Motherboard Low-power noiseless build

oifrcz

Cable Smoosher
Original poster
Jul 15, 2021
8
2
Hey people!
I'm aiming for some low-power and noiseless build. It's at a concept stage still.

Its two main use cases are 1) Workstation for coding running Linux build systems, and 2) Entertainment/media centre.
Either a SFF case shall host the PC components, or I might integrate them into a piece of furniture, desk, etc.
I thought about using aarch64-based SBC instead, but I need x86-64 for work.

My question: What suitable mainboard types are out there?
I won't need a full-blown 3D graphics card, something that can serve two high-res ultrawide monitors will be just fine --> I guess this literally begs for onboard/integrated graphics?
And hardware compatibility with Linux is crucial...
 

Jace

Chassis Packer
Jan 28, 2017
20
24
I would go with an APU from the AMD RYZEN lineup. If you're in a hurry RYZEN 5 3400G or 3200G, if you can wait till the start of next month, RYZEN 5 5600G. (or 5700G but seems that you don't have much need for more cores than 4-6 so the RYZEN 5s and 3s should do it.) I personally wouldn't buy a GT 1030 because these APUs have integrated graphics that are on par with the GT 1030. The 5600G and 5700G actually have a little bit better iGPU performance than GT 1030.
Then just 8-16GB of RAM. I would go with 16GB because at the moment I'm using an APU system with 8GB of RAM and the RAM usage is at max or close all the time.

As for motherboard I would go with Mini ITX or Mini STX. B550 or A520 for the 5000Gs and ASRock Deskmini A/X300 for the other options. What's really nice about the ASRock Deskmini is that you get the motherboard, case and power supply all in the same package because it's a barebone unit, meaning that you only need to add the processor, RAM and SSD/HDD. APUs come with a really quiet CPU cooler in the package so if you don't want to spend any more than necessary that cooler will do the job. I HIGHLY recommend the ASRock Deskmini A/X300 because of the convenience of not having to buy separate case, motherboard and power supply. Seems like the perfect fit for your computing needs. I am currently typing this message from an A300 unit that is used mainly as a media PC with light gaming every now and then.
 

paulesko

Master of Cramming
Jul 31, 2019
415
322
Motherboards have both DP and HDMi output, IF they can work at the same time in order to power those two monitors, an APU would be the best option, smaller, simpler and with the latest Ryzen, is going to be powerfull. Also, it gives you more flexibility, you can use a pico-psu device of some kind with an iternal brick instead of an sfx power supply, or use the room left on the case (if any) for improved CPU cooling (lower noise)

Take a look at hdplex and streacom. Both have passive ITX pc cases and power supplies to build completely silent systems.


hdplex cases I believe are modified HiFi-2000 cases for Class A amps that are able to fit a computer inside. In case you want to the DIY route, you can have a look at those cases here. https://modushop.biz/site/ (look at the dissipante series) they ship from Italy, if you want one on the United States I believe you can buy it at https://diyaudiostore.com/collections/chassis
 

oifrcz

Cable Smoosher
Original poster
Jul 15, 2021
8
2
I would go with an APU
APU would be the best option, smaller, simpler and with the latest Ryzen, is going to be powerfull
Nice call! That's what I was looking for. Thanks @Jace and @paulesko!
if you can wait till the start of next month, RYZEN 5 5600G
It can wait, so this RYZEN 5 5600G seems to be much better deal with more cores, cache sizes, higher clock speeds at the same TDP as the RYZEN 5 3x00G

# RAM
Then just 8-16GB of RAM
I'll go for 32GB for some future headroom (VMs/containers).

What's really nice about the ASRock Deskmini is that you get the motherboard, case and power supply all in the same package because it's a barebone unit, meaning that you only need to add the processor, RAM and SSD/HDD
Yes, great! Using such barebone units wasn't on my radar (even though I won't be using the case).
After some research, I'd prefer some of Shuttle's XPC slim lineup. Though, the mainboard in the XPC cube ones provide PCIe expansion slots.

