Another topic about clones

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Flyingpepper

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Jan 8, 2018
107
191
yes but again , that case doesn't use that file...
unless they come up with a formal complain there isn't any point on others to do that.

you can state what you think but not ask for that case to be removed
Huh? I’m responding to your claim that Louqe released their 3D model, so how would I know they wouldn’t want someone else to use that design?

Because if they were OK with that they wouldn’t bother with a commercial usage disclaimer on their model — even if someone copied the design without usage of the file.

I’m not saying Nouvolo used the file. I only mentioned the file because you brought it up.
 

K888D

SFF Guru
Lazer3D
Feb 23, 2016
1,389
2,800
www.lazer3d.com
You can't legally stop someone copying the look of your product unless you file for design registration in every country that you want to sell the product into, so thats not going to happen.

But that said it is immoral to lazily copy a design and especially to post it back into the same community. You need to bring something unique to the table, whether that be through aesthetics, functionality, quality or value. If you don't then the community will respond and I think it is important for them to have a voice and back up the true innovation.

I don't believe it should be the responsibility of the forum staff/moderators to police this, the community will voice its opinion and so long as it is done constructively, in the end people will vote with their wallets. If someone brings a "clone" to the table and people buy it, then they must have offered something of value that people want.

That being said, I am completely against plagiarism and it truly does make me feel sick when I see products being copied when with a bit of effort something unique could be created instead, that's the bit that I can't get my head around.
 

Bangle

Cable-Tie Ninja
Apr 12, 2018
147
112
I appreciate this space to have the discussion, so thank you. :D

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Louqe is clearly insanely busy at the moment. Not to mention it wouldn’t exactly look great for them to publicly respond to this.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with clearly pointing that that the Nouvolo Steck has obvious design influence—to put it incredibly lightly—from the Louqe Ghost S1. Obviously, no one should be starting flame wars, doxxing, etc. But trying to silence a basic discussion on the matter is a bad move.

If someone has the gall to essentially copy an already popular project on here, then they need to be adult enough to deal with people calling them out for what’s obvious.

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You absolutely hit the nail in the head. Your “LAN M4-SFF” mock-up is absolutely on point. That’s essentially the difference between the two cases. Nouvolo has a post about interior changes, which is not the concern here.

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The minute exterior differences are as follows:

1. Power LED has been moved from above power button to bellow.
2. No ragtag on top.
3. “Indents” on the top hat .(I’m guessing to place your fingers to remove, since there’s no rag tag.)
4. Removable feet. (Moot point since they’re removable and Louqe listed removable feet as an add-on and even has renderings of them.)

From Louqe add-on PDF here:


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@Thehack previously eloquently stated how you can use a similar internal layout, because yes, there are only so many ways to lay out internal components to minimize volume. However, that does not mean the exterior has to be a 99.9% clone to another design.

The C4 and SM550:



Clearly these two cases utilize entirely different design languages. There would be absolutely no way to mistake the two for each other, despite using similar interior layouts.

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Moreover, Nouvolo is trying to use this Cooler Master as prior art for stackable cases:



No one is trying to say that Louqe is the only company that can have an expandable PC case. Trying to use this Cooler Master as a defense is obtuse at best and intentionally misleading at worst. Surely they can acknowledge that the stackable expansion system is the least of the worries here.

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Even Nouvolo themselves is using Louqe Ghost S1 photos to try to figure out water-cooling in their own case:




Nouvolo themselves again directly compared their case to Louqe by saying:

(emphasis mine)

Another reference to Louqe:

(emphasis mine)



If Nouvolo themselves repeatedly compare their own product to Louqe's, then they acknowledge that it's incredibly derivative of the Ghost S1. There would be zero reason to slyly call out Louqe if they didn't know their product was a clone and had an overlapping customer base of those who either ordered a Ghost S1 or were interested in one.

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Here's a collection of Louqe Ghost S1 and Nouvolo Steck photos mixed up together:













Now tell me it isn't obvious.

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The lack of concern from SFF staff so far about this is honestly disheartening. Perhaps that will change with the statement they release. I don't see why anyone would bother working their ass off designing their own case only for someone else to come on the same forum and steal your entire exterior design with lazy changes.

I'm tired of reading about how "the market" should design if this is ok. That's bs. SFF can and should take a clear position that this kind of practice is unacceptable. At least make design thieves sling their product somewhere else.

Stop defending design theft and instead support the creators on this platform that actually contribute new ideas and products to the SFF community.

Frankly, I'm surprised I'm spending the time writing this as I've been waiting for my Ghost S1 since their original launch over a year and a half ago. But as a design professional myself, this really upsets me. Louqe is far from perfect—and their communication is honestly awful at times—but at least their design isn't stolen.

