Concept Why don't we use Modular PSUs as external bricks?

Sp4m

Minimal Tinkerer
Original poster
Oct 10, 2018
3
0
In the interest of reducing chassis size and weight, some people opt to use DC power supplies with external bricks. This is an appealing option, but it's expensive and the tech is rather niche.

Is there a reason people don't just use modular power supplies as external bricks?
 

Windfall

Shrink Ray Wielder
SFFn Staff
Nov 14, 2017
2,117
1,584
In the interest of reducing chassis size and weight, some people opt to use DC power supplies with external bricks. This is an appealing option, but it's expensive and the tech is rather niche.

Is there a reason people don't just use modular power supplies as external bricks?

@MarcParis Has, I think. Just a lot of cables, so you need a HUGE cutout.
 

VegetableStu

Shrink Ray Wielder
Aug 18, 2016
1,949
2,619
exposed fan intakes and live power connections I'd think ._. I mean I'd put it away from the floor but I worry about spilling into it
 

MarcParis

Spatial Philosopher
Apr 1, 2016
3,671
2,784
In the interest of reducing chassis size and weight, some people opt to use DC power supplies with external bricks. This is an appealing option, but it's expensive and the tech is rather niche.

Is there a reason people don't just use modular power supplies as external bricks?

@MarcParis Has, I think. Just a lot of cables, so you need a HUGE cutout.
It’s easy to use modular external sfx psu. I used one for my r9 nano build in my former s4 mini..:)
In terms of passthrough you can simply remove mb i/o shield.
Check my s4 mini build if interested
 

Windfall

Shrink Ray Wielder
SFFn Staff
Nov 14, 2017
2,117
1,584
It’s easy to use modular external sfx psu. I used one for my r9 nano build in my former s4 mini..:)
In terms of passthrough you can simply remove mb i/o shield.
Check my s4 mini build if interested

Thanks! And sorry about the ping!
 

Sp4m

Minimal Tinkerer
Original poster
Oct 10, 2018
3
0
Thanks for the replies! Glad to see this has been tried.
That S4 mini is a pretty slick case, once you work out power issues.
 

Lindkvist

Cable Smoosher
Oct 8, 2018
9
8
Kids. Wouldn't dare have an external one. Well you could build a stylish enclosure that match your case and hides away somewhere around the desk
 

el01

King of Cable Management
Jun 4, 2018
770
588
I would say size frankly. Maybe it's because I'm still on ATX power supplies. Even then, an SFX unit is still rather big...
 

teisysadmin

Caliper Novice
Oct 15, 2018
26
20
I'm actually doing something similar very soon. Like other posters said, your pc needs many different voltages, and your GPU / CPU draw a lot of current. High current either means very thick, bulky wires, or many smaller wires in parallel, this is why high end GPUs need multiple 8 pin connectors which both have the same pinout / voltages.

One solution which I think is regrettably overlooked by most of the community is 12V DC-DC adapters. People get put off when they see that the Pico PSUs are rated for <200W, but the wattage rating on those pico units doesn't really tell the full story. When you're bringing in 12V as a source, the Pico PSU only has to provide +3.3, +5, possibly -12, and a handful of signals. That 160W rating only applies to those voltages, which your computer doesn't use much anyway. 12V power can be passed through a switch to your CPU and GPU, which are the main consumers of power in your system. I don't know whether the Pico unit passes the 12V power through quite like this, or if its electronics can stand up to high current draw, but Gury makes a unit which can and does. Gury's G-Unique PSU is a tiny little board that plugs into your mobo with some additional connectors dangling off. It's extremely space efficient, and it's only limited by the power your external brick can supply. 19V solutions, on the other hand, have to transform all of the power your system consumes, and are limited by both the external brick and internal converter.

Personally, I was happy to pay Gury a premium to prepare a kit for me and was glad to wait a month for it to arrive because I spend enough time working with electronics at my 9-5 and I wanted my initial build to be low stress. Plus, I had to wait a while for other parts to arrive anyway / was traveling a lot so it made sense at the time.

However, you can DIY a 12V DC-DC system pretty easily. Snag a used HP server PSU off newegg or ebay for ~$50 and a picoPSU 160xt for another ~$50. You'll need to find the 12V rails on the PSU, solder on some heavy gauge wire (the exact size depends on your system requirements), crimp on some connectors for entrance into the case, and install your Pico PSU. Then all you need is a 12V relay driven off of the 4 pin CPU connector to allow power to flow to the GPU. I've thought about possibly designing a little PCB to make this process simpler for other users but the project fell by the wayside when I found out I could by a complete kit.

I'm going to buy one of those HP PSUs soon because my G-Unique power brick gets hotter than I would like when I play games for a long period of time. Once I've cobbled together a power brick from that PSU I'll post a little guide regarding that component and then maybe if I have the time I'll design a little board with the 12V input connector, a couple 8 pin PCIe connectors, a relay, and a terminal block then order a hundred or so that I can ship to people who are interested in 12V solutions.
 

Thehack

Spatial Philosopher
Creator
Mar 6, 2016
2,812
3,670
J-hackcompany.com
Running a solid state relay does not work correctly all the time.

