Help me decide between the Ncase M1 and the Sliger SM560?

[Secret-Misthios]

I posted this on Reddit, but I'll take as many opinions as I can get.

I've been going back and forth with current and upcoming designs and my needs, and I keep coming back to these two. Before we go any further, I can only get one of the two unfortunately lol.

Anyways, I won't be building into either right away. It will be in a few months or probably longer, I just want to get it now. My current GPU will fit into the SM560 but will not into the Ncase [for a three slot card its too long whereas its length would have been fine if it was dual slot]. Regardless, I'm not building into either until I upgrade the gpu. Like I said, I'd just like to have it now. Although I could get a dual slot card, I like the option of being able to buy longer or thicker cards. In that regard the SM560 allows a wider range of GPU while being about 2-3 liters smaller.

As for the CPU, due to the 55mm heatsink limit of the SM560 I'd be limited to 65w cpu, maybe 95w with higher bottom exhaust fan speeds. The Ncase would allow for a much bigger heatsink and possibly even 105w cpu. The option for a 240mm aio is nice, but having never messed with them, I'm not sure if I want to, but maybe? But either way, the option is nice. As is, in my current case I already spend an unhealthy amount of time running stress tests and checking temperatures and voltages for fun almost much as I game. That being said, my system is used primarily for gaming, currently at high refresh 1080p triple a games, and minor web browsing. Design wise I definitely like the look of the SM560 a bit more, specially the white vented case with black vented top/bottom. Would look great with the hopefully soon to be released Noctua 12x25 black fans with white corners to match the panels. The lack of a need for a riser is also a plus to me on the Ncase

As far as dimensions [and price] they're both about the same. I don't "need" anything to have to fit in a backpack, and I don't travel with them almost at all. However I do like being able to carry it from house to house or room to room without thinking it a chore. What are your thoughts?

P.S. The big reason why I'm not building sooner is because I have my stuff in a mid tower at the moment. And with relatively new components [and while mostly everything will fit] I rather not pony up for a mini itx motherboard and a corsair 750w sfx right away. I'll probably look into doing it when B550 motherboards come out next year. Specially since I'd like to keep my Ryzen 2600 [and MSI 2070 Gaming Z] at least until the release of 5nm. Thank you.

 

[tinyitx]

I would prefer the Ncase M1 over the SM560.
Reasons:-
a. M1 is listed as 12.6L vs SM560's 11L. 1.6L difference is nothing. Do not get bogged down by a numerical insignificance.
b. No need to deal with a riser is a big plus. One fewer item to pay for and to worry about long term reliability
c. SM560 might be able to take in a larger number of big cards but M1 can take in many as well. I think, as you are not going to put in your current card, you will still have a large number of higher end cards to choose from when you start this build. This does not sound like a critical factor.
d. M1 having a higher CPU cooler clearance is a strong plus, to me. SFF cases usually fall into the category of 'strong GPU-weak CPU' category. I think the better CPU cooling option of the M1 is important.

Of course, how good a case looks is quite subjective. And I leave this factor for you to weigh.

BTW, if you must buy now, M1 version 5 is not available as v.6 is coming out. Do not know how long you have to wait. Also, I do not know about the availability of the SM560 either.

 

[Secret-Misthios]

I would prefer the Ncase M1 over the SM560.
Reasons:-
a. M1 is listed as 12.6L vs SM560's 11L. 1.6L difference is nothing. Do not get bogged down by a numerical insignificance.
b. No need to deal with a riser is a big plus. One fewer item to pay for and to worry about long term reliability
c. SM560 might be able to take in a larger number of big cards but M1 can take in many as well. I think, as you are not going to put in your current card, you will still have a large number of higher end cards to choose from when you start this build. This does not sound like a critical factor.
d. M1 having a higher CPU cooler clearance is a strong plus, to me. SFF cases usually fall into the category of 'strong GPU-weak CPU' category. I think the better CPU cooling option of the M1 is important.

Of course, how good a case looks is quite subjective. And I leave this factor for you to weigh.

BTW, if you must buy now, M1 version 5 is not available as v.6 is coming out. Do not know how long you have to wait. Also, I do not know about the availability of the SM560 either.