# Platform AMD vs. INTEL
Comparing those, I see AMD-based solutions do have a cost advantage. However, seems only INTEL features 10Gbps USB speed. Seems I needed a mini-ITX motherboard with A520/B550 to have it with the AMD.

AMD Ryzen:
  • Only 2x DDR4 SO-DIMM
  • Only USB-A 3.0
  • 1-2x Gb LAN
INTEL Core i:
  • Option of 4x DDR4 (up to 128GB)
  • 4x USB-A 3.1
  • 2x Gb LAN
#iGPU
Point goes to AMD... but do I really need those features?
In the end I need 2x display support and INTEL's causes much less heat.

AMD Vega
  • DirectX 12.1,
  • OpenGL 4.5, Vulkan 1.0,
  • AMD FreeSync 2, AMD Eyefinity,
  • 4x Display Support
  • H.265 encode/decode,
  • VP9 encode/decode
  • TDP 35 W
INTEL UHD Graphics 630
  • DirectX 12,
  • OpenGL 4.5, Vulkan 1.0,
  • Quick Sync Video, InTru 3D, Clear Video HD,
  • 3x Display Support,
  • H.265 encode/decode,
  • VP9 encode/decode,
  • HDCP 2.2
  • TDP 15 W

# PSU
Important topic!
I guess it is a matter of space in the end. I would like to avoid using ATX/SFX type ones: they're bulky. But they could be also nice for semi-passive cooling: In idle mode the integrated fan might be able to stop, and under load it would vent both the APU heatsink and the case, thus no need for any other fans. What do you think?

a pico-psu device of some kind with an iternal brick instead of an sfx power supply
I have no experience with these pico-psu/iternal brick solutions.
  • How do they compare to ATX/SFX type ones?
  • Are they compatible with any standard ITX motherboard?
I see the HDPLEX even has a linear PSU, which seems overkill for my project.

# Case
For me, this is all about estetics and technical design/finesse.
I do like the Streacom products, especially the DA2 V2. The other "HiFi" style cases by Streacom, HDPLEX, ... would look great on my bookshelf. Let me look around!
I find the heatpipe-based concepts very appealing.

Matt also got some great ideas on using your furniture as PC case:
 
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paulesko

Master of Cramming
Jul 31, 2019
415
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I have no experience with these pico-psu/iternal brick solutions.
  • How do they compare to ATX/SFX type ones?
  • Are they compatible with any standard ITX motherboard?
I see the HDPLEX even has a linear PSU, which seems overkill for my project.

# Case
For me, this is all about estetics and technical design/finesse.
I do like the Streacom products, especially the DA2 V2. The other "HiFi" style cases by Streacom, HDPLEX, ... would look great on my bookshelf. Let me look around!
I find the heatpipe-based concepts very appealing.

Matt also got some great ideas on using your furniture as PC case:

There is not a lot of things to read about comaprisons between Pico-psu and standard SFX units, the thing to keep in mind is that Pico-psu units are much less common and also there is a high probability that you can buy a piece of ***** on alliexpress. I´d stick to hd-plex (take in mind this is a 19v system, not a 12v like all others), pico-psu itself @Thehack ( https://j-hackcompany.com/?product_cat=03-power ) or an ArchDaemon unit. Any of those will work well, you can add a brick from a well known brand (meanwell, or a dell laptop brick) and you are good to go.

Any of the options above are compatible with ITX standar, and you will have no problems.

Linear psus, are more for audiophile use, so the USB has less noise in its signal, it has no other benefits as far as I´m aware.

Take in mind that if the case you like has the size of the DA-2 you don´t "need" to go the pico-psu route. That´s a big case for SFF standards and you can fit inside a noctua NH-C14s with a 140mm fan as exhaust, couple it with a semi passive highpower PSU or the passive silverstone 450w psu and you will have a virtually silent pc.

Also, in case you don´t know there is a new noctua passive CPU cooler that could manage what you want to cool. Although I would always place a case fan that begins to spin with a CPU temp of ... 70 degress or so... just in case.

