CPU [13/12/2024]ASRock DeskMini X600 BIOS "4.04" & "4.06" & "4.08" - with new AMD AGESA ComboAM5Pi v."1.2.0.2a" & DDR5 SO-DIMM Voltage Settings available

[game9370]

hello everyone! thanks to a comment from HydrAxx747 that I came across on reddit I went down the rabbit hole of running a more powerful cpu on a deskmini board. the current idea is running a 9800x3d with some UV mainly for gaming and, when not home (so without an egpu attached via oculink), use the mini pc for media consumption and documents consultation.
I'm still tangled up in the 9800x3d shortage but that should get solved in the upcoming days, so now I'm left with some first setup questions. which is the newest bios version that is worth update to? I haven't turned my machine on yet but I suppose I can't be on anything past the 4.03.
regarding ram, I've acquired a 2x16 6400 kingston fury kit, I suppose speed and timing wise it goes the same as with normal dimm ram, so 6000mhz with tightest timings, correct? has anyone recommendations for an ideal starting point? i guess 6000@cl32 could work, but I haven't got a clue about secondary timings.
for anyone that has been running this board with a non-listed cpu for awhile, do I have to worry about early wear of components? I was thinking of stressing the board without extensive mods in order to highlight any issue (too extreme temps for mosfet's, ram or ssd perhaps) and see what I can improve on. I'd like to keep the stock case but if deep cooling mods are needed then I'll build one myself.

quick recap of components:
deskmini x600
9800x3d
2x16 6400Mhz Kingston Fury
4tb 990pro in the slot on the underside
m.2 to oculink adapter over the wifi card
ax210 wifi/bt card

 

[woofaki]

hello everyone! thanks to a comment from HydrAxx747 that I came across on reddit I went down the rabbit hole of running a more powerful cpu on a deskmini board. the current idea is running a 9800x3d with some UV mainly for gaming and, when not home (so without an egpu attached via oculink), use the mini pc for media consumption and documents consultation.
I'm still tangled up in the 9800x3d shortage but that should get solved in the upcoming days, so now I'm left with some first setup questions. which is the newest bios version that is worth update to? I haven't turned my machine on yet but I suppose I can't be on anything past the 4.03.
regarding ram, I've acquired a 2x16 6400 kingston fury kit, I suppose speed and timing wise it goes the same as with normal dimm ram, so 6000mhz with tightest timings, correct? has anyone recommendations for an ideal starting point? i guess 6000@cl32 could work, but I haven't got a clue about secondary timings.
for anyone that has been running this board with a non-listed cpu for awhile, do I have to worry about early wear of components? I was thinking of stressing the board without extensive mods in order to highlight any issue (too extreme temps for mosfet's, ram or ssd perhaps) and see what I can improve on. I'd like to keep the stock case but if deep cooling mods are needed then I'll build one myself.

quick recap of components:
deskmini x600
9800x3d
2x16 6400Mhz Kingston Fury
4tb 990pro in the slot on the underside
m.2 to oculink adapter over the wifi card
ax210 wifi/bt card

If you are not using an IGPU i would not bother to much with tightening timings....If you see videos in youtube the minimal gains are not worth the trouble.The IGPU that this processor has its only for basic things or very old games,should be just 2cus if im not mistaken.There is also a chance that you will need a bigger power brick than the 120 one to run it as intended.If you still want to give a try with timing tho,you can simple see the previews pages and you will get a clue as to what you need to do.As for the bios you simply go to asrock x600 deskmini page and get the latest one available,you most likely need it in order to use the 9800x3D.As for cooling,even the best low profile one (that fits) Thermalright AXP90-X47 Full wont be easy to cool this one inside this small case...

 

[game9370]

If you are not using an IGPU i would not bother to much with tightening timings....If you see videos in youtube the minimal gains are not worth the trouble.The IGPU that this processor has its only for basic things or very old games,should be just 2cus if im not mistaken.There is also a chance that you will need a bigger power brick than the 120 one to run it as intended.If you still want to give a try with timing tho,you can simple see the previews pages and you will get a clue as to what you need to do.As for the bios you simply go to asrock x600 deskmini page and get the latest one available,you most likely need it in order to use the 9800x3D.As for cooling,even the best low profile one (that fits) Thermalright AXP90-X47 Full wont be easy to cool this one inside this small case...

