Motherboard SFF-Forum's Design a board thread

[iFreilicht]

Thank you both. I don't see it coming to consumers, either. Maybe as an SLI replacement, but nothing more.

 

[KSliger]

In case anyone is curious on the NRE cost of a custom motherboard it's ~$125,000 - $150,000 USD.

 

[confusis]

Wow. Even based on an existing design? (i.e. just extending a board a few mm and adding some extra PCIE lanes)

 

[KSliger]

Unfortunately almost any changes at PCB level will require rerouting of all traces, or possibly adding layers based on density and meeting impedance. And if you change your PCB all your testing is no longer applicable, and testing is the bulk of that cost.

There might be same room for a base template modification - but I haven't ever had a project be approached in that manner as you're going to be paying somewhere near that cost either way, might as well get a full custom board out of it.

 

[Phuncz]

While that's still doable, the NRE cost at 10,000 units sold seems to be where one would be at to minimize development costs to stay competitive (at $15 per board). But with enthusiasts willing to pay for something unique, like a Z170 mITX board with a GPU PCIe x16 connector on both ends of the board, this might be doable at 2,000 units or more I'd guess. But it would mean specific cases would be needed.

SFF case + motherboard with possibly a PSU could be done as a barebone (like Shuttle), considering the premium for the case, board and possibly PSU this might be something that's doable in the $400-500 range. Food for thought ! With the help of an OEM taking on the sales and marketing, this could be something.

 

[EdZ]

In case anyone is curious on the NRE cost of a custom motherboard it's ~$125,000 - $150,000 USD.

Ouch. Even if you can drum up 1,000 orders, that's still a $150 premium per board over the actual production costs. It's impressive ASRock managed to get out two entirely different X99 ITX designs.

Then again, we've got a good handle on the sort of market for high-end SFF ITX cases (e.g. Ncase seem to sell batches of 300-600 about once a year), but the ITX motherboard market itself may be much larger given the number of 'big' ITX cases from major manufacturers. It would probably still rule out custom 'lie-flat' PCI-E boards - or other custom form-factors - outside of prebuilt systems though.

 

[Phuncz]

I think Ncase is selling more M1's a year than that:
1st rev. ~1000 sold (Q4 2013)
2nd rev. ~1000 sold (Q2 2014)
3rd rev. ??? (Q1 2015)
4th rev. ??? (Q2 2015)

Considering mITX is still regarded by most as something your grandma could live with for browsing the internets.

 

[jeshikat]

I think Mini-DTX would be the logical first choice. There's plenty of cases that it would fit in and there's some demand for one.

Just thought of something though, do they make water blocks that can be connected when side by side?

 

[EdZ]

I've seen a few custom and industrial blocks with side ports, but all the dedicated CPU waterblocks I can think of have at best top ports with angled barbs. A few GPU blocks have side ports, but usually both on the same edge.

 

[jtd871]

Just checked Swiftech, EKWB and XSPC, and all their GPU block bridges require card spacing at every 2nd PCIe location. XSPC's bridge is 22mm long. Based on a 20.3mm PCIe slot width, a bridge for side-by-side slots using XSPC blocks would need to be ~1.7mm thick/long, for example.

 

[Blk]

Think it would be really difficult to make a bridge that small..
It's really tight..

 

[iFreilicht]

Yeah you'd probably have to make a custom bridge between the two cards.

 

[Blk]

Don't think it's even possible to do a bridge, you'll have to go with http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/p/Alphacool-SLI-connection-1-Slot-Black_33420.html

Unless you try to go over and under, but that seems overkill..

 

[iFreilicht]

What I meant was replacing the part where the fittings (or the connector you linked) are screwed into with something that connects the blocks directly. Why shouldn't that work?

 

[Blk]

Ah, yes... didn't think of that..

http://www.overclock.net/t/1546511/you-can-help-create-new-products-ek
just make sure you get royalties

 

[jtd871]

It looks doable for the current FC EKWB blocks - just need to machine a custom Terminal that can be mounted to both blocks. Assuming, as always, that you could fit your cards into adjacent slots (mDTX).

If mDTX w/ 2 x16 slots becomes a thing, EK could probably release them officially with very little effort.

 

[iFreilicht]

I don't think you'd have to machine it. Depending on the way the terminal connects to the blocks, you would be fine by using a block of acrylic and drilling holes in it. With the right thread cutting bits, you could even cut the connections for the fittings yourself without a problem.

 

[WiSK]

I don't think you'd have to machine it. Depending on the way the terminal connects to the blocks, you would be fine by using a block of acrylic and drilling holes in it. With the right thread cutting bits, you could even cut the connections for the fittings yourself without a problem.

EKWB terminals are not easy to make yourself. The connection to the block is a rounded rectangle cut by a 2.5 or 3mm routing bit, and sealed with an unusual oblong and thin o-ring. (See e.g. second picture here https://shop.ekwb.com/ek-fc-terminal-dual-serial).

But looking at Blk's photo, how many millimetres between the 2 terminals? Koolance for example makes a 3.5mm male-to-male G1/4" coupling. I'm sure there are other sizes available from other vendors. Then you don't need to cut, drill or tap anything. Just screw 2 terminals to each other in parallel, and attach to the blocks after they are inserted in the M/B.

 

[jtd871]

EKWB terminals are not easy to make yourself. The connection to the block is a rounded rectangle cut by a 2.5 or 3mm routing bit, and sealed with an unusual oblong and thin o-ring. (See e.g. second picture here https://shop.ekwb.com/ek-fc-terminal-dual-serial).

But looking at Blk's photo, how many millimetres between the 2 terminals? Koolance for example makes a 3.5mm male-to-male G1/4" coupling. I'm sure there are other sizes available from other vendors. Then you don't need to cut, drill or tap anything. Just screw 2 terminals to each other in parallel, and attach to the blocks after they are inserted in the M/B.

The Koolance swivel fitting is 10.4mm overall for the body, which is about 8mm less than the EKWB swivel M/M fittings.

Blk, were you able to get to a single slot spacing withe Alphacool fitting? What is the width of the standard EKWB terminal block?

 

[Blk]

That photo isn't mine, but i think the guy posted some measurements in his thread. I'll see if i can find it..

EDIT: http://www.overclock.net/t/1563907/build-log-unit-3-1-tri-sli-matx/10#post_24165622