If the 12V rail is all connected, which I am not sure applies for all motherboard, the residual power will mean solid relay gets latched and does not turn off when the pc is off. This ends up defeating the purpose of the relay.
 

teisysadmin

Caliper Novice
Oct 15, 2018
26
20
Running a solid state relay does not work correctly all the time.

If the 12V rail is all connected, which I am not sure applies for all motherboard, the residual power will mean solid relay gets latched and does not turn off when the pc is off. This ends up defeating the purpose of the relay.

Does the pico supply +12V to its integrated CPU connector when the pc is off?
 

Thehack

Spatial Philosopher
Creator
Mar 6, 2016
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Does the pico supply +12V to its integrated CPU connector when the pc is off?

It doesn't. It shuts off 12V rail, However, sometimes when you turn it off, the CAPs are discharging still, so it puts +12V potential on the 12V rail. You'd need the signal for the relay to come from the controller itself, which would ensure it works 100% of the time. Note this issue doesn't always happen.
 

Pianoarg

Case Bender
Jun 1, 2019
2
0
Could be a good/bad idea build a external brick with a Meanwell epp-300-12 with a proper encluser? Using a PicoPSU
 

Thehack

Spatial Philosopher
Creator
Mar 6, 2016
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Could be a good/bad idea build a external brick with a Meanwell epp-300-12 with a proper encluser? Using a PicoPSU

Yes. But the main issue is liability. If you see an AC device on the market, the liability becomes much higher. External switch power supply are also expected to be insulated which increases the cost to make an enclosure. Meanwell already sells one and it's huge because it is fully passive and insulated properly.

One can probably side step by making a "kit" that is the end user is liable for the use of the psu. Like a 3d printed one or a simple metal enclosure. If the user must assembles it, the user is generally responsible for the safety of their own assembly.

The other issue is that the retail cost to make such a kit would likely exceed the costs of off the shelf parts already available. You have to have a big enough market, with good enough margins, to make large enough quantity, to sell it at retail.

But it is not something impossible.
 

Obakemono

Trash Compacter
Jan 20, 2019
49
33
50 plus pin cannon plug. Build the harness for the internal wires, terminate in the case with one end and build the harness to the PSU to the other end.

O

As an example: Pins 1-24 = 24pin connector, pins 25-29 = +12v EPS wires, pins 30-33 EPS grounds, pins 34-37 = +12v PCIe power, pins 38-41 PCIe grounds, pins 42-46 SATA power, the rest of the pins grounds or power if needed.
 
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Pianoarg

Case Bender
Jun 1, 2019
2
0
Yes. But the main issue is liability. If you see an AC device on the market, the liability becomes much higher. External switch power supply are also expected to be insulated which increases the cost to make an enclosure. Meanwell already sells one and it's huge because it is fully passive and insulated properly.

One can probably side step by making a "kit" that is the end user is liable for the use of the psu. Like a 3d printed one or a simple metal enclosure. If the user must assembles it, the user is generally responsible for the safety of their own assembly.

The other issue is that the retail cost to make such a kit would likely exceed the costs of off the shelf parts already available. You have to have a big enough market, with good enough margins, to make large enough quantity, to sell it at retail.

But it is not something impossible.
I understand your point about how market works, I was thinking more in a diy project.
I have a case very similar to Inwin Chopin running a new ryzen 3600 and a GTX1050 powered by a Picopsu 160xt and a 190w brick from minibox and it doesn't seems to be powerful enough (PC shuts down at full load), I want to keep SFF, that's why i'm considering this idea.
 

Thehack

Spatial Philosopher
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Mar 6, 2016
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I understand your point about how market works, I was thinking more in a diy project.
I have a case very similar to Inwin Chopin running a new ryzen 3600 and a GTX1050 powered by a Picopsu 160xt and a 190w brick from minibox and it doesn't seems to be powerful enough (PC shuts down at full load), I want to keep SFF, that's why i'm considering this idea.

The 160xt likely can't handle the high peaky level of the 3600. The meanwell 220w external psu and a higher spec Pico should fix powering your build. The official 160xt spec on the 12v rail isn't very good.


But yeah, to make it yourself, just 3D model it and print it. It just has holes for the power entry and the power wiring going out.
 
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graphichasan

Average Stuffer
Jun 26, 2019
63
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The 160xt likely can't handle the high peaky level of the 3600. The meanwell 220w external psu and a higher spec Pico should fix powering your build. The official 160xt spec on the 12v rail isn't very good.

But yeah, to make it yourself, just 3D model it and print it. It just has holes for the power entry and the power wiring going out.

Hey guys nice Idea .... I think the main issue may be power limit of pico-psu 160W/hdplex 400W with the cost associated with it ...... I have a related concept project of powering 800W dc-dc from sfx-psu ..... when the power limit & cost is not a factor a good design of module sfx psu may be a ultimate power-brick for small but powerful system .... You may check out my project to find more ...

Project Thindercreck
Project Thindercreck | 800W capable Hdplex alternative with pico-psu adopter
Project Thindercreck | Mini 6L awsome workstation for everyone