Thanks for the answer. Updated the bios to 4.03, the 4.08 is said to have removed to option to use a more powerful psu. I'm using a SlimQ 240w psu and the thermalright x47 FC. Everything works fine, other then this issue that I haven't explored on the forum further so excuse me if it has already been discussed and/or solved. The issue I came across is related to PPT. I update the bios, installed Win10 on the ssd and booted into windows. Tried running a simple CinebenchR23 benchmark with HWInfo running and the total cpu power draw was stuck at 87/88W, with temps not even reaching 70° with a very gentle fan speed. Tried going into the bios and playing around with the PBO settings in the advanced overclocking menu and setting the limits to either "motherboard" or "manual" did nothing, whatever the PPT was once in windows Ryzen Master always showed an 88w limit. Out of curiosity I then set the preset PBO in the OC Tweaker menu and problem solved, now the PPT is set at 1000W and the CPU is able to keep a sustained draw of over 100w (starts at 120+ then the 85C limit kicks and the power draw stays between 105 and 115w).
With the 85C and -20 preset I managed to achieve 21638pts in multicore, so around a 1000pts deficit versus what I saw online.
Instead, with the 85C and -30 preset I managed to achieve 22086pts.
As of now, I'm going to be using the system without the case (the x47 actually slightly hits the case and also obstructs the serial port where i would've made the oculink cable go through), when I have some spare time I'll fab one up that houses a couple of 40x10 fans to help reduce heat inside the case.

 

[woofaki]

Thanks for the answer. Updated the bios to 4.03, the 4.08 is said to have removed to option to use a more powerful psu. I'm using a SlimQ 240w psu and the thermalright x47 FC. Everything works fine, other then this issue that I haven't explored on the forum further so excuse me if it has already been discussed and/or solved. The issue I came across is related to PPT. I update the bios, installed Win10 on the ssd and booted into windows. Tried running a simple CinebenchR23 benchmark with HWInfo running and the total cpu power draw was stuck at 87/88W, with temps not even reaching 70° with a very gentle fan speed. Tried going into the bios and playing around with the PBO settings in the advanced overclocking menu and setting the limits to either "motherboard" or "manual" did nothing, whatever the PPT was once in windows Ryzen Master always showed an 88w limit. Out of curiosity I then set the preset PBO in the OC Tweaker menu and problem solved, now the PPT is set at 1000W and the CPU is able to keep a sustained draw of over 100w (starts at 120+ then the 85C limit kicks and the power draw stays between 105 and 115w).
With the 85C and -20 preset I managed to achieve 21638pts in multicore, so around a 1000pts deficit versus what I saw online.
Instead, with the 85C and -30 preset I managed to achieve 22086pts.
As of now, I'm going to be using the system without the case (the x47 actually slightly hits the case and also obstructs the serial port where i would've made the 0oculink cable go through), when I have some spare time I'll fab one up that houses a couple of 40x10 fans to help reduce heat inside the case.

What i did with mine is to remove the back aluminum in order for the hot air to escape easier,cant test it yet tho cause my CPU is still not here.....I assume it will make a difference but how much not sure yet. Personally i find 85c too hot i would not want my cpu to run hotter than 75 at worst.Thankfully you can do that from the bios.I would advice not to touch timings cause it will produce even more heat inside the case with minimal returns...Just use the faster profile and you will be fine.Do you have an external GPU?

