Traveling Retro Gamer - Brickless S4M w/ 7600K, 1070

[Thehack]

Ah - so likely would be required then. I guess the GST has it too, but at least with a bit more extra wiring post-ferrite core, so that'd work.

I wouldn't use the C8 power cord. It is not designed to handle that much current. That and an unaware person might hook it up to AC and fry your rig.

If you are using an external brick, and you have the dynamo 360, you can also get the 20V version. The GST series is incredibly hardy and high quality.

 

[Choidebu]

Aren't there a bunch of pics just a few responses above...? . I can post more, no worries, but right now, it's standard S4M from the outside.

I think the limiting factor is the MeanWell only - I do have the 360+160 from KMPKT for the dc-dc side..

Yeah see that's the problem, I didn't see any dynamo 360 unit in the pics, it just looks like you only have the mini, as your first post stated.

Yeah in that case it's just like you said it is your brick that's the bottleneck.

I'm not sure where exactly I'd fit that second ac-dc unit... There's virtually no room left in the case.

Oh, and @Choidebu : mind expanding on what "acbels" is...?

It's a brand of switching power supplies manufacturer like MeanWell. They have some small open frame types. Like meanwell's epp and rps seriea, the models up to 200W is usually 4"x2" (102x501?) and 30mm tall. Can fit in the front of the case alright. But yes if you already have dynamo 360 there...

I wouldn't use the C8 power cord. It is not designed to handle that much current. That and an unaware person might hook it up to AC and fry your rig.

Seconded this. Didn't you still have the circular cutout intact? Can't you mount a barrel socket there? The one that comes with the dynamo?

 

[SilverJS]

I wouldn't use the C8 power cord. It is not designed to handle that much current. That and an unaware person might hook it up to AC and fry your rig.

If you are using an external brick, and you have the dynamo 360, you can also get the 20V version. The GST series is incredibly hardy and high quality.

LOL! Hadn't even given that possibility any thought, but you're right - especially if I take this computer on stage, like I'm planning to - some stagehand could totally fry the unit. OK, good point if I ever saw one!

So, MOAR PICS :


You can see that it's likely I can just hack off the bottom bit of the C8 connector to give me back full access to the barrel connector (might have to jerry-rig something to make it nice and secure, but whatever). At least, I THINK I could. The problem, though, is that if I go barrel, I'm now totally restricted to the Dell brick, right? I know the GST can be purchased with different connectors but I don't recall seeing a simple barrel one amongst the options, unless I missed something.

 

[Thehack]

LOL! Hadn't even given that possibility any thought, but you're right - especially if I take this computer on stage, like I'm planning to - some stagehand could totally fry the unit. OK, good point if I ever saw one!

So, MOAR PICS :


You can see that it's likely I can just hack off the bottom bit of the C8 connector to give me back full access to the barrel connector (might have to jerry-rig something to make it nice and secure, but whatever). At least, I THINK I could. The problem, though, is that if I go barrel, I'm now totally restricted to the Dell brick, right? I know the GST can be purchased with different connectors but I don't recall seeing a simple barrel one amongst the options, unless I missed something.

You can get someone to make a female 6 pin to male 6 pin.

The dynamo 360 takes 6pin input.

Obviously you'll need the correct pinouts but something similar to the above. The C6P connector is the same type that PCs use.

 

[SilverJS]

You can get someone to make a female 6 pin to male 6 pin.

The dynamo 360 takes 6pin input.

Obviously you'll need the correct pinouts but something similar to the above. The C6P connector is the same type that PCs use.

Ah, I see - but then, the power cord is just fished through a hole of some sort in the Mini, kind of like the owner did in this Mini ? :

https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/skyreach-s4-mini-with-meanwell-200-watt-internal-psu.9779/

 

[SilverJS]

But, but but but but...wait a second. @Choidebu just gave me an idea, methinks...

So. Assuming the 12v UHP's dimensions are the same as the 24V's (I'll check on that shortly - EDIT : they are, exact same), I could :

1. Connect the 12v UHP direct to the GPU;
2. Replace the 360 Dynamo with another, small ~100W or so AC-DC MeanWell or some such, which would feed the 160 Dynamo for mobo/CPU (assuming, and that's the biggest assumption I think that one can be made to fit);
3. Have the C8 connector feed both AC-DC units, just solder two wires per input pin.

If I'm right, that would solve all my problems and allow me to remain brickless. Am I missing something?

 

[Thehack]

I 3d printed a snap in slot for it. I'll take a picture when I get a chance.

I am not a fan of using two different rails, especially two separate rails that don't talk to each other. You get load balancing issues and possible current flow between the two rails.

 

[SilverJS]

Ok, got it. This printout - goes in the normal C8 slot, I'd assume...?

 

[Thehack]

Yup.

Though, I don't recommend this design for 12V. I'll be changing the design where the connector is mostly outside of the cutout. so it can change angle.

