Concept AC-DC PSU In GPU Form Factor

Windfall

Shrink Ray Wielder
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Nov 14, 2017
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Surprised that this hasn't been done before, but I figured I'd get some Ideas from you all if you have any and ask Gury about it.

My personal use case would be in a lone L5, with a wx4100, so that's a single slot low profile PSU, outputting at least 250W.
Not sure if it's possible.

Other sizes would be more possible:
  • ITX length dual slot full height
  • Full length single slot
  • Full Length Dual slot
It would just be an AC-DC Unit at that point, with a DC-ATX Pico unit attached.
If anyone has any ideas that might make this work, tell me, please.

Thanks

(Not looking to sell them, just looking for a personal custom solution and want to get it right, and maybe good enough that someone else can take advantage of it too.)
 

wertigon

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Sep 13, 2019
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I kinda like this idea - it would allow something like a 244 x 244 x 140 + wrapping potential for a brickless mATX case, say 250x250x140, or 8.75L, and the PSU slot could easily accomodate one or even two 3.5" harddrives.

But, the simple answer why it's not done yet, is simply because no case has been designed to accomodate it, though it would be nice to get rid of an extra brick. In that case I'd suggest a 170mm length low-profile card.
 

Windfall

Shrink Ray Wielder
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I kinda like this idea - it would allow something like a 244 x 244 x 140 + wrapping potential for a brickless mATX case, say 250x250x140, or 8.75L, and the PSU slot could easily accomodate one or even two 3.5" harddrives.

But, the simple answer why it's not done yet, is simply because no case has been designed to accomodate it, though it would be nice to get rid of an extra brick. In that case I'd suggest a 170mm length low-profile card.

Gury said a low profile, single slot card was possible @250W!!
 

Lone

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Interesting. Are you planning to fit the WX4100 and an AC-DC PSU sandwiched together? Would you cool both using a front fan or some other way? I guess if Gury follows the PCI expansion card spec there would be a gap between the WX4100 and the PSU. Cool!
 

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
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I've thought it'd be really cool to do a super thin 170 x 170mm PSU and have it do double duty as the motherboard tray.

I've also thought it'd be cool to make a 3D printed plate that fits in a PCIe slot (non conductive) and allows mounting for a couple of merged UHP-200-24 units or something.
 

Windfall

Shrink Ray Wielder
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Nov 14, 2017
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I've thought it'd be really cool to do a super thin 170 x 170mm PSU and have it do double duty as the motherboard tray.

I've also thought it'd be cool to make a 3D printed plate that fits in a PCIe slot (non conductive) and allows mounting for a couple of merged UHP-200-24 units or something.

You have any CAD mouckups of that? It sounds cool!

Interesting. Are you planning to fit the WX4100 and an AC-DC PSU sandwiched together? Would you cool both using a front fan or some other way? I guess if Gury follows the PCI expansion card spec there would be a gap between the WX4100 and the PSU. Cool!

Yeah, they would be sandwiched, and I'm guessing the PSU would be a bit longer, so I could have a hole through the PSU for the WX4100 to catch air.
 

Goatee

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Jun 22, 2018
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I like the idea of a single slot GPU sized AC/DC PSU. If you could make it so it fits under a standard ITX GPU that would be great.

How difficult is selectable voltage output (19v and 12V)? that way it would work with most of the DC/ATX supplies out there.
 

Windfall

Shrink Ray Wielder
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I like the idea of a single slot GPU sized AC/DC PSU. If you could make it so it fits under a standard ITX GPU that would be great.

How difficult is selectable voltage output (19v and 12V)? that way it would work with most of the DC/ATX supplies out there.

I'll ask gury but I'm guessing that would be a lot of extra space.
 

paulesko

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Jul 31, 2019
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I've thought it'd be really cool to do a super thin 170 x 170mm PSU and have it do double duty as the motherboard tray.

I've also thought it'd be cool to make a 3D printed plate that fits in a PCIe slot (non conductive) and allows mounting for a couple of merged UHP-200-24 units or something.

I´ve had this idea also, but I´ve found two problems:
1.- cost, because of the super slim units I´ve found are either expensive or ultraexpensive (ac-dc unit from 170 to 500 euros between 500-700 watts and without filtering of any kind...)
2.- refrigeration, at 91% efficiency peak power (500w) you still have to deal with almost 50 watts of heat... which doesn´t sound good if you put it between the motherboard and the graphics card.

Right now I´m working on a pcb to build a ac-dc unit 500w which could measure around 120 mm x 100 ish mm (maybe more*) x 25-30 mm depending mainly on hold up time calculations and how expensive do I want that cap to be.... Initially I was thinking on a unit that has the footprint of a sfx psu but much slimmer, so you could put it in the same place as the original sfx psu and add a cuple of SSD in the same place, but my guess is that refrigeration is going to be a problem, and I´m willing to build a prototype to try it and see how it holds up being passive cooled.

* Maybe I need more room in here, but depends on the noise measurements we get... hold up time don´t worry me that much, and I´m planning on being lower than the 17 ms that the ATX standard requires, but noise and line voltage regulation are very important and those caps need room....

Because of the room constrains of this idea, I was thinking on doing it thicker but with less foot print, something around... 120 x 70 x 60 mm for a 500w unit. And in this size I think I can even put a 5vsb ac-dc converter so we can plug it to the 2427 and it would work as a normal psu.

BTW with something like 170 x 170 w 25-30 mm I think I could make a 1.000w unit but it would cost a fortune.