Thanks. Yea I've been mulling this over a lot. Also in the Ncase thread they mentioned that some of the newer V6 would be sold without the io, which technically should remove the length limitation of the 3 slot cards from 279mm to the same 317mm of the 2 slot. Hopefully that means the height too goes from 111mm to 140mm. I can do without the front io if it increases drastically the amount of cards I can use.

Seems like the Ncase is up for preorder and the SM is available for purchase already. All else being perfect I was hoping to make a purchase/preorder come July.

 

[Bioforce]

Thanks. Yea I've been mulling this over a lot. Also in the Ncase thread they mentioned that some of the newer V6 would be sold without the io, which technically should remove the length limitation of the 3 slot cards from 279mm to the same 317mm of the 2 slot. Hopefully that means the height too goes from 111mm to 140mm. I can do without the front io if it increases drastically the amount of cards I can use.

Seems like the Ncase is up for preorder and the SM is available for purchase already. All else being perfect I was hoping to make a purchase/preorder come July.

My biggest qualm with the Ncase M1 is the limited room for case fans if you use a 3 slot GPU. While it technically can use a 3 slot card, you won't fit any fans under it, meaning your only case fan if you decide to air cool will be the rear 92mm. Personally I would only recommend the Ncase M1 if you plan to use liquid cooling. It can side mount a 240mm radiator, and if you run it as exhaust it will work together with the GPU to pull fresh air into the case. The SM560 seems a better choice if you want to air cool. It can fit two 120mm case fans and has ample ventilation for the GPU and CPU cooler all while being smaller than the Ncase.

 

[Secret-Misthios]

The aio option is nice, but having never used it I keep being unsure about it. Same reason I was skeptical for bigger options like the 580. Only real downside to the 560 is the limitation in processor tdp that comes from inherent limitations in smaller form factors. But alas 95w should be okay with bottom 120s and even an l9a. Black ridge and cryorig are elusive enough and a bit obscure compared to noctua. And I suppose in the end for largely gaming purposes the need for a stronger GPU outweighs the need of a stronger CPU where a good one would suffice.

 

[rfarmer]

Thanks. Yea I've been mulling this over a lot. Also in the Ncase thread they mentioned that some of the newer V6 would be sold without the io, which technically should remove the length limitation of the 3 slot cards from 279mm to the same 317mm of the 2 slot. Hopefully that means the height too goes from 111mm to 140mm. I can do without the front io if it increases drastically the amount of cards I can use.

Seems like the Ncase is up for preorder and the SM is available for purchase already. All else being perfect I was hoping to make a purchase/preorder come July.

Question about 3 slot GPU length was asked in the Ncase thread and as @Necere pointed out even though there is no front IO there is still a power button. Refer to this picture.

Depending on if the GPU is 2.5 or 3.0 slot you have 294mm to 299mm in the 3rd slot.

 

[Secret-Misthios]

Yea, just saw that today since I was the one that asked him. It's not much more but just a little more.

 

[tinyitx]

May I ask, how did you narrow down to these 2 cases? I mean, what other cases that were originally in your list of consideration but then later ruled out? I am just curious.

 

[threestripevida]

I'm struggling to decide between these two as well. The CPU cooler restrictions had me leaning towards the Ncase, but this video
doesn't show much of a difference from the Cryorig C7 vs the U9S. I guess you could still fit an Accelero 3 into the 560. I'm just not sure how would mount the fans. I'm leaning towards the 560 over the Ncase personally.

 

[Secret-Misthios]

May I ask, how did you narrow down to these 2 cases? I mean, what other cases that were originally in your list of consideration but then later ruled out? I am just curious.

I just chose what I thought would fit my needs and wants the most. Theres a lot of GPU over two slots now, and the best cooling ones are naturally those too. I also already have a 2.75 slot gpu. I wanted something a bit smaller than my current mid tower [40L]. And the case design should be able to allow for enough airflow and cooling to keep a 65w cpu fine or even a stock 95w. I also have a preference for no risers, as it does away with the need of getting new ones that support new pcie versions like now. And while probably just me, it's one less point of failure.

 

[quetzacoatlx]

I posted this on Reddit, but I'll take as many opinions as I can get.

I've been going back and forth with current and upcoming designs and my needs, and I keep coming back to these two. Before we go any further, I can only get one of the two unfortunately lol.