You´ll need some height clearance though, for exmple this case would allow it https://www.sliger.com/products/cases/s620/
 

tinyitx

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 25, 2018
2,279
2,338
Also, in case you don´t know there is a new noctua passive CPU cooler that could manage what you want to cool. Although I would always place a case fan that begins to spin with a CPU temp of ... 70 degress or so... just in case.

You´ll need some height clearance though, for exmple this case would allow it https://www.sliger.com/products/cases/s620/
Noctua NH-P1 will fit into Sliger S620 but Noctua says this case is not suitable for passive cooling in general.
I do not know why Noctua says this as the case has good top panel ventilation directly above the position of a NH-P1. I suppose, it should work in theory. Maybe, Noctua is not happy with the natural convection intrinsic with this case. Perhaps too cramped inside?
(https://ncc.noctua.at/coolers/NH-P1-68/cases/Sliger). Anyway, this case needs to be looked into further, passing the clearance requirement.
 
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Valantar

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 20, 2018
2,201
2,225
I thought I'd share my experiences building a semi-passive APU (4650G) HTPC this past November. In short: these APUs are ridiculously easy to cool. Sadly I haven't had the time/energy/whatever to finish my build log (I've also yet to install the last custom top panel for my case, which is at least part of my excuse!). But I can share some experiences still.

My build: ASRock B550m ITX/ac, Ryzen 5 Pro 4650G (Ebay purchase), 16GB of DDR4-3200 (Micron rev.E), a single cheap 512GB NVMe SSD, Lazer3D HT5 case, MeanWell RPS-200-12C PSU + a G.Unique Archdaemon PicoPSU. This was a kind-of cost-down bulild focusing on finding the ideal balance of price, size, silence and performance. Overall, I think I nailed it. Yes, I am very humble :D The case might be too big for you, but IMO it's amazing due to its flexibility (can fit an LP GPU if you want, can easily fit an integrated PSU, has support for sufficiently tall coolers for semi-passive cooling, and Kevin at Lazer3D is incredibly flexible in whipping up custom ventilation patterns and the like if you want (or at least he was for me!)). This is the best-looking pic I have of the system mostly assembled, though this is non-final, and I use the PC mounted horizontally and not vertically like shown.

That thick fan takes up a lot of space:


The janky part of my build: I'm using a modified (read: rather mangled) Arctic Accelero S1 passive GPU cooler as a CPU cooler, with custom laser cut aluminium mounting hardware. It has a 140mm Noctua fan sitting on top of it (exhausting out the top panel), which turns off when the CPU is below 65°C. That's easily >90% of the time, and it even shuts off periodically while gaming! As I said, this APU is ridiculously easy to cool. This PC never really sees sustained CPU loads, but it handles them excellently from when I've stressed it. I would imagine a Noctua L12S would be able to keep it very cool, though its passive performance might not be as good due to its denser fin array. Still, I would be shocked if a setup like that wasn't very quiet.

As for that mangled heatsink: this is what I had to do to fit the 140x25mm fan and the ArchDaemon:

Yeah, that part isn't pretty. Though it does say something about how durable heatpipes are :p The RAM is also squeezed in between the fins. So, going for an off-the-shelf cooler like the L12S is probably a better bet!

I run my CPU at stock, with the RAM OC'd to 3800MT/s and IF at 1:1/1900MHz. As mentioned above, the fan only kicks in if the CPU exceeds 65°C, which doesn't really happen at all in regular HTPC use, and when I play some Rocket League (runs great at 1600x900 medium or 1080p low-ish with FreeSync delivering a smooth ~90fps) the fan goes between off and on every minute or so. It runs ridiculously cool for what it is.

The 200W RPS-200-12C is more than sufficient for powering this build - the highest power draw I've measured at the wall (with a +/- 5W margin of error according to my cheap meter) is ~110W when stressing both the CPU and GPU, with the memory and IF clocked high. The PSU is rated for more than that entirely passively, so the single fan in the system only kicking in under load should work excellently.


