews include TechPowerUp and STS (a youtube channel notorious for their fan reviews).

The budget-friendly option would be the Arctic P12 Max, which I've used before in my SAMA IM01 (clone) vertical tower build.
It ramps up to 3300 rpm, but is regularly sized, ie. 25 mm thick. And it costs just about 8 Euro per unit.

At 60% that thing can haul some serious amount of air (I've installed it outside the case, and noise levels can get pretty high in open space, so I limited it to 60%). I'm planning to use 2 of them with my future system, on the Silverstone Vida 240 :)

Of corpse, Noctua and Be Quiet are playing in the same league, too. Mostly depends on your goals, preferences and also budget.

last question: in pcpartpicker, with the 13700k, an rtx 3070, 32gb ram, 2tb ssd, it shows that my estimated wattage would be 557W. Would it be too close of a margin if I used an SFX PSU of 600W that is gold rated? or should I go with something higher like a 750W?

thank you for reading!

PCPartPicker only shows you the (minimum and) maximum load, they dont - and also cannot - calculate the mixed load. But in gaming, it'd be normally something like 60 - 70 W for the CPU, and up 80 - 90% for the GPU, plus whatever the rest of the systems adds, but I guess it should stay below 400 W. So you should be all good with a 600W PSU.

Full CPU and GPU load is next to never happening expect in synthetic benchmarks. But also, the gold rating only says something about the efficiency, but not how much the PSU is actually able to handle with sudden spikes. Common values I know of for better PSUs are approx 115 - 120%, so in the case of a good (!) 600 W PSU, this would be 690 - 720 W. But you'd have to look it up specifically for your PSU (tests and reviews should show the real numbers, data sheets only can tell you so much).

cu, w0lf.
 

rfarmer

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You might want to take a look at the new Liquid Freezer III, the tubing no longer comes straight out of the block but has rotating fittings which should make it easier to mount.
 
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hrh_ginsterbusch

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You might want to take a look at the new Liquid Freezer III, the tubing no longer comes straight out of the block but has rotating fittings which should make it easier to mount.
yeah, it just was released today.

geizhals got it listed, but only a few retailers are able to deliver yet. The datasheet is very detailed though, even listing up all the PWM connection data.

but 68 mm is .. even taller than before.

cu, w0lf.
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

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Didn't realize it was that tall, that is too bad.
One might get away with removing the VRM cooler though. Thats something which one wasnt able to do with the LF II, which reduced compatiblity quite a bit.

And with the now "swiveable" tubes one might actually be able to go lower than before. But the requirement for using the Intel CPU contact frame provided by Arctic is a serious no-go for me. Even the clone by Thermalright shows better performance (at least acc. to GN).

cu, w0lf.
 
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