Memory Which memory is the best?

[Dawelio]

Hello everyone,

So I've been having a bit of thinking and now I need to ask you all for a more knowledgeable decision making.

I'm currently on an 3700X and may go for the next generation Ryzen CPUs when they come out later in the year.

I am planning on upgrading to the MSI MAG B550 MORTAR motherboard as well soon and with it some new memory.

Although here my issue, I don't know much about speeds and latency when it comes to memory. I'm currently on 3200MHz, but have heard that 3600MHz is the "sweet spot" when it comes to Ryzen.

I'm planning on the G.Skill Trident Z Royal memory with 4 x 8GB, for a total of 32GB.

I'm just not sure what would be better, 3200 or 3600 speeds?

Since the latter is a bit more expensive obviously. But does the extra 400Mhz really do much in terms of raw perfomance when it comes to every day use, such as browsing the web, movie streaming and the occassional Photoshopping and gaming?

How much a difference does the timings do really as well? Between CL16 and CL14? The price tag differs a lot between these 2, but I have literally no idea what they really do and how much they really make on a daily basis for the overall performance. Is it really worth going for the tighter timings or not?

Thanks,
Dawelio

 

[thelaughingman]

My understanding is that it all comes down to latency in nanoseconds, which is calcualted based on speed (3200/3600MHz etc.) and CAS Latency (CL16/17/18/19). I don't know the math but found this handy tool https://notkyon.moe/ram-latency.htm

You'd want to lowest possible latency value. The sweetspot that people are talking about is actually 10ns, which is either 3200MHz CL16 (which I'm using) or 3600MHz CL18. If you could find a 3600MHz CL16 kit then it would perform better than 3200MHz CL16 for sure, by how much I don't have a way to measure.

Hope this helps somehow!

EDIT: also this article from Micron/Crucial for reference https://www.crucial.com/articles/about-memory/difference-between-speed-and-latency#:~:text=To%20calculate%20a%20module's%20latency,total%20number%20of%20clock%20cycles.

 

[MyNam31sNobody]

I have a Trident Z 2x16 3200 CL14 kit that I very easily overclocked to 3600 CL14, and there's definitely more in there to squeeze out of it. That's a solid b-die kit, and you can't go wrong with it. That'd be my recommendation. So for 4x8 it'd be this kit, which is $240: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/H4...-4-x-8gb-ddr4-3200-memory-f4-3200c14q-32gtzsw

If RGB is a must have, you can get the regular G.Skil Trident Z RGB for a $40 RGB tax. The Trident Z Royal of the same kit is $85 for RGB+bling tax.

 

[AlexTSG]

I recently looked into all of this before buying my Ryzen 3600, and found this video by Hardware Unboxed:


Here are a few things to know from all kinds of videos, articles, and forum posts:

Recommendations that apply to Intel processors do NOT apply to AMD Ryzen. Intel benefits from higher memory speed more.

For real world performance you want your Fabric Clock and Memory Clock to be the the same (1:1). This is where the “sweet spot” come from. 3600MHz equates to an 1800MHz clock speed (Actual DDR clock speed is half the listed speed), which is generally the fastest most Ryzen CPUs can get to. Some Ryzens may be able to overclock to 1900MHz if you get lucky.

Higher memory speeds and tighter (lower) timings generally benefit games at lower resolutions and quality settings most. If you’re running a GeForce 2080 Ti and trying to cap out your 360Hz 1080p monitor it’s going to make a difference. 1440p or 4K gaming at Ultra settings will see very little difference.

Production workloads generally care more about how much memory you have, not how fast it is.

If you halve the first 2 digits of your memory speed, this will give you the CL rating that most reasonable modules should have. Lower that that is good, but you’ll normally pay a lot for it.

I’ve just ended up going for 32GB of 3733MHz Non-RGB HyperX Fury for my build. Mainly as I need 32GB and the 3733MHz was only $5 more than 3600MHz, and I’ve had good experiences with Kingston HyperX in the past.

 

[tinyitx]

Long answer:- read this article. If you want a shorter answer, just read the conclusion.

AMD Ryzen RAM scaling - performance effect in games

The impact of memory timings and frequency on AMD Ryzen 3000 systems in games has been a topic of discussion. In this artilcle we'll zoom in on specifically that. See, AMD made a change in 3rd gener... Final Words & Conclusion

www.guru3d.com

Short answer:- 3200 CL14 or 3600 CL16.

Frankly, when you look at the gaming framerate gain which might seems big (eg 10 fps), but you are talking about 130 fps vs 140 fps and I just do not think it is very noticeable to your eyes between these 2 framerates.

