SFF.Network [SFF Network] PC-Q04 - Lian-Li Returns to Small

Lian-Li, one of the Godfathers of aluminium PC cases, has launched a new product, the truly SFF PC-Q04. Measuring in at 194mm wide, 294mm high and 210 mm deep, this 12 litre chassis offers a decent selection of hardware fitment options.

Read more here.

 

[Phuncz]

Kip, I'm sorry but more than a few things bother me with this case:

1. Front panel button has inside mounting (no visible screws) while the I/O has counter-sunk screws. It's obvious they went with the cheapest parts they had in the part bin, but they could have just as easily used the I/O bracket used in the Ncase M1 allowing no visible screws.
2. No performations at the top, although that's where the storage is and that's where warm air goes to without fans. Since this has only support for one fan at the bottom (possibly two if using the PSU's fan) this seems important to have.
3. Screwed side panel while Lian-Li has toolless options.
   
4. If they placed the power button at another location, the supported GPU length could have been a lot better.
5. Those feet.
6. They could have moved the motherboard and GPU cutouts dozen or so millimeters higher and allowed storage at the front of the case, while allowing 120-180mm fans at the top and bottom. All the space in front of the motherboard is useless now.

They should try getting feedback from an SFF-oriented community before they release a case that could be improved dramatically in performance and flexibility by just moving around some cutouts.

I am amazed they managed to make a case that's 12L in volume, but too bad an Ncase M1 (also 12L) still beats it in almost every regard, except proper ATX PSU support and probably price. But an ATX PSU in this case seems like a waste.

 

[iFreilicht]

All of this. There are so many things wrong with this case, it's unsettling. You'd think that with a company this reputable, not more than one or two details would go unnoticed, but this just looks like the barest of prototypes that got released by accident.
I'm very, very disappointed.
I doubt we'd get one, but an official statement by the engineering team about the specific design decisions on this case would be quite interesting to read.

 

[Vittra]

Lian Li ignores consumer feedback with respect to case design from what I can surmise. Either that or they are exceptionally bad at implementing it, since each new iteration of a case design usually introduces some old problems when resolving others.

I suspect Kip would get stonewalled trying to glean any information regarding how they come to design decisions.

They actually have a really nice ATX case that was introduced quite recently, but as that is outside of the scope of this forum it didn't bear mentioning here.

 

[Kip]

Kip, I'm sorry but more than a few things bother me with this case:Front panel button has inside mounting (no visible screws) while the I/O has counter-sunk screws. It's obvious they went with the cheapest parts they had in the part bin, but they could have just as easily used the I/O bracket used in the Ncase M1 allowing no visible screws.No performations at the top, although that's where the storage is and that's where warm air goes to without fans. Since this has only support for one fan at the bottom (possibly two if using the PSU's fan) this seems important to have.

1. Screwed side panel while Lian-Li has toolless options.
   
2. If they placed the power button at another location, the supported GPU length could have been a lot better.
3. Those feet.
4. They could have moved the motherboard and GPU cutouts dozen or so millimeters higher and allowed storage at the front of the case, while allowing 120-180mm fans at the top and bottom. All the space in front of the motherboard is useless now.

They should try getting feedback from an SFF-oriented community before they release a case that could be improved dramatically in performance and flexibility by just moving around some cutouts.

I am amazed they managed to make a case that's 12L in volume, but too bad an Ncase M1 (also 12L) still beats it in almost every regard, except proper ATX PSU support and probably price. But an ATX PSU in this case seems like a waste.

I almost missed this. Vittra is sorta right, its hard to get some answers out of them, but mostly its a time and language thing, The main engineer does know why he does things, and does listen. But voices drowned each other out and contradict themselves too often to be useful, so he does not listen often. I will see what I can do on this case, his usual answer is: I will do that on the next one.

OK:
1: You are right, and I never noticed that. I will suggest spot welding or some other non-visable way next time. But, I wonder... Would having power button and ports on the back be OK? Clean front with no breaks at all? Hmmmm.

