Cooling High Performance SFF (kinda) Cooler on Indiegogo

[esplin2966]

Saw this on buildapcsales today:


What do you guys think? I'm cautiously optimistic, but until I see performance comparisons with specific cooler models, I'm gonna reserve judgement.

 

[Phuncz]

EDIT: after some research and comments, I've chosen to edit my comment.

This looks like a scam.

Let's start the analysis: it basically claims to be better than AIOs and coolers twice the size, without ever explaining how or why:

• Integrated solid-state cooling technology—Actively lowers CPU temperature

Apparently they have a commercially viable heatpump that's more efficient than Peltier.

• Liquid cooling performance without water—Because water and electricity don’t mix

Random claim with a one-liner.

• Variable Assist Cooling—Keeps CPU temperature cool during extreme processor loads

Another random claim, what's "cool", at what loads on which CPU, at what fan speed ?

• Exceptional cooling performance in a small form factor—Fits inside mini-ITX box without compromising cooling performance

Random claim.

• Whisper quiet fan mode—Smart CPU temperature management with reduced fan speed.

And yet again a random claim.

The Phononic HEX 1.0: A Silent Refrigerator for Your CPU.

Are you pushing your CPU to the limit? Do you know what it is like to smell smoke yada yada...

So what the heck does that mean? Simply put, we started over and leveraged Phononic’s SilverCoreTM technology: high performance solid-state cooling devices, heat sinks, and electronics. We didn’t stop there.

I'm amazed they could fit this revolutionary heatpump in such a small area and still only somehow need a tiny heatsink.

We wanted a smart cooling system that is electrically efficient and delivers performance only when needed. So we ran some numbers, created sophisticated models, ordered lunch, and challenged our engineers to solve the problem. The answer is Variable Assist Cooling (VAC); a mini control board that automatically responds to the thermal demands of your CPU, cooling the processor, and adjusting the fan based on your performance needs. Thermal muscle when you need it, quiet performance when you don't.

LOL at bad attempt to relate to consumers. I guess the "thermal muscle" is the fan going way beyond quiet.

With Variable Assist Cooling (VAC), users can maximize thermal performance and minimize the power and noise associated with ever-changing CPU loads. The proprietary heat sink design moves heat through one of two dissipation paths – one acting as a highly efficient fan heat sink and the second utilizing a Phononic SilverCoreTM heat pump, when combined, greatly reducing CPU temperatures.

Ah yes, the talk about a heatpump. It still only tackles the heat generated by the CPU, not the heat needing to be dissipated by the heatsink.

As the processor load increases and the temperature starts to rise, the Phononic HEX 1.0 VAC control system activates the built-in cooling element to respond with a proportionate level of heat pumping, resulting in a lower CPU temperature. When the load on the CPU decreases, the heat pump will turn off and the CPU cooler will continue to perform as a high performance fan heat sink.

Their high-performance heat sink is the issue I have the most trouble with: it looks like just another dinky $20 heatsink with a high-speed fan, claiming revolutionary performance and quiet operation.

 

[Vittra]

Nonsense product. I don't like the way the campaign has been laid out. No actual working prototype thus no true statistical data on performance. Lots of marketing speak. No real true information on the tech behind this product. Checked out their site, don't see any actual products released as of yet... did a google search and actually found this heatsink has been been in discussion on [H] already:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1873091

 

[Phuncz]

Oh it keeps on giving:

Hydrate Yourself, Not Your Computer.

Water and electricity should never mix. Period. Protect your equipment and yourself, and eliminate water from your investment. While you’re at it, remove the risk of you—or someone else—losing a finger by eliminating external facing fans. Our cooler chills using a Phononic solid-state heat pump (water-free) which comes with an integrated 80mm fan with fully enclosed blades. Safety first, right? Not to mention that ear plugs won’t be needed—this puppy is quiet.

Read that last underlined part and then look at this:

Fan Specifications:

• Dimension: 80x80x25mm
• Connector: 4-PIN PWM
• Bearing Type: Two Ball Bearings
• Voltage Rating/Power: 12VDC/5.76W Maximum power
• RPM: 4500RPM Maximum
• Air Flow: 67.02 CFM Maximum
• Noise Level: 48.6 dB-A
• Max Static Pressure: 9.955 mm H2O
• MTTF: 70,000 hours

But what strange contraption is this:

Electronic Control Specifications:

• Mounting: PCIe slot with included bracket (no PCIe electrical connection)
• Motherboard Connections: CPU fan (either 3-wire or 4-wire fan connections are supported)
• Power Connections: Standard 4-pin IDE power cable
• Required voltages: (from 4-pin IDE connection) = 5, 12VDC
• Dimensions: 100mm x 38.1mm (excluding mounting bracket)

Features:

• Three colored LED status indicators provide visual display of the electronic controls
• Fan speed can be optimized by the user by varying a knob on the control board

So it includes a PCIe dummy card with LEDs and a potentiometer.

 

[Necere]

@Phuncz, it makes a lot more sense when you understand they're talking about an integrated Peltier. That's what they're referring to with "solid state" and "heat pump." The page on the "SilverCore" technology on their website clearly point to that.

It's not a total scam, at least as far as I can tell, but like I said on [H], it probably won't perform any better than a conventional heatsink.