 

[Choidebu]

But, but but but but...wait a second. @Choidebu just gave me an idea, methinks...

So. Assuming the 12v UHP's dimensions are the same as the 24V's (I'll check on that shortly - EDIT : they are, exact same), I could :

1. Connect the 12v UHP direct to the GPU;
2. Replace the 360 Dynamo with another, small ~100W or so AC-DC MeanWell or some such, which would feed the 160 Dynamo for mobo/CPU (assuming, and that's the biggest assumption I think that one can be made to fit);
3. Have the C8 connector feed both AC-DC units, just solder two wires per input pin.

If I'm right, that would solve all my problems and allow me to remain brickless. Am I missing something?

Correct. This is a build that uses dual psu, hdplex 160 for cpu side and uhp-200-12 for gpu side. It does use load switch to control both psu so they both turn on and off at roughly the same time.

He mounted it at the front by moving the power button to the back.

My suggestions, if you can:

1. Fit a 4x2, 30 mm tall 100-150W psu AND dynamo 360.
2. Your current Uhp-200-24 connects to dynamo 360, feeding gpu.
3. The new smaller psu to dynamo 160
4. Sync both dynamo 360 and 160 with a sync cable.

The first one would be the biggest challenge.

I'd love to reccommend hdplex 400W brick, but alas, it's not here yet and it's too tall to fit with your gpu (40mm vs meanwell's 26mm), and mounting it to the front prob won't work unless you cut your gpu shroud.

Oh, if you want to see what these 4x2 psus look like, see this, he uses two 200W of these psus, open frame none the less, sync them with load switch. Not reccommended unless you kmow what you're doing.

 

[Choidebu]

A bit unrelated, but skimming petricor's thread I found one bit from @cstein08 who crammed uhp-200 in S4M-C. I thought it was too tall all this time, that S4M got taller by 2mm somehow... can't believe I missed that bit.

Now it gives me ideas...

 

[SilverJS]

The only place I could have fit a smaller power supply is where the power button currently sits - but, if I'm to keep the 360, there's no room at all. The cables jutting left and right out of the dynamo see to that. Even then, I'm not sure I could fit a 4x2 unit there.

Incidentally, I had a chance to play a couple of hours this afternoon, at 75% power limit - for real this time. Seems like, the last times, my 75% hadn't "taken", so to speak...it was still defaulting to 80% after restarts. That's on me, should have checked and not assumed...but anyway, no issues today, and the computer was decidedly cooler...so I might be able to make the current setup work.

Otherwise, looks like it's a Dell brick...

 

[BrotherStein]

A bit unrelated, but skimming petricor's thread I found one bit from @cstein08 who crammed uhp-200 in S4M-C. I thought it was too tall all this time, that S4M got taller by 2mm somehow... can't believe I missed that bit.

Now it gives me ideas...

Yeah, I believe the OP of that thread fit the uhp-200 in his S4M (skyreach) perfectly. The S4M-C, however, is a different story. I had to file down certain parts of it, but it works fine.

 

[Choidebu]

Yeah man thanks for that! Now if only I can find uhp-200s for less than 100 aud...

 

[SilverJS]

Well - after all that, it seems that my 75% power limit has solved it. No more issues, not one bit - and I've even made it to Skellige in Witcher 3, which I've read is still one of the toughest GPU tests out there to test an overclock/undervolt. All was well, no power cycles, and the computer was noticeably cooler to the touch too - although still pretty warm, but I was really surprised at the difference between 80% and 75% power limits.

I'll wait out and see, but looks like I might not need that brick after all.

 

[SilverJS]

Yep, all looks good at 75%, +130 clock, +400 memory. Superpositon was 8631 (vice 8868 stock), so 97% of stock performance - totally happy with that. I think it stays! In the meantime, installed my two 500GB 860's (did I mention that yet...?), transfered the contents of my old Seagate to one of them, and now started transferring all of my studio stuff (Ableton Live, plugins, projects, etc.) to the second hard drive. That's like 90% done now - so, I think I can call this project a wrap!

(Famous last words...)

 

[SilverJS]

Yeah, about that 'last words' bit...=)

So I've been going back-and-forth on this, and I came THIS close to pulling the trigger on an S401 to give me access to bigger GPU's (for silence) and bigger power supply components...but after tinkering with some fan settings and such, and doing yet more research, I now think I can have my cake and eat it too : keep the Mini, have (relative) silence, and even stay brickless! So, plan for the next iteration of this project :

1. Keep the 1070, but power it exclusively off of a MeanWell. Mine is a 24V so I'll have to get another one (UHP-200-12);
1.5. Replace the stock Zotac fans on the GPU with Noctua items;
2. Add a separate AC-DC unit (likely MeanWell RPS or EPP - more on this in a bit) to power the Mobo and CPU via the KMPKT 160. This unit would take the physical space in the case of the KMPKT 360. This will allow me to use a more powerful processor - I'll just upgrade to a 6700K for now (which Ableton Live will appreciate), but I should be set for the long run with this setup. I'll just have two sets of wires coming off of my C6 connector, one for each MeanWell. I've seen enough dual-brick setups now on here to believe it's workable.