So, my recommendation would definitely to go for a 5600G when it arrives, as keeping it cool silently should be relatively simple. You can always get a smaller build than mine, but it won't be silent - a DeskMini with an NH-L9a is decently quiet, but definitely not silent. And under load those 92mm Noctuas get rather loud IMO. Fine for a slim 92mm fan, don't get me wrong, but it's not a low rpm 120-140mm fan.
 

oifrcz

Cable Smoosher
Original poster
Jul 15, 2021
8
2
Linear psus, are more for audiophile use, so the USB has less noise in its signal, it has no other benefits as far as I´m aware.
I could imagine another use case where linear PSUs are good choice is instrumentation: interfacing analogue sensor for obtaining physical quantities.
Neither use case is applicable in my case, I'll stick with conventional switching-mode options.
there is a new noctua passive CPU cooler that could manage what you want to cool. Although I would always place a case fan that begins to spin with a CPU temp of ... 70 degress or so... just in case.
Yes, I came across this recent NH-P1 model, and it seems an excellent passive design by Noctua.
Also I agree with your concept of semi-passive operation. Even though I want noiseless, doesn't mean no fan must be present at all.
<history mode>Man! it's already 15 years ago when I got fed up with my last water-cooled build (nasty pump vibrations and water leaks) and moved back to air cooling. I bought some heatpipe-based coolers for CPU and GPU. Then I discovered the fan won't spin at all at normal loads. I simply coupled the PSU + CPU fan and ended up with an noiseless system during work, writing, browsing and movies, etc. And those only two fans kept still very quiet for gaming.
Then I went to the world of Macintoshs...</history mode>

~110W when stressing both the CPU and GPU, with the memory and IF clocked high. The PSU is rated for more than that entirely passively, so the single fan in the system only kicking in under load should work excellently.
Thanks for sharing your experience @Valantar !
I believe nowaday's the CPU\APU have got much more advanced Dynamic Voltage and Frequency Scaling per core, and I also saw on some BIOS screenshots that there is a setting for the max. TDP (sorry I don't know the technical terms for that currently used). So, for me this means better buy a more performant APU and then fine-tune the max allowed heat dissipation according to the system cooling capabilities and acceptable noise level. --> Does this idea make sense to you?

My favorite is a "HiFi" style cases.
Streacom's designs look amazing, technically and aesthetically, but I find the H1 is too little and the H3, H5 too large. I also found the Turemetal DP2.
I'm now working out the BOM based on a Mini-ITX board and the Streacom FC5.
I like having the option of an optical drive inside. I'd get the GIGABYTE B550I AORUS Pro AX, which seems to have best thermal performance (see Ali Sayed's review) and I like the fact that it comes with a backplate, as well as passive, heatpipe-based cooling for the M.2 SSD and VRM circuitry components.

Two point on height clearance:
  • The FC5 is 64 mm in height (external). I should be able to fit a single SFX PSU inside. I foudn this industrial model which allows 24/7 semi-passive operation: SFX SFB 300W by Seasonic.
    • With some milling of the case's base plate and/or removal of 1-2 walls of that PSU (63.5 mm height), this should fit in tightly. The internal fan would then be the only one kicking in at high loads.
    • Another step of improvement could be deshrouding this PSU, kicking out the 80 mm fan, and setting up some air-flow path with an 120 or 140 mm fan instead.
  • Do I need to find specific RAM modules?
    Some where I read about low-profile ones, but how do I find out if standard-size ones would fit?
 
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paulesko

Master of Cramming
Jul 31, 2019
415
322
The idea for the psu is nice. I have an Ncase M1 with a silverstone 800w psu, I took out the fan and deshrouded the psu itself so I could fit a 60mm radiator on the side, the psu works fine until long loads on excess of 550 w or so. You just have to look for a very efficient unit, and overpower it for your needs.

On the RAM I´d say you´ll be just fine if you don´t go with extra high led bling-bling modules. Just choose normal modules. The inside height available is the thickness of the motherboard (around 45mm) take that in mind when choosing your ram and your good to go. Also you could put the RAM heatsinks out and undervolt it in case the modules are too high.