Motherboard Deep-ITX Potential/Discussion

Analogue Blacksheep

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Figured it might be time for another one of these discussion/roundup/speculation obscure motherboard form factor threads with the B550 board showing up.

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What is Deep-ITX it so far as of 11/04/21?
- 6.7"x 8.2" or 170mm x 208mm (Standard ITX is 6.7"x 6.7" or 170mm x 170mm, DTX is 8"× 6.7" (203 × 170 mm).
- Proprietary ASRock Rack form factor.
- There are currently two boards as of writing; the ASRock Rack ROMED4ID-2T and the ASRock Rack B550D4ID-2L2T.
- There is enough room on the board for 4 full sized DIMM's on the board.
- Could in theory fit in a number of existing ITX cases, Silverstone SG05/SG13 for instance.
- Uses standard ITX mounting holes
- The Dan C4-SFX will natively support the form factor.
- Linus has covered the ROMED4ID-2T.

Quick thoughts
- Would be good if "regular" ASRock got access to the form factor so we could see what an enthusiast/workstation setup would be like.
- If the form factor was mainstream, that might open the door up for some powerful sandwich style cases.
- Threadripper Deep-ITX? (Still would require some witchcraft to get the WRX80 chipset to fit...)
- If it can fit 4 DIMM's, could you add a third M.2 on a consumer board?
- Would ASRock rack open the form factor up to other vendors to increase public awareness?

Starting point
- Despite there being only two boards so far, has anyone experimented with any case ideas? Do you see this form factor as a viable solution for your builds? Do you think MATX makes more sense?
 
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Gilles3000

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Oct 6, 2018
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These have great potential if converted in a more mainstream way.

Easily the most awesome part is the 12VO only input, this significantly eases cable management. And also makes it much easier to use non standard PSU's like Server units, non standard like meanwell units or fully custom units like G-Unique.

For consumer boards i'd rather they do away with the quad dimm's on B550 as its unnecessary(very few people need more than 128gb of memory) and reduces memory performance/OC potential. And add a beefier VRM, more IO and maybe more m.2's

The Rome board is pretty good already, since its basically infinitely adaptable with all the slimline PCIe ports, just remove the management ports, management controllers and VGA, change it over to threadripper, and maybe beef up the vrm a bit) and add a 3.2 10g usb header.

I don't see any of this happening though.

Some people already used long mini-DTX boards in the Silverstone shoebox style cases, they were made by Shuttle, but I think the last notable one they made was on X79, all the ones they made after were kind of pointless.

This is probably one of the most interesting build-logs with one: https://www.overclock.net/threads/b...rossfire-in-a-white-bitfenix-prodigy.1304413/
 

Analogue Blacksheep

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@Gilles3000 - You could have two variants, one that is 4 DIMM's with about 2 M.2's and an OCuLink or two and another that is 2 DIMMs but has about 3 or 4 M.2's.

Personally, I would prefer more NVME M.2's or OCuLink ports even though in the past I was hell bent on having 4 DIMM's. You can have them arranged like the Supermicro M12SWA-TF WRX80 board.
 
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Revenant

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I like the potential, though I'm more a fan of DTX. I would hope the extra space is used to give users some of the benefits of larger boards that ITX limits. Better VRMs, more M.2 slots, more internal USB headers, etc. I don't really see a need for more than two slots of memory in the average consumer build.
 
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bholenath

Efficiency Noob
Dec 16, 2020
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I love this form factor. Wouldn't mind if they increased the length by another inch and so almost no space will be wasted with say a 240mm GPU.

If they make a consumer version of the B550D4ID-2L2T keeping the 10gBe but adding some audio, and usb ports I would buy it even if it was about $350.
 

Skripka

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The problem with the form factor.... The longer length makes SFF less possible. Tower-layout certainly couldn't get any smaller than NCase. Sandwich layout probably couldn't get smaller than NCase either.

Even 'mediocre', with big finger quotes, VRMs on say AM4 are overbuilt enough to easily handle OCing a 5950X on LN2. So the extra real estate doesn't really gain you anything WRT power delivery.

12VO doesn't really gain anything. All of us are already using fully modular SFX PSUs, and many on the smaller end are using custom PSU cables to lessen connectors and optimize cable length to the case we're using. With Deep-ITX is isn't like a FlexATX PSU really gets you much gains in terms of volume reduction, and it ofc gets more noise. You just end up shuffling cabling around as now the VRM duty for SATA power for say AIOs now has to eat up motherboard space....so already expensive motherboards become even moreso.


I'm much more interested in STX developments, TBH. The Deep ITX boards are interesting...but the more you dig at their practicality for SFF desktop PC, the more problems there are.
 

Revenant

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Even 'mediocre', with big finger quotes, VRMs on say AM4 are overbuilt enough to easily handle OCing a 5950X on LN2. So the extra real estate doesn't really gain you anything WRT power delivery.

Common misconception.






 

Skripka

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Common misconception.







Nothing misconcepted, at all. In fact, you proved my point. You see what that nearly 2 hours of video shows--is that the VRM is not the problem. Cooling the VRM is. The MOSFETs will first go unstable and then quite literally melt before the VRM's amp and voltage delivery limits are exceeded OCing modern CPUs.

Having a multiphase VRM capable of 600 Amps of power delivery--doesn't matter if the cooling solution attached to it cannot sink the associated 60W of waste heat. As such, having a VRM capable of Looney Tune amp delivery is irrelevant; because the limiting factor is not the electrical power, it is sinking the waste heat. Further in that video's case--the test platforms were ATX, which have far far more room that 'Deep ITX'--so they're even further advantaged and heat was still the limiter.
 
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Revenant

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Nothing misconcepted, at all. In fact, you proved my point. You see what that nearly 2 hours of video shows--is that the VRM is not the problem. Cooling the VRM is. The MOSFETs will first go unstable and then quite literally melt before the VRM's amp and voltage delivery limits are exceeded OCing modern CPUs.

Having a multiphase VRM capable of 600 Amps of power delivery--doesn't matter if the cooling solution attached to it cannot sink the associated 60W of waste heat. As such, having a VRM capable of Looney Tune amp delivery is irrelevant; because the limiting factor is not the electrical power, it is sinking the waste heat. Further in that video's case--the test platforms were ATX, which have far far more room that 'Deep ITX'--so they're even further advantaged and heat was still the limiter.
A VRM design includes cooling system attached. Clearly some mainboards are incapable of even stock speeds. As you said, larger mainboards give more room. Extended ITX could give more room for better VRM cooling. The way you’re talking about the VRMs is as if I said:

“All 2600Ks can hit 6GHZ”. *

* If attached to LN2 cooling solution and only for certain time limits and it may damage the CPU...etc etc etc.

You are technically correct, but that’s the worst kind of correct. You and I can understand the technical considerations due to experience, but new builders won’t. They just take blanket statements as fact.

So I stand by my statement: it’s a common misconception that all AM4 board VRMs can handle all AM4 CPUs.
 
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Analogue Blacksheep

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Here's a funny thing, looked on reddit and came across this Threadripper ITX concept. Deep-ITX before Deep-ITX.