 

[nirvana]

hello everyone! thanks to a comment from HydrAxx747 that I came across on reddit I went down the rabbit hole of running a more powerful cpu on a deskmini board. the current idea is running a 9800x3d with some UV mainly for gaming and, when not home (so without an egpu attached via oculink), use the mini pc for media consumption and documents consultation.
I'm still tangled up in the 9800x3d shortage but that should get solved in the upcoming days, so now I'm left with some first setup questions. which is the newest bios version that is worth update to? I haven't turned my machine on yet but I suppose I can't be on anything past the 4.03.
regarding ram, I've acquired a 2x16 6400 kingston fury kit, I suppose speed and timing wise it goes the same as with normal dimm ram, so 6000mhz with tightest timings, correct? has anyone recommendations for an ideal starting point? i guess 6000@cl32 could work, but I haven't got a clue about secondary timings.
for anyone that has been running this board with a non-listed cpu for awhile, do I have to worry about early wear of components? I was thinking of stressing the board without extensive mods in order to highlight any issue (too extreme temps for mosfet's, ram or ssd perhaps) and see what I can improve on. I'd like to keep the stock case but if deep cooling mods are needed then I'll build one myself.

quick recap of components:
deskmini x600
9800x3d
2x16 6400Mhz Kingston Fury
4tb 990pro in the slot on the underside
m.2 to oculink adapter over the wifi card
ax210 wifi/bt card

If you want to modify the original case and money is not a concern, have a look at what I did with the NH-L12Sx77 here https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/asrock’s-x600-deskmini-–-finally-–-again.19619/page-6#post-289110

That solution cools both the CPU and the memory with a single fan, and it fits in the original dimensions except for the height

 

[game9370]

What i did with mine is to remove the back aluminum in order for the hot air to escape easier,cant test it yet tho cause my CPU is still not here.....I assume it will make a difference but how much not sure yet. Personally i find 85c too hot i would not want my cpu to run hotter than 75 at worst.Thankfully you can do that from the bios.I would advice not to touch timings cause it will produce even more heat inside the case with minimal returns...Just use the faster profile and you will be fine.Do you have an external GPU?

Yes I do. As of now I'm still running my old trusty 1070, in the market for a 4080 when they get slightly better price for the usual new release buyout race. I'm using an EXP oculink adapter (the latest one with the redriver, probably supports hot plugging but haven't tried it yet), works like a charm, boot times are insanely fast even without thinkering with the andrenaline drivers I installed for the igpu of the 9800x3d, no error 43 or whatever, hopefully the story doesn't change when I get a newer card.
About the timings, I'll do some research to see how they affects gaming perf on this cpu, that's the only scenario where it interests me, all my other work is "heavy" 3d stuff that isn't quite affected by ram timings.
Regarding the temperature, 83/85 is usually what people limite their ryzen at. I'm coming from a 6600k with a 120mm aio in a full tower with 3 fans and gosh is it louder, even with the calmest fan profile. Even during a 10 min cinebench run the thing wasn't louder then my ac with the fan @2700rpm, that's what they talk about when people say You need to feel it for yourself lol.

 

[game9370]

If you want to modify the original case and money is not a concern, have a look at what I did with the NH-L12Sx77 here https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/asrock’s-x600-deskmini-–-finally-–-again.19619/page-6#post-289110

That solution cools both the CPU and the memory with a single fan, and it fits in the original dimensions except for the height

Thanks for the heads-up. I did explore the idea of using a bigger fan, I bought a 140mm slim fan and although it was definitely quieter (even more then the already dead quiet thermalright one) the results were no where near as good, perhaps I could've got better temps on the ram and vrm side of things. As of now my plan is to get the x53 instead and use a couple of 40x10 fans to create some kind of airflow in a custom case which shouldn't be much bigger, just better layed out. I'm still figuring out stuff tho, I had to place the ssd on the back because the oculink adapter that I got with the kit was hitting the intel part of the back plate of the cooler (could very well cut that off if needed), but I don't like the idea of having to open the case up every time I need to unplug the e-gpu.

 

[woofaki]

Thanks for the heads-up. I did explore the idea of using a bigger fan, I bought a 140mm slim fan and although it was definitely quieter (even more then the already dead quiet thermalright one) the results were no where near as good, perhaps I could've got better temps on the ram and vrm side of things. As of now my plan is to get the x53 instead and use a couple of 40x10 fans to create some kind of airflow in a custom case which shouldn't be much bigger, just better layed out. I'm still figuring out stuff tho, I had to place the ssd on the back because the oculink adapter that I got with the kit was hitting the intel part of the back plate of the cooler (could very well cut that off if needed), but I don't like the idea of having to open the case up every time I need to unplug the e-gpu.

