CPU Advice - I'm Thoroughly Confused

[Jbtamu1011]

Howdy all,

First time posting on here. I've been reading through a lot of posts since I purchased a Ncase M1 to eventually build my next PC in. Anyways, that leads me into my question regarding Intel or AMD CPU for a sff build. I've researched many different sites, including this one. I've become more confused with what I've read. Decided to ask myself and pick your brains.

I mainly play games and watch videos. My monitor is the Dell 27" 1440p 144hz. Games I play include but not limited to: The Battlefields, PUBG, Doom, Starcraft II, Diablo 3, Dark Souls, the Fallout games. That's the main intensive games.

Question is: at the resolution and refresh rate of my monitor, is there really going to be a big difference in performance between Intel or AMD CPU?

Also, is overclocking possible with only a 600W PSU given my future build specs?

Current PC:

• CPU: i5-4670K stock (4 years old)
• GPU: EVGA 1080 Ti SC2 Gaming (brand new)
• MBU: ASUS Maximus VI Hero Z87 chipset (4 years old)
• RAM: G.Skill Ares 16GB DDR3-1600 (4 years old)
• Boot Drive: 840 EVO 500GB (4 years old)
• Storage: WD Black 2 TB HDD (4 years old) &
• Storage: WD Blue 500GB SSD (brand new)
• PSU: Seasonic SS-750KM3 750W 80+ Gold (6 years old)
• Cooler: NZXT Kraken X52 revision 2 (new)

Future Build:

• Storage: 840 EVO and WD Blue SSD
• CPU: AMD or Intel?
• Motherboard: either X470 or Z370 chipset
• GPU: EVGA 1080 Ti SC2 Gaming
• RAM: 16GB of at least DDR4-3000 memory.
• Case: Ncase M1
• Cooler: keep my Kraken X52
• PSU: Corsair SF600 Gold or Platinum

Thanks for all the help and advice in advance!!

 

[Elerek]

Honestly, unless you really care about sticking to that 144 fps in every game, there probably isn't much of a difference. Technically intel is still ahead in single thread performance, so an overclocked 8[6/7]00k will get you higher frame rates than a ryzen chip, but not by much.

As for psu, you're probably fine. My 8700k (4.8 ghz) and gtx 1080 are only drawing ~350 watts in combined cpu and gpu stress tests.

 

[el01]

Do you work/go to school? If so, what do you do there? AMD would be better if you don't just game/will do other things in the future, but Intel still holds "better" gaming performance.

Either way, the PSU should be enough as long as you aren't overclocking a i9-7980XE...
http://www.coolermaster.com/power-supply-calculator/

It calculated 528W with a i7-7700K at a 1GHz overclock across all cores.
Use this for confirmation, since the Kraken X52 isn't available as an option, use any cooler there you see fit!

There may be around 5% less performance in AMD due to lower single-core performance, but realistically, with frame rates over 100 FPS most of the time, you really wouldn't notice a 5% drop in frame rate, unless you run heavily unoptimized titles.

With an AMD processor, you actually might not want to overclock if you get a 2000-series non-APU model (2600, 2600x, 2700, 2700x). The XFR2 (eXtended Frequency Range version 2) boost on those processors dynamically scales with temperature, and given the cooling capacity of your Kraken X52, the processors will "overclock" themselves pretty high. If you do overclock a 2000-series processor, note that there will be no boost clock overclock (most of the time). This can be confirmed on Google/YouTube if you search for "Ryzen 2700x(example) overclocked vs. stock performance".)

 

[Jbtamu1011]

Honestly, unless you really care about sticking to that 144 fps in every game, there probably isn't much of a difference. Technically intel is still ahead in single thread performance, so an overclocked 8[6/7]00k will get you higher frame rates than a ryzen chip, but not by much.

As for psu, you're probably fine. My 8700k (4.8 ghz) and gtx 1080 are only drawing ~350 watts in combined cpu and gpu stress tests.

Thanks Elerek for the input. If it's not that much difference in FPS, AMD looks interesting to me due to the fact AM4 will be compatible with future CPU's when they come out. I don't always have to have 144fps in ever single game, but I want the game to look great while still having good FPS. Preferably 80+ FPS

Do you work/go to school? If so, what do you do there? AMD would be better if you don't just game/will do other things in the future, but Intel still holds "better" gaming performance.

Either way, the PSU should be enough as long as you aren't overclocking a i9-7980XE...
http://www.coolermaster.com/power-supply-calculator/

It calculated 528W with a i7-7700K at a 1GHz overclock across all cores.
Use this for confirmation, since the Kraken X52 isn't available as an option, use any cooler there you see fit!

There may be around 5% less performance in AMD due to lower single-core performance, but realistically, with frame rates over 100 FPS most of the time, you really wouldn't notice a 5% drop in frame rate, unless you run heavily unoptimized titles.