Parts 1 and 1.5 are fairly straightforward. The magic is in part 2. Luckily for me, @aquelito has ONE switch remaining, and it has my name on it. =) So that's good. I have a few questions though, if I may, for some of the experts here :

1. What exactly is the difference between the RPS and EPP series from MeanWell? The uncovered RPS looks to me to be the exact same as the EPP from what I can tell. I'd rather get the RPS because it can be had with a cover (which I would get), but just curious;
1.5. With the RPS, I have the option of going 15V, or 24V. If I'm feeding @Kmpkt 's 160 unit, should I undershoot its 19V (go for the 15) or overshoot (go for the 24) or is there a difference?
2. @Thehack, I just saw, has some wonderful output harnesses for the RPS, which I indeed intent to avail myself of. But, for the input stage, could someone confirm that this will indeed work :

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Power-Suppl...-6-3mm-Quick-Disconnect-16AWG-UL/222444833430

I'm just worried that 2' might still be a bit short, but I'm sure I can figure something out if so. Or - is @Thehack planning on making input harnesses as well?

3. Some of the other builds I've seen (especially @petricor 's...that one was particularly harmful to my self-esteem) have inspired me to do better with my cabling, so I have sleeving and heat-shrink inbound;

4. Am I missing something? From the other builds I've seen with a similar setup, this should be about it, but I want to make sure I'm good.

Thanks much!

 

[Choidebu]

Battery dying so can only quickly respond on dynamo mini's input: it's actually 16 to 24, so 15 is doubtful. And if you have the choice it's usually better to go higher, aka 24V.

 

[SilverJS]

So - first off, I think I just realized that it's kind of the "in" thing to do, to make one's first post reflect significant updates. Hadn't caught on to that - I'll get on that once I'm done posting this, I think. @neyurt's wonderful build thread made me realize that - it is indeed much more elegant, and easier for newcomers. It offers a quick digest of the thread, so I think I'll do that.

Anyway - I feel like there's been SOOO many updates since last time, went through so many iterations...but here's the latest, in a nutshell :

- First, decided to abandon the whole brickless thing. Found a decently-priced genuine Dell brick from a Canadian supplier, and ordered it. Connected it, and it didn't work! The green LED would go out as soon as the barrel touched the connector;

- This made me rethink the whole brick/brickless situation. That made me go back to the dual-Meanwell idea, which I still haven't abandoned (can't seem to let it go!). Twisted my head in knots trying to find a way to fit the UHP, RPS, KMPKT 360 and this Y controller :

http://www.mini-box.com/Y-PWR-Hot-Swap-Load-Sharing-Controller

Alas, I simply could not and had to give up on the idea. Basic premise was to use my UHP-200-24, get an RPS-200-24 and sum them into the KMPKT 360+160. Still would be the ideal solution but I don't think it's possible. Maybe, MAYBE, with two RPS's on the front panel, with at least the GPU one actively cooled (they're 40mm "high", so one could add a 40mm fan too right beside them). But you'd have to get a custom front panel, move power button to the back...blah.

- Got my 6700K. Was utterly disappointed with it. Not in the processor itself, but in its stability. I had a heck of a time even getting the darn thing to run properly - when I loaded optimized defaults on my Z270I, the stupid thing would crash on P95!! Never had that happen. Lack of AVX offset option (Kaby Lake onwards only) might have something to do with that, but still...no SVID behaviour on Skylake processors as well so Adaptive Voltage didn't quite work right...anyhow, I just resold it, for the exact same amount I paid for it, so no big loss (save Paypal fees). I'll look for a 7700K and see. I guess I've never worked with 6th gen, it's all been 7th (7350K, 7700K, etc....even an 8350K on a Z370-G at some point);

- Read about the whole RTX2060 release, and I'm sold. Zotac RTX2060 looks great, near-GTX1080 performance with good S4M dimensions and recessed power connector. Would work with a UHP-200 next to it like I have it, so even better.

Now - on the brick...turns out that, if I unplug the AC end of the brick (after I've plugged the barrel in the computer, and the green LED's gone out), and re-plug it, green LED comes on, all is well! But still, I can't quite abandon that dual Meanwell thing...=)

So, a question for the experts out there : does anyone know of a (small!) device of some sort that would take voltage form 24V to 12V, and control ripple at the same time? That way, I could just re-use my 24V UHP-200, and control the ripple at the same time...not holding my breath though.

Cheers!

 

[Thehack]

I like to point out that you can't just sum two 24V PSU together (parallel). The psu have to be designed for that or else you'll get some weird electrical flow.

What about using two 12V in serial to create a single 24V PSU? A quick email to meanwell should confirm if the psu can be wired up in series.