Here is the video to check how much timings matter,it also has your CPU.

 

[game9370]

Here is the video to check how much timings matter,it also has your CPU.

Basically he has shown that x3D chips don't care about ram, nice to know I guess! Thanks again for the help.

 

[Cincyret]

Thanks for the answer. Updated the bios to 4.03, the 4.08 is said to have removed to option to use a more powerful psu. I'm using a SlimQ 240w psu and the thermalright x47 FC. Everything works fine, other then this issue that I haven't explored on the forum further so excuse me if it has already been discussed and/or solved. The issue I came across is related to PPT. I update the bios, installed Win10 on the ssd and booted into windows. Tried running a simple CinebenchR23 benchmark with HWInfo running and the total cpu power draw was stuck at 87/88W, with temps not even reaching 70° with a very gentle fan speed. Tried going into the bios and playing around with the PBO settings in the advanced overclocking menu and setting the limits to either "motherboard" or "manual" did nothing, whatever the PPT was once in windows Ryzen Master always showed an 88w limit. Out of curiosity I then set the preset PBO in the OC Tweaker menu and problem solved, now the PPT is set at 1000W and the CPU is able to keep a sustained draw of over 100w (starts at 120+ then the 85C limit kicks and the power draw stays between 105 and 115w).
With the 85C and -20 preset I managed to achieve 21638pts in multicore, so around a 1000pts deficit versus what I saw online.
Instead, with the 85C and -30 preset I managed to achieve 22086pts.
As of now, I'm going to be using the system without the case (the x47 actually slightly hits the case and also obstructs the serial port where i would've made the oculink cable go through), when I have some spare time I'll fab one up that houses a couple of 40x10 fans to help reduce heat inside the case.

Is it confirmed that BIOS 4.08 will not allow (does not recognize increased PPT, TDC, EDC) power over 88W? Thanks.

 

[game9370]

Is it confirmed that BIOS 4.08 will not allow (does not recognize increased PPT, TDC, EDC) power over 88W? Thanks.

I read that somewhere and honestly I'm not willing to experiment lol
it would definitely suck if this was the latest bios we could upgrade to because of this limitation.

 

[Gamma89]

Good morning,
I installed bios 4.08 and the CPU tests work well with excellent scores.
The problem starts when I try to game and then I use gpu+cpu a lot (8700g 780m) the GPU and RAM clock continuously drops with frequent intervals to 800mhz GPU and 1000mhz RAM.
It appears to be a power limitation but any BIOS setting has no improving effect...
I use a 180w power supply.
Temperatures are not a problem.
Do you have any ideas?

 

[carpler]

Any news about a BIOS update?
After @HydrAxx747 mentioned it in December, reporting that he had let his contact at Asrock know about the performance degradation due to the removal of 'Performance Mode', there has been no more news...
Can we expect an update soon?

 

[nirvana]

Good morning,
I installed bios 4.08 and the CPU tests work well with excellent scores.
The problem starts when I try to game and then I use gpu+cpu a lot (8700g 780m) the GPU and RAM clock continuously drops with frequent intervals to 800mhz GPU and 1000mhz RAM.
It appears to be a power limitation but any BIOS setting has no improving effect...
I use a 180w power supply.
Temperatures are not a problem.
Do you have any ideas?