2. There are the top vents on the back wall, They will do a lot. And vents on top would let a LOT of dust in. I bet this was intentional.

3. Again, I bet they had to screw the mobo side in, so just kept it similar on the other side. Doubt it was cost, mostly.

4. They are good feet Good for any vibrations and keep it quiet. And is a time where 1/2 the people would say the same if they used other feet

5. I don't see how. That would cut out the drive "hat" on top, right? And the PSU and mobo are already very close to the front wall, so it would have to be longer that dimension. This case specifically uses the hat space and keep the length as short as can be. There are other cases at do follow longer but shorter design, this one is taller but narrower. Lian Li seems to like making more cases, with options, and building on the ones that people like.

Comparing this to an Ncase is cool, but volume is not really a good measure. This should be a lot less $, albeit a bit less wow factor as well. This is a sleeper case, not a race car. I would have it on my office desk, and the Ncase, or Dan, at home

ATX PSU is needed for an R9 Nano Well, this case was made before the Nano, but they do seem well matched.

There is a really small mATX case coming soon, I may actually post it on SFFF. But what ATX case did you mean Vittra? PM me if its way to big for here

 

[iFreilicht]

Kip, thanks for answering. Maybe you could reorder your answers? Right now they're in the wrong order compared to Phuncz concerns.

1. I believe Phuncz was talking about the push-pin attachment solution that LianLi has developed themselves and used in a lot of cases. It seems strange why they would replace this well regarded and clean looking method with just screws. It seems like a throwback to the early days of LL.

2. Vents on top have been done by LianLi before and never have I seen a single person report that they would let too much dust in. LianLi also has access to low-profile dust filters, which would block dust completely when no fan was taking in air through them. The only argument I could see for having a closed top is aesthetics, especially when silver gray 3.5" HDDs are installed that would be visible through the grill.
Still, the front and is the most prominent sides, and I welcome LianLis philosophy to keep that clean, but on the top aesthetics are less important and form should follow function there, at least in my opinion.

3. What is this an answer to?

4. They may be good feet, but they don't fit the look of the case at all. It's not like there aren't any good by LianLi, but placing thin, ugly feet on the outermost corners of a case like this seems like a rushed decision.

5. Yes it would only allow a fan at the top, and no drives, but as it was noted, those drives could be placed in front of the motherboard. Maybe not both, but who in SFF goes for a ITX GPU to save space and then requires two 3.5" HDDs? And no, the motherboard is not close to the front wall at all, there's at least 35mm of space there, if not more. The supported GPU length is 190mm and the power button (which limits the GPU length) is at least 15mm deep, not including the cables. 190mm+15mm-170mm is 35mm, a 3.5" HDD is 25mm tall. Even with shock-absorbing mounts, you'd have to add maybe 5mm to the length for everything to comfortably fit and still have access to the ATX24pin retention mechanism, 0mm if you accepted a snug fit.
It is true that LianLi seems to make a similar case multiple times with different options for components, and that's totally fine and makes me hopeful that we see an update version of this in the future. I personally think that one single case with accessory options is the better way to go, though.

Sorry, but saying that the R9 Nano requires an ATX PSU is just simply not true. SFX PSUs are easily capable of doing this, even short FlexATX PSUs are now capable of suppying 500W of power.
I wouldn't criticise the decision of SFX, though, as ATX PSUs can be a lot less noisy. Still, an SFX bracket for the back would be a nice accessory.

 

[Vittra]

IThere is a really small mATX case coming soon, I may actually post it on SFFF. But what ATX case did you mean Vittra? PM me if its way to big for here

It's the one I asked you about previously in PM, the PC-18.

I would be interested in knowing about the mATX case you mention, but if it's not suitable for SFF, I'm fine with a PM about it .

