Raven Ridge and the wait...

Discussion in 'General' started by Shahmatt, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. AleksandarK

    AleksandarK SFFer
    Moderator Mini-ITX.com

    It may be technical limitation due to heat radiated from CPU, as the GPU in basicly on the same die. It is extremely hard to make this kind of processor as there are many thing that need to be done.

    How Intel puled it off then?
    Because they used interconnect called EMIB that connects mulitple DIEs for very low cost. You cold connect ANYTHING within reasonable expectations. Example: FPGA with HBM, CPU with GPU(as in NUC).
     
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  2. Choidebu

    Choidebu Master of Cramming

    Imma have to call the CEO. Wait up, random internet person!
     
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  3. stree

    stree Airflow Optimizer

    I could live with that!
     
  4. IntoxicatedPuma

    IntoxicatedPuma Customizer of Titles
    Site Staff Moderator Silver Supporter

    So after a half-dozen threads on this topic,
    https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/raven-ridge-has-vega.2113/
    https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/a12-9800.2360/
    https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/ryzen-apu-graphics.1965/
    https://smallformfactor.net/forum/t...onsidering-one-for-a-light-gaming-build.1654/
    https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/ryzen-5-and-7-vega-mobile-raven-ridge-apu-spotted.3199/
    https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/raven-ridge-engineering-sample.2051/#post-44939
    https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/amd-apu-raven-readying-for-launch.6022/


    Can we finally conclude that the Raven Ridge Desktop APU is no more competitive (in terms of graphics) than Kaveri was when it launched? If Raven Ridge is competitive with a GTX 750 (now a 4 year old GPU), it doesn't sound so great and I don't recall people being impressed that Kaveri (2014 release) was competitive with a GTS 450 (from 2010).

    Based on Kaveri's performance, adding more CU's probably wouldn't do much for performance anyways. The A8 7600 performed nearly as well as the A10 7850k even though it had 4 fewer CU's. AMD could put 28CU's on a RR APU and crank the TDP up to 150W, but if it's still going with DDR4 @ 3000mhz and a 128bit memory bus, it's going to be severely gimped.
    So then you need an on package HBM2 but...

    - from EdZ in Apr 2017

    What he said matches up pretty well to what we see for the Hades Canyon. It performs well not only because of the additional CU's, but also the 4GB of HBM2.

    https://semiaccurate.com/2014/01/15/exploring-effect-memory-bandwidth-amds-kaveri/
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/12
     
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  5. Choidebu

    Choidebu Master of Cramming

    Yeah nothing to see here people, let's move on...

    This is an unfullfilled niche where they keep botching it. Now that GPU prices are skyhigh (the indication already starts early to mid last year) if they can put raven ridge in the right price-performance point it could've been huge. There's a huge slew of casual gamers coming from moba who don't need higher end gpu.
     
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  6. Jello

    Jello Cable-Tie Ninja

    Only APU I'd consider buying ATM, but I haven't seen anything like this mentioned. Maybe someone else has?
     
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  7. IntoxicatedPuma

    IntoxicatedPuma Customizer of Titles
    Site Staff Moderator Silver Supporter

    What is so special about a 95w 2600g?
     
  8. ignsvn

    ignsvn Master of Cramming

    Sad day for us :/

    Oh well, I guess that also ends my quest for an In Win Chopin like case to house APU-only HTPC, at least for now.

    On a separate note.. I'm curious if Raven Ridge was also done by Jim Keller?
     
  9. Soul_Est

    Soul_Est SFF Guru
    Silver Supporter

    #29 Soul_Est, Jan 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
    Nothing mentioned, unfortunately. Just wishful thinking on my part.

    That it would be the range-topper. There are already 95W Ryzen 7 CPUs so why not a 95W Ryzen 7 APU?
     
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  10. Jello

    Jello Cable-Tie Ninja

    Precisely that. If 2400g is i5-8400 and gt1030, I'd like to know what a 2600g would be. Especially if it was 6c/12t or more.
     
  11. IntoxicatedPuma

    IntoxicatedPuma Customizer of Titles
    Site Staff Moderator Silver Supporter

    Ok suppose AMD came out with a 95W TDP chip, why is that going to be significantly more powerful?
    6C/12T AMD APU is impossible IIRC, because AMD removed one of the CPU clusters (4 cores) to fit the GPU.
     
  12. ChinStrap

    ChinStrap Average Stuffer

    I agree with the call, no 6c/12t sku. They don't have the room for it.
     
  13. Soul_Est

    Soul_Est SFF Guru
    Silver Supporter

    It would be for the iGPU. The CPU side is powerful enough as it is.
     
  14. ChainedHope

    ChainedHope Airflow Optimizer

    If they went with the TR4 socket they could have replaced the 2 dummy dies with 2 vega clusters
    #MissedOppertunity

    (Would someone buy a TR4 with vega built in? No gpu workstation maybe?)
     
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  15. Soul_Est

    Soul_Est SFF Guru
    Silver Supporter

    Good question. I thought about that as well. The thing is, once you get to mATX and above, the volume increases to the point as to make such a thing rather niche. If the space inefficiency thread is anything to go by however, that would be a niche that would be filled.
     
  16. ChainedHope

    ChainedHope Airflow Optimizer

    Slim mATX cases? The ones where there is just enough room for the mobo, heatsink, psu, and storage? They aren't practical but they have a small footprint if you stand them upright.
     
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  17. JosephEK

    JosephEK Cable-Tie Ninja

    I would expect GPU performance ~ GT 1030, possibly a little less. Won't play PUBG most likely, but Minecraft, Rocket League, Runescape, World of Tanks. Probably no problem even at 1080p now.
     
  18. Soul_Est

    Soul_Est SFF Guru
    Silver Supporter

    #38 Soul_Est, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
    Quite true. Thank goodness @ASRock System is doing a mATX TR4 motherboard. Only issue at that point would be a good top-down cooler such as an Arctic Accelero.
     
  19. IntoxicatedPuma

    IntoxicatedPuma Customizer of Titles
    Site Staff Moderator Silver Supporter

    #39 IntoxicatedPuma, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
    What I'm saying is, what is AMD going to do to increase performance dramatically over the R5 2400g? Because the A10 7850k had 33% more CU (8 vs 6) than the A8 7600 but the performance was not 33% more. It also had the same GPU core clock despite having a much higher TDP.

    The biggest increase in performance for Kaveri came from higher speed memory, an A8 7600 with 2133mhz DDR3 would have been a better investment than say a 7850k + 1600mhz. If AMD released a higher performance APU, it'd benefit the most by supporting DDR4 4000mhz (or higher) instead of simply adding more CU's. Unfortunately the price of DDR4 4000mhz vs 3000mhz ends up trashing the value proposition of the APU.
     
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  20. Soul_Est

    Soul_Est SFF Guru
    Silver Supporter

    #40 Soul_Est, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
    That is very true but since we should be able to overclock the memory controller like on Kaveri and also overclock the RAM (3200 CL14 to 4000 CL19?), that may prove to be very beneficial. Not ruling out what happened with the 7850K vs the 7600 but this is a big change as well.