Install AMD Ryzen Master and check PBO settings in Advanced View, specially power limit (PTT) and current limits (TDC, EDC both CPU and SoC)
I have PTT limit to 65W and current limits pretty much maxed out (CPU TDC = 180A, CPU EDC = 250A, SoC TDC = 30A, SoC EDC = 45A)

There are also other power settings for boosting behaviour named slow PTT and fast PPT, but those are not present in Ryzen Master. You should also check those just in case. You can use a utility like ryzenadj (https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj/releases) to set those limits, I.e. to set all PTT values to 65W use the following commands (input values are in mW):

ryzenadj.exe -a 65000
ryzenadj.exe -b 65000
ryzenadj.exe -c 65000

 

[nirvana]

Any news about a BIOS update?
After @HydrAxx747 mentioned it in December, reporting that he had let his contact at Asrock know about the performance degradation due to the removal of 'Performance Mode', there has been no more news...
Can we expect an update soon?

I tested 4.08 for a while and I didn't experience any performance degradation, but I guess that's because I set PBO settings manually to what I want. As far as I know, the "Performance Mode" on older BIOS was just raising some of the PBO current limits.

 

[Gamma89]

Install AMD Ryzen Master and check PBO settings in Advanced View, specially power limit (PTT) and current limits (TDC, EDC both CPU and SoC)
I have PTT limit to 65W and current limits pretty much maxed out (CPU TDC = 180A, CPU EDC = 250A, SoC TDC = 30A, SoC EDC = 45A)

There are also other power settings for boosting behaviour named slow PTT and fast PPT, but those are not present in Ryzen Master. You should also check those just in case. You can use a utility like ryzenadj (https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj/releases) to set those limits, I.e. to set all PTT values to 65W use the following commands (input values are in mW):

ryzenadj.exe -a 65000
ryzenadj.exe -b 65000
ryzenadj.exe -c 65000

The x600 motherboard has 4 phases of 5 amps for the CPU so the theoretical EDC cannot exceed 200 amps. The SOC has a 50 amp phase to power the GPU apu. With the 4.08 bios I can't go beyond 120 amps EDC while with the 4.03 bios I get to 150 amps ( see HWinfo ). I think this is the reason for the power drop. With bios 4.03 everything is at maximum I touch the 170w from the wall so it's its limit. The total power of my 8700G reaches a maximum of 125 watts so the rest of the energy is dissipated by the motherboard and the other peripherals.

 

[nirvana]

The x600 motherboard has 4 phases of 5 amps for the CPU so the theoretical EDC cannot exceed 200 amps. The SOC has a 50 amp phase to power the GPU apu. With the 4.08 bios I can't go beyond 120 amps EDC while with the 4.03 bios I get to 150 amps ( see HWinfo ). I think this is the reason for the power drop. With bios 4.03 everything is at maximum I touch the 170w from the wall so it's its limit. The total power of my 8700G reaches a maximum of 125 watts so the rest of the energy is dissipated by the motherboard and the other peripherals.

One thing I'd like to note is that apparently the iGPU power delivery of the 8700G is derived from the same rail as the CPU is, as stated by skatterbencher in this article: https://skatterbencher.com/2024/02/09/skatterbencher-70-amd-radeon-780m-overclocked-to-3150-mhz/

VDDCR_GFX provides the voltage for the integrated graphics. In the past, this voltage would be provided by the VDDCR_SOC voltage rail. Still, it’s likely due to the high current requirements of the powerful integrated graphics, using the typically beefier VDDCR voltage plane is safer. The voltage rail can technically work in regular or bypass mode, but only regular mode is available. In regular mode, the voltage is managed by the integrated voltage regulator and derived from the VDDCR voltage rail.

Despite of this, I think that the iGPU current limit is a percentage of what you set on CPU TDC/EDC, since HWinfo sometimes reports GPU being current limited despite CPU TDC/EDC being nowhere near their maximum ratings. Increasing CPU TDC/EDC limits greatly reduces how often the GPU is held back due to current limit being triggered, resulting in a measurable performance improvement.

I can't find public information about what exactly limits the iGPU, so all I can do is test and speculate.

I'm not too worried about setting 250A EDC since this is just for short periods of time (which afaik is fine for power stages); for long periods of time TDC applies.

I set CPU EDC/TDC limits on windows with ryzenadj, maybe doing it that way is different than setting it on BIOS and that's why I didn't notice a performance difference between 4.03 and 4.08 but I must admit that I didn't test 4.08 thoroughly for performance.