With an AMD processor, you actually might not want to overclock if you get a 2000-series non-APU model (2600, 2600x, 2700, 2700x). The XFR2 (eXtended Frequency Range version 2) boost on those processors dynamically scales with temperature, and given the cooling capacity of your Kraken X52, the processors will "overclock" themselves pretty high. If you do overclock a 2000-series processor, note that there will be no boost clock overclock (most of the time). This can be confirmed on Google/YouTube if you search for "Ryzen 2700x(example) overclocked vs. stock performance".)

el01, I work but I don't work at home. Since Ryzen has come out, especially the 2000 series, I've been intrigued with trying but always a doubt since it's a multi-year investment for me (see current system). I really don't know what I could do that would utilize AMD to it's potential. Streaming games is pretty much out of the question, for now. I've read and seen benchmarks showing that there really isn't much of a difference in CPU performance as you increase resolution. Tell me if I misunderstood those stats. Also, good to know about how Ryzen XFR2 boost works.

 

[rusty815]

I love Ryzen, especially the 2000 series, due to how easy it is to cool the non X processors. Even the X processors Can do well, I have a 2600X in a Mini ITX case (although im waiting for a Custom Mod SFX Mini 5.9L case) and Even with a Noctua NH-L9a-AM4 I can keep it sufficiently cool at stock settings. If youre planning a 1440p or 4k build, get a ryzen cpu so you have no problems with temps, and the extra cores will definitely come in handy if you ever do plan to stream.

 

[jtd871]

Reasons to go Ryzen:
1) Better headroom for future multithreaded applications
2) Cost competitive with Intel and includes a decent boxed air cooler (if that matters)
3) Performance scales well with faster memory (since the faster RAM is on your list)
4) Unlocked
5) Are apparently quite decent undervolters
6) Better future upgrade / downgrade socket compatibility than Intel
7) You aren't spending money on "dead silicon" (integrated graphics) that you'll likely never use
8) StoreMI is included with X470 chipset and apparently works quite well

 

[el01]

Thanks Elerek for the input. If it's not that much difference in FPS, AMD looks interesting to me due to the fact AM4 will be compatible with future CPU's when they come out. I don't always have to have 144fps in ever single game, but I want the game to look great while still having good FPS. Preferably 80+ FPS



el01, I work but I don't work at home. Since Ryzen has come out, especially the 2000 series, I've been intrigued with trying but always a doubt since it's a multi-year investment for me (see current system). I really don't know what I could do that would utilize AMD to it's potential. Streaming games is pretty much out of the question, for now. I've read and seen benchmarks showing that there really isn't much of a difference in CPU performance as you increase resolution. Tell me if I misunderstood those stats. Also, good to know about how Ryzen XFR2 boost works.

Do you have any "intensive" hobbies other than gaming? Not to be intrusive, but if you do some video editing, the iGPU on Intel does provide a bit of a boost in such situations. Ryzen, IMO, is the better platform overall, especially considering that Intel is kinda choking with the 9000-series processors ("Get yours today! Only improvement? 0.1GHz base clock boost!"). @jtd871 outlined some really good points in his comment, but I would also like to mention that for EXOC users, X470 doesn't really have motherboards with both excellent VRMs and excellent BIOS, especially in ITX. If you do want to overclock higher, I strongly suggest pointing fans at the VRM heatsinks to dissipate additional heat from the system. Hope this was helpful!
-el01

 

[Jbtamu1011]

I can't believe all the extremely helpful info everyone has provided!! Thanks! I don't have any other computer hobbies. I would be interested in video editing if I wind up getting a drone that I've always had an eye on. Maybe getting Ryzen would make me more apt to pick up another hobby. I think I would let Ryzen boost the frequency instead of manually setting an overclock after you mentioned how that worked, @el01

Now my question, which Ryzen CPU: 2600X or 2700X? What X470 MB would you suggest for mITX? I know there isn't many to choose from.

 

[rusty815]

Since youre planning to use an AIO, you shouldn't have much trouble cooling a 2700X, if you don't plan on manually overclocking the an X sku is your best option. The best mITX motherboard on the market is the Asus ROG Strix X470-i, it has the best VRM to handle an 8 core and is packed with the most features, The Asrock X470 ITX/AC is good too, but keep in mind that its only a 3 phase VRM so a 2700X may not do as well in it since PB2 depends on both good cooling and good power delivery.

 

[jtd871]

I'd go 2600X for value unless you've just got to have a 2700X.

 

[Jbtamu1011]

I'd go 2600X for value unless you've just got to have a 2700X.

I think it would have to be a 2600X over 2700X based on the price. Big difference there.

 

[rfarmer]

I have a 8700k and it really is a great processor, games really well. Problem with it is I had to upgrade to a z370 motherboard in order to run it even though I had a perfectly good z270 that should have been able to run it. Odds are good that any future upgrades I do will also require a new motherboard. At least you know with AMD you will be good for a least a couple generations with the current socket.

 

[Jbtamu1011]

So I think I have a future build now in mind that I will start saving up for the items I don't have. Let me know if there are any tweaks that could be made that could make it better or missing something.