 

[Phuncz]

Yeah I saw it mentioned on [H] too. Slapping a minor Peltier is not going to put a dent in temps and a larger one needs muchos cooling, that this little sinky with 80mm fan won't be able to supply.

 

[jtd871]

You have to wonder how they justified this thing working. I'm guessing that they slipped a decimal point or forgot to convert between imperial and metric somewhere along the way. If this concept really did miracles in that sort of form factor, you would think that smarter and better-financed people would have brought this sort of thing to market - if only for the lucrative enterprise dollars - by now.

 

[EdZ]

If it IS a Peltier (or other powered heat-pump) then it's going to be an energy hog, and have a really screaming fan.

If it's expected to cool an 85W TDP part, that's 85W you need to pump into the Peltier (assuming a 100% efficient peltier) just to break eve - i.e. have the CPU not get any hotter after you slap the Peltier on it. For an actual improvement in cooling, you;d need an even more powerful Peltier.
And all that power ends up as heat on the 'hot' side of the Peltier, along with the heat from a CPU. Your 85W cooler now has to handle a minimum of 170W of head at load, with a single 80mm fan to cool the thing!

 

[jeshikat]

From the comments on the Indiegogo page:

As for power and condensation:
Under low CPU load, the only power consumed by the cooler is for the fan running at low speed. When the cooling demand is greater, the Variable Assist Cooling activates a thermoelectric module that uses 15W or 60W depending on the CPU load/temp.

Great question about condensation – that is the beauty of Variable Assist Cooling! It prevents the cooler from operating under conditions where condensation would occur, so there are no issues with condensation.

Looks like the front fin stack handles the bulk of the cooling and the rear fin stack cools the hot side of the thermoelectric, so the thermoelectric isn't responsible for all the cooling.

A neat concept but I'd like to see independent verification of their claims.

 

[confusis]

Interesting... but yeah, seems dubious. Would be interesting to stress test the unit..

In saying that, I have recently used a 80mm tower cooler that could actually keep a 125w AMD FX CPU below 50 degrees - http://www.deepcool.com/product/cpucooler/2014-05/7_869.shtml
(I may do a review soon)

 

[Phuncz]

I found better pictures over here: https://phononic.com/cpucooler/

If it was a genuinely true product, they wouldn't claim it's a quiet cooler, only to slap a 80mm 4500rpm fan on it.
Not that it needs to run at that speed, but to be even considered quiet, it would need to be running between 500 and 1000rpm max, at which point you'd chose a fan that is designed close to that range.

Dumping a lot of heat in just the tiny heatsink mass is also not going to work, as physics and experience has tought us. Like EdZ says, the highly inefficient nature of Peltier elements is hard to ignore. These used to be slapped to proper watercooling rigs to get a little more out of them but in the end due to their extremely inefficient setup and requirement of a seperate PSU (this only requires one Molex, so about 120W max) most people stopped looking at these.

But they are claiming best-in-class solid-state heatpump performance, so unless everything about them is a scam, there might be something there. But still, why would a company, who has press-releases about a revolutionary solid-state medical freezer, suddenly walk into the low-margin market of consumer electronics ? And with such vague claims, dubious design choices and superficial marketing, it doesn't quite convince.

In saying that, I have recently used a 80mm tower cooler that could actually keep a 125w AMD FX CPU below 50 degrees - http://www.deepcool.com/product/cpucooler/2014-05/7_869.shtml

Under load ? At what fan speeds ?

 

[confusis]

Under load ? At what fan speeds ?

100% load (rendering in Kerkythea on 8 cores) at full fan speed (Deepcool claims 2200rpm+ ~25DBa, I don't have a DB meter to test though!)

I also tested it on a Phenom 555BE (89w), Unlocked to quad core and overclocked to 4ghz. (approx 140w in the end) Similar results were to be had.

 

[Phuncz]

An 80mm fan at 2200rpm, I'd guess it would be closer to 30-35dB, which would make it annoyingly loud. Still, I'm amazed if this is inside a case.

 

[confusis]

It was inside an ATX case (Corsair 230T)

I'll try get a hold of a proper DB meter and do a proper review of it.

 

[iFreilicht]

Hey look, it's back. No called Phononic HEX 2.0, and allegedly available for 150 USD right now. Couldn't find it on a store, though.

 

[Phuncz]

I went back to their website a month ago and saw that one advertised, I'm still very sceptical about this brand because the marketing on this was profoundly vaporware-ish: promising revolution without any details or logic. I'd be amazed if this can best a decent air-cooler in most aspects (performance, price, noise, quality, install ease) and considering the price, it better be able to beat the top dogs.

 

[iFreilicht]

And apart from that, it comes with a 6-pin PEG connector, so it could draw up to 75W of additional power that would also have to be dissipated, right?

 

[Phuncz]

Even if it was able to transform hot to cold at 1:1 ratio and thus being 100% efficient, it would indeed need to dissipate the amount it compensates. They claim to have a highly efficient TEC ("heat exchanger"), but since we have yet to see proof I'm very sceptical about this claim.

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phononic-hex-2-thermoelectric-cpu-cooler,4665.html

Review is out.......

doesnt look so great

 

[Phuncz]

About three times as loud as a Noctua NH-U12S, almost three times as expensive, for comparable performance. I'm amazed it's not performing worse.