Anyways, I won't be building into either right away. It will be in a few months or probably longer, I just want to get it now. My current GPU will fit into the SM560 but will not into the Ncase [for a three slot card its too long whereas its length would have been fine if it was dual slot]. Regardless, I'm not building into either until I upgrade the gpu. Like I said, I'd just like to have it now. Although I could get a dual slot card, I like the option of being able to buy longer or thicker cards. In that regard the SM560 allows a wider range of GPU while being about 2-3 liters smaller.

As for the CPU, due to the 55mm heatsink limit of the SM560 I'd be limited to 65w cpu, maybe 95w with higher bottom exhaust fan speeds. The Ncase would allow for a much bigger heatsink and possibly even 105w cpu. The option for a 240mm aio is nice, but having never messed with them, I'm not sure if I want to, but maybe? But either way, the option is nice. As is, in my current case I already spend an unhealthy amount of time running stress tests and checking temperatures and voltages for fun almost much as I game. That being said, my system is used primarily for gaming, currently at high refresh 1080p triple a games, and minor web browsing. Design wise I definitely like the look of the SM560 a bit more, specially the white vented case with black vented top/bottom. Would look great with the hopefully soon to be released Noctua 12x25 black fans with white corners to match the panels. The lack of a need for a riser is also a plus to me on the Ncase

As far as dimensions [and price] they're both about the same. I don't "need" anything to have to fit in a backpack, and I don't travel with them almost at all. However I do like being able to carry it from house to house or room to room without thinking it a chore. What are your thoughts?

P.S. The big reason why I'm not building sooner is because I have my stuff in a mid tower at the moment. And with relatively new components [and while mostly everything will fit] I rather not pony up for a mini itx motherboard and a corsair 750w sfx right away. I'll probably look into doing it when B550 motherboards come out next year. Specially since I'd like to keep my Ryzen 2600 [and MSI 2070 Gaming Z] at least until the release of 5nm. Thank you.

Once the volume reaches 10L, the advantage of sandwich structures diminishes. That's why almost all successful A4-like cases are below this volume.

 

[Secret-Misthios]

Once the volume reaches 10L, the advantage of sandwich structures diminishes. That's why almost all successful A4-like cases are below this volume.

The only concern is that I dont know of any available sandwich style cases under 10L that can fit up to a 3 slot GPU, and that's a hard requirement for me.

 

[Bioforce]

Once the volume reaches 10L, the advantage of sandwich structures diminishes. That's why almost all successful A4-like cases are below this volume.

The advantages of the SM580 are still pretty considerable. The main thing is just how much airflow it allows for. It has very good intake AND exhaust, which is rare for any SFF case, and is the smallest case I'm aware of that allows for a 280mm AIO, but on top of that has room for a 120mm radiator as well. On top of that, it allows for that excellent airflow while also having window panels. The Ncase, for example, has no intake fans and only a 92mm exhaust if you go window panel with a 3-slot GPU, assuming your 3-slot GPU also meets the Ncases limited height requirements.

Basically, the SM580 makes no sacrifices in airflow, cooling compatibility, or aesthetics with it's two window panels, while still managing to be about 20% smaller than the 20L goalpost SFF builders try to stay under. Overall, I think it makes very good use of the sandwich layout despite being in double-digit liters. It just isn't intended for people that are maticulous about having the smallest case possible.

3 slot GPU, and that's a hard requirement for me.

In case you're interested, riba2233 is making a very interesting full ATX case which is 13L and supports 3 slot GPU's. The thread is currently dedicated to a smaller 9L 2-slot GPU full ATX case he is making, but he mentions that there will be a 3-slot version down the line. It looks VERY nice. The only caveat seems to be that if you want to use an AIO, there will be limitations on how long your card can be, but he hasn't published that limitation yet.

 

[quetzacoatlx]

The advantages of the SM580 are still pretty considerable. The main thing is just how much airflow it allows for. It has very good intake AND exhaust, which is rare for any SFF case, and is the smallest case I'm aware of that allows for a 280mm AIO, but on top of that has room for a 120mm radiator as well. On top of that, it allows for that excellent airflow while also having window panels. The Ncase, for example, has no intake fans and only a 92mm exhaust if you go window panel with a 3-slot GPU, assuming your 3-slot GPU also meets the Ncases limited height requirements.

Basically, the SM580 makes no sacrifices in airflow, cooling compatibility, or aesthetics with it's two window panels, while still managing to be about 20% smaller than the 20L goalpost SFF builders try to stay under. Overall, I think it makes very good use of the sandwich layout despite being in double-digit liters. It just isn't intended for people that are maticulous about having the smallest case possible.



