Raven Ridge and the wait...

[AleksandarK]

Aha, that's what I have missed. Thanks for the explanation!

Now what makes AMD put only 11 CU there? Technical limitation, or business decision?

It may be technical limitation due to heat radiated from CPU, as the GPU in basicly on the same die. It is extremely hard to make this kind of processor as there are many thing that need to be done.

How Intel puled it off then?
Because they used interconnect called EMIB that connects mulitple DIEs for very low cost. You cold connect ANYTHING within reasonable expectations. Example: FPGA with HBM, CPU with GPU(as in NUC).

 

[Choidebu]

Now what makes AMD put only 11 CU there? Technical limitation, or business decision?

Imma have to call the CEO. Wait up, random internet person!

 

[stree]

Am I the only one hoping for a 95W TDP Ryzen 7 2600G as well?

I could live with that!

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

So after a half-dozen threads on this topic,
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/raven-ridge-has-vega.2113/
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/a12-9800.2360/
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/ryzen-apu-graphics.1965/
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/t...onsidering-one-for-a-light-gaming-build.1654/
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/ryzen-5-and-7-vega-mobile-raven-ridge-apu-spotted.3199/
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/raven-ridge-engineering-sample.2051/#post-44939
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/amd-apu-raven-readying-for-launch.6022/


Can we finally conclude that the Raven Ridge Desktop APU is no more competitive (in terms of graphics) than Kaveri was when it launched? If Raven Ridge is competitive with a GTX 750 (now a 4 year old GPU), it doesn't sound so great and I don't recall people being impressed that Kaveri (2014 release) was competitive with a GTS 450 (from 2010).

​

Now suddenly it drops to GTX 1030? What did I miss?

Now what makes AMD put only 11 CU there? Technical limitation, or business decision?

Based on Kaveri's performance, adding more CU's probably wouldn't do much for performance anyways. The A8 7600 performed nearly as well as the A10 7850k even though it had 4 fewer CU's. AMD could put 28CU's on a RR APU and crank the TDP up to 150W, but if it's still going with DDR4 @ 3000mhz and a 128bit memory bus, it's going to be severely gimped.
So then you need an on package HBM2 but...

I'd guess at Raven Ridge not containing HBM/2, mainly because it needs a silicon interposer. That would mean the package suddenly gets a lot more complicated (minimum three silicon components, and an increase in package Z-height compared to Ryzen) and expensive. Some other variety of eDRAM cache like Intel's crystalwell may be possible. If AMD are assembling Raven Ridge as a multi-chip package rather than putting the iGPU on-die, then adding an extra cache die (or putting a big cache on the GPU die) would be an option. But if they continue the Bristol Ridge single-die design, that doesn't leave much room for cramming both a big Ryzen CCX, big GPU, and a big cache onto one piece of silicon and not having it cost a silly amount to fab.

- from EdZ in Apr 2017

What he said matches up pretty well to what we see for the Hades Canyon. It performs well not only because of the additional CU's, but also the 4GB of HBM2.

https://semiaccurate.com/2014/01/15/exploring-effect-memory-bandwidth-amds-kaveri/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/12

 

[Choidebu]

Yeah nothing to see here people, let's move on...

This is an unfullfilled niche where they keep botching it. Now that GPU prices are skyhigh (the indication already starts early to mid last year) if they can put raven ridge in the right price-performance point it could've been huge. There's a huge slew of casual gamers coming from moba who don't need higher end gpu.

 

[Jello]

Am I the only one hoping for a 95W TDP Ryzen 7 2600G as well?

Only APU I'd consider buying ATM, but I haven't seen anything like this mentioned. Maybe someone else has?

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

What is so special about a 95w 2600g?

 

[ignsvn]

Sad day for us :/

Oh well, I guess that also ends my quest for an In Win Chopin like case to house APU-only HTPC, at least for now.

On a separate note.. I'm curious if Raven Ridge was also done by Jim Keller?

 

[Soul_Est]

Only APU I'd consider buying ATM, but I haven't seen anything like this mentioned. Maybe someone else has?

Nothing mentioned, unfortunately. Just wishful thinking on my part.

What is so special about a 95w 2600g?

That it would be the range-topper. There are already 95W Ryzen 7 CPUs so why not a 95W Ryzen 7 APU?

 

[Jello]

Precisely that. If 2400g is i5-8400 and gt1030, I'd like to know what a 2600g would be. Especially if it was 6c/12t or more.