I´m already talking to some engineers I know that works on robotics stuff and know how to design a pcb (way better than me) and yesterday we were talking about having something working next month, but honestly I don´t know if I´m going to make more than one because just the parts I have to buy for the 500w ac-dc would cost like 250 euros + designing a cage or something... and a heatsink... so go an figure. It´s very small, but very expensive, In the first place I was doing it for fun, just to learn.

The good thing is that it efficient 93% peak at 60% load and 91% eff. full load, although just 80% eff. at 10% load. The 12v regulation is expected to be within 0.1 % because we have sense wiring on the pcb we are designing, and I think that´s great. Noise is supposed to be around 30 mv max, but thats theoretically talking, I won´t believe until it´s done.
 

Thehack

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I believe Gury already did this and sells them with his case only.

Why not use an off the shelf unit?


For example. .75in height. Make a custom enclosure, coat it with something non conductive. Use a blower fan to keep it slim. Modify the heatsinks to be beefier.

Much easier than making your own AC-DC. The filtering stage can be a separate board that is easily tucked elsewhere.
 
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Windfall

Shrink Ray Wielder
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I believe Gury already did this and sells them with his case only.

I was looking for a low profile single slot one, but I asked him and he's never done one in a GPU form factor.

Why not use an off the shelf unit?


For example. .75in height. Make a custom enclosure, coat it with something non conductive. Use a blower fan to keep it slim. Modify the heatsinks to be beefier.

Much easier than making your own AC-DC. The filtering stage can be a separate board that is easily tucked elsewhere.

I'll add that one to my research list. It looks too big though.
 

Thehack

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I was looking for a low profile single slot one, but I asked him and he's never done one in a GPU form factor.



I'll add that one to my research list. It looks too big though.

It is 3x5. So 76mm x 130mm x 19mm. Ish.

If you include the bracket, a GPU is 125mm x 170mm x 20.3mm for ITX single slot. Remove the bracket and the fingers and you get 125mm x 150mm x 20.3.

So... you can actually squeeze two of these things LOL. It'll probably run hot but that's besides the point. Of course, building a chassis, even if super tight tolerances, will add at least 4mm, so the smallest single one can be is 76mm x 125mm x 23mm. Throw a blower fan on it, and you can get 76mm x 170mm x 23mm.
 

Windfall

Shrink Ray Wielder
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It is 3x5. So 75mm x 130mm. Ish.

If you include the bracket, a GPU is 125mm x 170mm x 20.3mm for ITX single slot. Remove the bracket and the fingers and you get 125mm x 150mm x 20.3. So... you can actually squeeze two of these things LOL. It'll probably run hot but that's besides the point.

No, I meant in a low profile single slot space.

That would work for a full height card for sure though.
 

Windfall

Shrink Ray Wielder
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To fit a LP card, you need at least 80mm internal height. Which fits. 76mm x 125mm. It'd be de-rated though unless you can get some cooling.

For some reason I read that as 7.6"

:/

So how hard is it to get one of those things?
Is it's like any other industrial PSU I've found, it's near impossible
 

Thehack

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For some reason I read that as 7.6"

:/

So how hard is it to get one of those things?
Is it's like any other industrial PSU I've found, it's near impossible

Just search for it on Arrow.com. https://www.arrow.com/en/products/vof-275-12/cui-inc

There is the CUI version. I believe CUI is the OG designer and the EOS may be a reverse engineered design. CUI has been around for a long time.
 

paulesko

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Jul 31, 2019
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Gury could do it.

Probably, but this is more of a leaning travel for me, not so much about just "having" the thing, but the path I have to follow to make it... I don´t know if I´m explaiing myself... Maybe I have to order 10 pcbs or 15 minimum, so I´m nort saying I will not have something to sell later, but it´s going to be very minimal.

Why not use an off the shelf unit?


For example. .75in height. Make a custom enclosure, coat it with something non conductive. Use a blower fan to keep it slim. Modify the heatsinks to be beefier.

Much easier than making your own AC-DC. The filtering stage can be a separate board that is easily tucked elsewhere.

I saw that unit time ago while searching, it´s interesting, but in he end I decided to use this other one because of higher efficiency and its so thin! and also designed to be used without active cooling. The "problem" is that it´s meant to be used on a pcb and all the filtering has to me made... I partly see this as an advantage, because you can decide where to spend resources ( both money and room wise) the problem is that it´s very expensive and for me it´s being difficult to learn many things about psu´s.


theres also this cosel unit that can go up to 700w and has advantajes like paralel working possibilities but it has almost 10% less efficiency... being peak at 88% and typiucal use 83% and I think that´s very difficult to cool passively

And finally the best all round is the tdk lambda with 220 € for the 500w one and 500€ for the 700w one has better efficicncy than the cosel but worse compared to the delta... it can work in paralele also (built in) and also has an on/off feature with and independent built in line which saves a lot of room.

RIght now I´m working with the delta because it´s efficicncy, but the TDK seems very interesting mainly because the on-off feature, that saves a lot of room on the pcb, but the price is the most expensive (the 700w one is on another planet entirely). Both delta and tdk units are base on gan fet technology and it´s why they are so efficient and small at the same time.
 
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kotproger

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Jul 9, 2016
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In general, a cool idea to implement affordable compact power supplies. This is largely not enough for different layouts with a parallel arrangement of components (motherboard and video card on a riser, for example). If there was a cheap option with a thickness of up to 20mm and a power of the order of 300w ....
 
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