 

[Kip]

Kip, I'm sorry but more than a few things bother me with this case:

1. Front panel button has inside mounting (no visible screws) while the I/O has counter-sunk screws. It's obvious they went with the cheapest parts they had in the part bin, but they could have just as easily used the I/O bracket used in the Ncase M1 allowing no visible screws.
   
   1: You are right, and I never noticed that. I will suggest spot welding or some other non-visable way next time.
   
   
   
2. No performations at the top, although that's where the storage is and that's where warm air goes to without fans. Since this has only support for one fan at the bottom (possibly two if using the PSU's fan) this seems important to have.
   
   2. There are the top vents on the back wall, They will do a lot. And vents on top would let a LOT of dust in. I bet this was intentional. Dust is something people say all the time about other cases, the TU300 recently. So its on my mind. I would like to see how it does, does anyone know a good reviewer with an infrared camera?
   
   
3. Screwed side panel while Lian-Li has toolless options.
   
   3. Yes, the Mobo side can't have them, so I guess they did them both the same.
   But I concur, it would have been better to have them.
   
   
4. If they placed the power button at another location, the supported GPU length could have been a lot better.
   Would having power button and ports on the back be OK? Clean front with no breaks at all? So, that would gain 1/2 an inch
   
   
5. Those feet. We all got feet I don't know why they picked them, but they look OK to me. Some love them, some leave them.
   
   
6. They could have moved the motherboard and GPU cutouts dozen or so millimeters higher and allowed storage at the front of the case, while allowing 120-180mm fans at the top and bottom. All the space in front of the motherboard is useless now.
   
   This is true, and if you did it, you would have one of several other Q cases. This one is Tall and Narrow. Ya got to let LL try new things. If it works, they will make more. If not, they have the other options. Picking a case is like finding a puppy at the pound. You keep looking until one tugs you the right way and you go home with a new best friend.

They should try getting feedback from an SFF-oriented community before they release a case that could be improved dramatically in performance and flexibility by just moving around some cutouts.

They try, but the "community" all say opposite things. But part of what I do is let them know this feedback. They do listen, sometimes the answer is "not this time."


I am amazed they managed to make a case that's 12L in volume, but too bad an Ncase M1 (also 12L) still beats it in almost every regard, except proper ATX PSU support and probably price. But an ATX PSU in this case seems like a waste.

It does seem like better SFX SPU are coming. For this cases they wanted a full ATX PSU for the people that do want one, who ever they are Lian Li actuality makes a good SFX PSU, go figure!

And I passed the idea of an adaptor on to Mr. Huang. If anyone can do it, he can.

Hope that clears it up.

(PS, I added some responses in line. Please look there.)
(PPS, the PC-18 is a real sleeper case. A bit big for SFFF, but with the same idea: fit as much in as small a space as you can. I could fit 2 rads, 1x 240 and 1x 360 inside. Not 2 EKWB Preds, but 2 rads and a pred will fit in either spot, 2 just interfere with each other. I posted some pictures on the blog with the 240.

The other case... Well, just keep refreshing the web page. It will be up soon, I am sure.)

 

[iFreilicht]

I guess the most important point in your answer is this:

They try, but the "community" all say opposite things. But part of what I do is let them know this feedback. They do listen, sometimes the answer is "not this time."

You can't make everyone happy, and for quite a lot of people "just a bit more space to work with" is a very important thing.

Not sure whether I can agree to your answer to point 3. My PC-Q12 had the tool-less attachment thing on the motherboard side as well. Not that you would ever remove that part of the case, but it looked very good from the outside. Additionally, a few LianLi cases switched to having the motherboard attach on two rails that are separate from the side panel.

4. Personally I like my front I/O to be at the front. Maybe having it at the side would be a better compromise, but I've heard from a lot of people that they don't need a power button at the front at all.

6. That's a cute comparison, I like it

Which SFX PSUs are made by LianLi themselves? I know that some cases of LL include FSP PSUs, which are pretty good, but I didn't know they manufactured or designed some on their own.