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

That it would be the range-topper. There are already 95W Ryzen 7 CPUs so why not a 95W Ryzen 7 APU?

Precisely that. If 2400g is i5-8400 and gt1030, I'd like to know what a 2600g would be. Especially if it was 6c/12t or more.

Ok suppose AMD came out with a 95W TDP chip, why is that going to be significantly more powerful?
6C/12T AMD APU is impossible IIRC, because AMD removed one of the CPU clusters (4 cores) to fit the GPU.

 

[ChinStrap]

I agree with the call, no 6c/12t sku. They don't have the room for it.

 

[Soul_Est]

Ok suppose AMD came out with a 95W TDP chip, why is that going to be significantly more powerful?
6C/12T AMD APU is impossible IIRC, because AMD removed one of the CPU clusters (4 cores) to fit the GPU.

I agree with the call, no 6c/12t sku. They don't have the room for it.

It would be for the iGPU. The CPU side is powerful enough as it is.

 

[ChainedHope]

If they went with the TR4 socket they could have replaced the 2 dummy dies with 2 vega clusters
#MissedOppertunity

(Would someone buy a TR4 with vega built in? No gpu workstation maybe?)

 

[Soul_Est]

If they went with the TR4 socket they could have replaced the 2 dummy dies with 2 vega clusters
#MissedOppertunity

(Would someone buy a TR4 with vega built in? No gpu workstation maybe?)

Good question. I thought about that as well. The thing is, once you get to mATX and above, the volume increases to the point as to make such a thing rather niche. If the space inefficiency thread is anything to go by however, that would be a niche that would be filled.

 

[ChainedHope]

Good question. I thought about that as well. The thing is, once you get to mATX and above, the volume increases to the point as to make such a thing rather niche. If the space inefficiency thread is anything to go by however, that would be a niche that would be filled.

Slim mATX cases? The ones where there is just enough room for the mobo, heatsink, psu, and storage? They aren't practical but they have a small footprint if you stand them upright.

 

[JosephEK]

I've been hoodwinked by AMD APUs over and over. I've bought the "flagship" APU of every generation, and in every instance, it has let me down big time. To say that Intel's offering is better is not putting it into perspective.

Please Raven Ridge...please be the chosen one!

I would expect GPU performance ~ GT 1030, possibly a little less. Won't play PUBG most likely, but Minecraft, Rocket League, Runescape, World of Tanks. Probably no problem even at 1080p now.

 

[Soul_Est]

Slim mATX cases? The ones where there is just enough room for the mobo, heatsink, psu, and storage? They aren't practical but they have a small footprint if you stand them upright.

Quite true. Thank goodness @ASRock System is doing a mATX TR4 motherboard. Only issue at that point would be a good top-down cooler such as an Arctic Accelero.

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

It would be for the iGPU. The CPU side is powerful enough as it is.

What I'm saying is, what is AMD going to do to increase performance dramatically over the R5 2400g? Because the A10 7850k had 33% more CU (8 vs 6) than the A8 7600 but the performance was not 33% more. It also had the same GPU core clock despite having a much higher TDP.

The biggest increase in performance for Kaveri came from higher speed memory, an A8 7600 with 2133mhz DDR3 would have been a better investment than say a 7850k + 1600mhz. If AMD released a higher performance APU, it'd benefit the most by supporting DDR4 4000mhz (or higher) instead of simply adding more CU's. Unfortunately the price of DDR4 4000mhz vs 3000mhz ends up trashing the value proposition of the APU.

 

[Soul_Est]

What I'm saying is, what is AMD going to do to increase performance dramatically over the R5 2400g? Because the A10 7850k had 33% more CU (6 vs 4) than the A8 7600 but the performance was not 33% more. It also had the same GPU core clock despite having a much higher TDP.

The biggest increase in performance for Kaveri came from higher speed memory, an A8 7600 with 2133mhz DDR3 would have been a better investment than say a 7850k + 1600mhz. If AMD released a higher performance APU, it'd benefit the most by supporting DDR4 4000mhz (or higher) instead of simply adding more CU's. Unfortunately the price of DDR4 4000mhz vs 3000mhz ends up trashing the value proposition of the APU.

That is very true but since we should be able to overclock the memory controller like on Kaveri and also overclock the RAM (3200 CL14 to 4000 CL19?), that may prove to be very beneficial. Not ruling out what happened with the 7850K vs the 7600 but this is a big change as well.