In case you're interested, riba2233 is making a very interesting full ATX case which is 13L and supports 3 slot GPU's. The thread is currently dedicated to a smaller 9L 2-slot GPU full ATX case he is making, but he mentions that there will be a 3-slot version down the line. It looks VERY nice. The only caveat seems to be that if you want to use an AIO, there will be limitations on how long your card can be, but he hasn't published that limitation yet.

SM580 is 16.5L, which is almost 1/3 larger than the M1. We were talking about SM560, not 580.

SM580 is pretty close to the chimera cerberus in size. The latter can house multiple 240 radiators with mini-itx motherboards.

 

[Boil]

SM580 is pretty close to the chimera cerberus in size. The latter can house multiple 240 radiators with mini-itx motherboards.

• Single Radiator Options
• 1x 120mm radiator in bottom or front
• 1x 140mm radiator in bottom or front
• 1x 240mm radiator in bottom
• 1x 280mm radiator in bottom
• Dual Radiator Options
• 2x 120mm or 140mm radiators in bottom, or bottom/front.
• 1x 240mm or 280mm radiator in bottom w/ 25mm fans + 1x 120mm or 140mm radiator in front top of case
• Thickness of radiator on front of case + thickness radiator fans + GPU length must equal less than 330mm total.
• Recommended to purchase a low profile USB 3.0 motherboard header adapter for 280mm radiators in bottom of case.

Cerberus only supports mutiple 240 rads if one mods the motherboard tray & the back of the chassis to drop the ITX motherboard down one slot...

I have read a singular statement on Reddit where the poster claims that an ITX / dual 240 rad specific Cerberus rework was, well, in the works...

But I have yet to get any hint of confirmation from @KSliger, hopefully it will actually be a thing someday...?

 

[Bioforce]

SM580 is 16.5L, which is almost 1/3 larger than the M1. We were talking about SM560, not 580.

SM580 is pretty close to the chimera cerberus in size. The latter can house multiple 240 radiators with mini-itx motherboards.

Yes, but the SM580 was a more extreme example of a >10L sandwich style case with solid advantages. The SM580 allows almost as much radiator space with a 280mm and a 120mm (400mm collectively vs the Cerberus' 480mm) despite the Cerberus being about 21% larger. As well, the Cerberus has terrible exhaust options, a fact that the designer himself has mentioned in the Cerberus thread. It can vary depending on your configuration, but the exhaust options pretty much come down to a slim 25mm x 15mm fan on top and a 92mm in the rear.

My point in that last comment was more just that we shouldn't discount sandwich style cases that are >10L. It seems silly to me to disregard the SM560 just because it doesn't meet some arbitrary size goalpost. It performs very well with a triple slot GPU, compared to the Ncase which cooks 3-slot GPU's alive due to the airflow limitations.

Edit: As Boil pointed out, the 480mm total is only with major case modding. By default it actually supports just as much radiator space as the SM580 despite a 21% size difference. +1 to big sandwich cases.

 

[Boil]

Edit: As Boil pointed out, the 480mm total is only with major case modding. By default it actually supports just as much radiator space as the SM580 despite a 21% size difference. +1 to big sandwich cases.

To be fair, that 21% size difference allows a mATX motherboard versus the mITX of the SM580...

 

[Bioforce]

To be fair, that 21% size difference allows a mATX motherboard versus the mITX of the SM580...

Absolutely. They all have their pro's and cons. Again, my point was just that sandwich cases shouldn't be discounted purely because they're above 10 liters. They still have clear benefits.

 

[quetzacoatlx]

Absolutely. They all have their pro's and cons. Again, my point was just that sandwich cases shouldn't be discounted purely because they're above 10 liters. They still have clear benefits.

For a large enough case it doesn't matter what structure it is. A 50L sandwich case would definitely provide enough room for a ton of radiators.

But as to the size of a M1 or SM560/580, M1 can already mount 1x240mm and 1x90mm AIO at only 3/4 the volume. If an additional 30% volume is given the M1 XL can easily house 2x240mm radiator (actually it can even be done in the original 12.6 M1 with custom loop). Spoken of custom loop, it is another disadvantage of the sandwich structure since there is little room for a reservoir.