Also, there is the money factor. Sometimes, if you just go up one frequency step, the price increase is non-linerar. It is just not proportional. So, I think the real 'sweet spot' must be when you find the performance vs price curve begins to level off.

 

[Dawelio]

Thank you all for your inputs, very nice and informal information that you've all given and the amount of contribution is awesome to see! One of the many reasons I love this community in particular!

So from my understand, it's either of these 2 kits then basically?:

G.Skill Trident Z Royal DDR4-3200 C14 QC - Silver - 32GB | Billig

4 227,00 kr Minne (RAM), 32 GB: 4 x 8 GB (Quad Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR4, 3200 MHz / PC4-25600, CL14-14-14-34, 1.35 V, ej buffrad, icke ECC, Silver - G.Skill Trident Z Royal-serien med inbyggt RGB LED-ljus - är ASUS AURA-kompatibel och kan därmed styras av ASUS AURA-mjukvara! .

www.proshop.se

G.Skill Trident Z Royal DDR4-3600 C16 QC - Silver - 32GB | Billig

4 568,00 kr Minne (RAM), 32 GB: 4 x 8 GB (Quad Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR4, 3600 MHz / PC4-28800, CL16-16-16-36, 1.35 V, ej buffrad, icke ECC, Silver - G.Skill Trident Z Royal-serien <strong>Collector Edition</strong> med inbyggt RGB LED-ljus - är ASUS AURA-kompatibel och kan därmed styras av...

www.proshop.se

I'll most likely go with the 3600 CL16, due to it being a bit cheaper (?) for some reason and as far as my understanding goes, 3600 seems to be the "sweet spot" when it comes to Ryzen. I'm aslo not sure how it will be in price though once I may pull the trigger in a month or two, due to the case I'm looking at hasn't released yet and the new Ryzen CPUs aren't out yet either. So for now I'm just exploring my options basically.

Obviously no one knows how this will affect and/or be in terms of the new Ryzen line up coming later this year. Hence my a abit of unsureness and hence this thread.

 

[thelaughingman]

@Dawelio maybe lookup what IC chip that those sticks have? If you want to future proof against Zen 3 aka Ryzen 4xxx, may want to consider some 3800/4000 kit too

 

[MyNam31sNobody]

I'll most likely go with the 3600 CL16, due to it being a bit cheaper (?) for some reason and as far as my understanding goes, 3600 seems to be the "sweet spot" when it comes to Ryzen.

It's cheaper because the 3600 isn't b-die and the 3200 is.

 

[Dawelio]

How do you look which one is a "b-die" and which one would be better off going with then? 3200 or 3600?....

 

[AlexTSG]

How do you look which one is a "b-die" and which one would be better off going with then? 3200 or 3600?....

If you check for your memory kit on the QVL (Qualified Vendor List) for the MSI MAG B550 MORTAR, then you'll see it has a "Chipset" column. This will tell you what type of memory ICs the module is using.

MSI MAG B550M MORTAR WIFI AMD AM4 DDR4 CF Lightning Gen 4 M.2 USB 3.2 Gen 2 HDMI WiFi6 mATX Gaming Motherboard

Powered by AMD Ryzen AM4 processors, the MSI MAG B550M MORTAR WiFi inspired by the military armor design, tuned for better performance by Core boost, DDR4 Boost, WiFi 6, Lightning Gen 4 M.2 with M.2 Shied, 2oz copper PCB

www.msi.com

Samsung B-die is listed as Samsung 5WB.

The actual performance you get depends on many different variables, such as your motherboard, the memory controller in your CPU, and how lucky you get with the particular modules you buy.

However, certain manufacturers ICs are known to be good for different types of tuning. Good Samsung B-die is normally expensive as it can run much higher than it's rated JEDEC speed (Listed as SPD Speed on the MSI QVL). Other memory types may be good at running at low voltages, or very high clock speeds, or tighter timings.

I've gone with some HyperX Fury 3733MHz (Hynix D-die) as it has XMP profiles for 3600MHz at tighter timings, but I should be able to run it faster with loose timings, or tighten the timings up at 3600MHz or lower. I also don't want to have to run my voltage higher than 1.35V for daily use (1.2V is the JEDEC DDR4 standard voltage).

There's a huge amount of information out there on memory tuning, and it can be a bit overwhelming, so I'd suggest getting something that you'll be happy with if it only runs at it's rated speed and timings, and that's available at a price you're happy to spend.