Future Build:

• Boot and Storage: 840 EVO 500GB and WD Blue 500GB SSD (already have)
• CPU: Ryzen 2600X
• Motherboard: ASUS STRIX X470-i
• GPU: EVGA 1080 Ti SC2 Gaming (already have)
• RAM: Corsair Vengence LPX 16GB DDR4-3000 memory
• Case: Ncase M1 (already have)
• Cooler: Kraken X52 v2 (already have)
• PSU: Corsair SF600 Gold or Platinum
• Custom length cables
• 2x 120mm Fans under GPU (buy new or already have)

 

[el01]

So I think I have a future build now in mind that I will start saving up for the items I don't have. Let me know if there are any tweaks that could be made that could make it better or missing something.

Future Build:

• Boot and Storage: 840 EVO 500GB and WD Blue 500GB SSD (already have)
• CPU: Ryzen 2600X
• Motherboard: ASUS STRIX X470-i
• GPU: EVGA 1080 Ti SC2 Gaming (already have)
• RAM: Corsair Vengence LPX 16GB DDR4-3000 memory
• Case: Ncase M1 (already have)
• Cooler: Kraken X52 v2 (already have)
• PSU: Corsair SF600 Gold or Platinum
• Custom length cables
• 2x 120mm Fans under GPU (buy new or already have)

The X470 Strix may be a bit overkill, but if you like it, I couldn't be happier for you. I would really wait for B450, given that most of the "premium" features on X470 don't really work on ITX (SLI, more SATA, more M.2, "better" overclocking [not that you need it]), etc. If you're into StoreMI and B450 won't support it, then you might as well YOLO and get an X470.

If only ASRock made X470 Taichi ITX boards--VRMs and features would be amazing then...

 

[Jbtamu1011]

The X470 Strix may be a bit overkill, but if you like it, I couldn't be happier for you. I would really wait for B450, given that most of the "premium" features on X470 don't really work on ITX (SLI, more SATA, more M.2, "better" overclocking [not that you need it]), etc. If you're into StoreMI and B450 won't support it, then you might as well YOLO and get an X470.

If only ASRock made X470 Taichi ITX boards--VRMs and features would be amazing then...

So if I'm planning on just using SSD or an M.2, StoreMI really won't be beneficial and the B450 would be more than great saving some money at the same time?

 

[el01]

So if I'm planning on just using SSD or an M.2, StoreMI really won't be beneficial and the B450 would be more than great saving some money at the same time?

Yes. StoreMI is just tiered storage, and since your system will basically be "fast storage" and/or "faster storage", there isn't much of a performance gain unless you're using 2.5" HDDs (which are kinda expensive)...

Actually, I was incorrect, StoreMI works on B450 as well, so it really doesn't matter.

Finally, I would wait for the B450 Strix board, which will most likely be more expensive, but have essentially the same feature set as the X470 Strix.

Hopefully I didn't confuse you even more!
-el01

 

[Jbtamu1011]

Yes. StoreMI is just tiered storage, and since your system will basically be "fast storage" and/or "faster storage", there isn't much of a performance gain unless you're using 2.5" HDDs (which are kinda expensive)...

Actually, I was incorrect, StoreMI works on B450 as well, so it really doesn't matter.

Finally, I would wait for the B450 Strix board, which will most likely be more expensive, but have essentially the same feature set as the X470 Strix.

Hopefully I didn't confuse you even more!
-el01

Clear as mud! :-) Don't quite understand why the B450 would be more than an X470....
Any idea when mITX B450's will be available to buy? I can't find any info on release dates.
Also, why wait for B450's if it has essentially same features but more expensive than X470?

 

[jtd871]

StoreMI uses a portion of your SSD (and maybe some RAM if you choose) to cache spinning disks. You had a WD Black HDD on your parts list, so I thought you might want to use it in the new build.

 

[el01]

Clear as mud! :-) Don't quite understand why the B450 would be more than an X470....
Any idea when mITX B450's will be available to buy? I can't find any info on release dates.
Also, why wait for B450's if it has essentially same features but more expensive than X470?

It will be more expensive than other B450 boards

Definitely follow jtd871's advice if you have "spinning rust".
Clarification: I said "tiered storage". Tiered storage, for anyone referencing this in the future, especially in StoreMI, will combine drives under one letter and cache drives. A clarification.

 

[Jbtamu1011]

StoreMI uses a portion of your SSD (and maybe some RAM if you choose) to cache spinning disks. You had a WD Black HDD on your parts list, so I thought you might want to use it in the new build.

I wouldn't have room in the M1 with the parts will be using. Plus, that HDD has slowed down substantially from when I got it 4 years ago. Might turn it into an external HDD for mass storage/backup.

It will be more expensive than other B450 boards

Definitely follow jtd871's advice if you have "spinning rust".
Clarification: I said "tiered storage". Tiered storage, for anyone referencing this in the future, especially in StoreMI, will combine drives under one letter and cache drives. A clarification.

Well, I didn't make clear when I meant the B450 Strix would be cheaper than the X470.

Thanks for the clarification on tiered storage. Didn't really know what or how that worked.

Gosh, everyone has been great and helpful. Thanks!!