For peace of mind I'd check it's listed on the QVL too, as you then know that the motherboard manufacturer has actually tested the model of memory you plan to buy.

 

[MyNam31sNobody]

How do you look which one is a "b-die" and which one would be better off going with then? 3200 or 3600?....

I use this tool a lot https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/

But also just researching feedback from people who have bought kits before.

Personally, I'd opt for the 3200. But you'll be fine either way.

 

[Dawelio]

My understanding is that it all comes down to latency in nanoseconds, which is calcualted based on speed (3200/3600MHz etc.) and CAS Latency (CL16/17/18/19). I don't know the math but found this handy tool https://notkyon.moe/ram-latency.htm

You'd want to lowest possible latency value. The sweetspot that people are talking about is actually 10ns, which is either 3200MHz CL16 (which I'm using) or 3600MHz CL18. If you could find a 3600MHz CL16 kit then it would perform better than 3200MHz CL16 for sure, by how much I don't have a way to measure.

Hope this helps somehow!

EDIT: also this article from Micron/Crucial for reference https://www.crucial.com/articles/about-memory/difference-between-speed-and-latency#:~:text=To%20calculate%20a%20module's%20latency,total%20number%20of%20clock%20cycles.

I have a Trident Z 2x16 3200 CL14 kit that I very easily overclocked to 3600 CL14, and there's definitely more in there to squeeze out of it. That's a solid b-die kit, and you can't go wrong with it. That'd be my recommendation. So for 4x8 it'd be this kit, which is $240: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/H4...-4-x-8gb-ddr4-3200-memory-f4-3200c14q-32gtzsw

If RGB is a must have, you can get the regular G.Skil Trident Z RGB for a $40 RGB tax. The Trident Z Royal of the same kit is $85 for RGB+bling tax.

Long answer:- read this article. If you want a shorter answer, just read the conclusion.

AMD Ryzen RAM scaling - performance effect in games

The impact of memory timings and frequency on AMD Ryzen 3000 systems in games has been a topic of discussion. In this artilcle we'll zoom in on specifically that. See, AMD made a change in 3rd gener... Final Words & Conclusion

www.guru3d.com

Short answer:- 3200 CL14 or 3600 CL16.

Frankly, when you look at the gaming framerate gain which might seems big (eg 10 fps), but you are talking about 130 fps vs 140 fps and I just do not think it is very noticeable to your eyes between these 2 framerates.

Also, there is the money factor. Sometimes, if you just go up one frequency step, the price increase is non-linerar. It is just not proportional. So, I think the real 'sweet spot' must be when you find the performance vs price curve begins to level off.

Hello everyone again,

I'm bumping this thread again, seeing as I managed to find an 32GB (4 x 8GB) kit at 3600MHz with Cl14, rather than CL16.

Now after reading all of your comments, the comparison is this in money:

CL14: 4 899 kr

CL16: 4 299 kr

Which is 600 kr difference, and that is roughly $66 difference. This is just the difference in the CL timings.

Should I/is it worth going for the CL14 over the CL16 in this regard? It's a pretty hefty price difference, although I'm thinking long term wise. Maybe it would be worth it? Especially considering I'll be getting an new potential 4700X ie Zen 3?

What do you all think? And what would you do in my situation?...

 

[PLLovervoltage]

Performance/Price not worth it imo.

At 3600, cl14 is about 7.78ns latency and cl16 is 8.88ns. There's other important variables to consider but real performance typically scales much less than linearly from latency. Even if the 13% latency decrease translated to a direct absurd 13% performance increase at 3x the price nowhere worth it imo. I'm also thinking deciding whether to upgrade now or wait for zen 3 but I don't think zen 3 will change the importance much.

 

[Dawelio]

Performance/Price not worth it imo.

At 3600, cl14 is about 7.78ns latency and cl16 is 8.88ns. There's other important variables to consider but real performance typically scales much less than linearly from latency. Even if the 13% latency decrease translated to a direct absurd 13% performance increase at 3x the price nowhere worth it imo. I'm also thinking deciding whether to upgrade now or wait for zen 3 but I don't think zen 3 will change the importance much.

Thanks a lot for your input here, I ordered the CL16 kit variant. Due to your post and feeling the same way really.

Didn’t want to spend that much extra when in reality, 3600 vs 3200 probably has a higher impact than CL16 vs CL14.

 

[Mopar63]

Actually impact of 3200 vs 3600 and the various CL settings outside of benchmarks is negligible. I can build you a Ryzen 3700X with all components identical except RAM, and during game play you would NEVER be able to be certain which was 3200 or 3600.