Exactly!! I said this some months back on the Nouvolo forum (albeit in a trolly manner). The exterior is a 99% copy. Got banned for 48hr. I also said i don't mind the interior idea being used, as you said, there are only so many ways to do an internal layout. I also posted some potential design options/ ideas - which i still think is up on the Nouvolo tread. I was giving honest advice not trolling.

Nouvolo had the opportunity to offer a different external design using the Louqe internal platform. But they chose not to by making very little cosmetic changes.

What bothers me is that on the Louqe tread we were having a wider discussion about shipping delays, when another member posted a link to the Nouvolo (catchy name) as an alternative if there were further delays on the Louqe. To which I basically replied that I looked at the Nouvolo but thought it was a 99.9% clone so i won't be getting it (nevermind that i live in the EU and with import taxes it would cost the same as the Louqe). The admins response was to delete my comment and the original comment (i think), and then verbally warn me for apparently breaking the rules.

In no way did I slag-off the 'creators' of the Nou... case personally or threaten them, I simply stated my opinion on the way it looks, and i was replying to the wider issue of shipping delays in the 1st place. Admins just over reacted. More importantly someone over reacted and reported my comment. Sorry admins if i think something is a clone, i'm gona say it.

Come on admins look at the pics above, you've got to admit its near identical. So what's wrong with your members saying so? As long as its not offensive or threatens people, simply saying something is a 99.9% clone shouldn't warrant ban warnings. Would be a shame if this forum ends up like Twitter.

In any event if the creator of the Nouvolo case is reporting people for saying its a clone, then maybe they are on to something.

Anyway...
 

Choidebu

SFF Guru
Aug 16, 2017
1,045
1,007
Discussing plagiarism here in its own thread is right. Over to that thread, it's just looking for trouble.

In all honesty, this is not the only time I see a 'clone' in said subforum. There are others. A certain creator with multiple cases 'inspired' with every popular layout in this very forum. Only cheaper and less quality finish. I won't buy them - but what right do I have to stop others from doing so? They fill their own niches, and if they don't do a good job at it people would just stop buying.

Why is it that when it comes to loque, some just felt compelled to defend and being all apologetic about them? This is fanboyism.

I'm all about empowering community but frankly I thought there's more to designing indie cases than just aesthetics - at least that's what this forum had taught me about. They can copy all they want, but there's more to cases than looks, which is execution. And community engagement.
 

Reldey

Master of Cramming
Silver Supporter
Feb 14, 2017
383
401
You can't legally stop someone copying the look of your product unless you file for design registration in every country that you want to sell the product into, so thats not going to happen.

But that said it is immoral to lazily copy a design and especially to post it back into the same community. You need to bring something unique to the table, whether that be through aesthetics, functionality, quality or value. If you don't then the community will respond and I think it is important for them to have a voice and back up the true innovation.

I don't believe it should be the responsibility of the forum staff/moderators to police this, the community will voice its opinion and so long as it is done constructively, in the end people will vote with their wallets. If someone brings a "clone" to the table and people buy it, then they must have offered something of value that people want.

That being said, I am completely against plagiarism and it truly does make me feel sick when I see products being copied when with a bit of effort something unique could be created instead, that's the bit that I can't get my head around.
Yeah I think this makes the most sense. Because it is a nuanced issue, context means everything and I don't think it will be very easy to come up with a policy about this. Voting with wallets is fair, and if the OG designer really has an issue, it is kind of on them to chase it down. And while I don't think it is healthy to barge into every case thread and claim it is copying someone else's design, I think the framing of the discussion can go a long way, such as "So what are you doing differently than X case?" and so on. I wouldn't try to encourage anyone to stop their work outright, unless it was a harmful design.
 
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Walderstorn

Average Stuffer
Apr 29, 2018
67
26
It sets an awful precedent for other creators to be worried about wasting time and money to design, get feedback, ensure product viability, et cetera — only to have someone else swoop in and profit from your own labor.
This is something i worry about when i see this type of situation. It's such an obvious copy that it hurts my eyes. I really despise those type of low tricks but what worries me the most is the precedents this creates to new designers. If i was one i would think: "well whats the point is they can just picked my design up and change 1 thing (or 3) and call it "their own design"?! To be honest i would feel pissed and i would never give money to a ********** (word in portuguese) company that would do such a thing.

That being said, I am completely against plagiarism and it truly does make me feel sick when I see products being copied when with a bit of effort something unique could be created instead, that's the bit that I can't get my head around.
100% agree with this...with that dumb time copying others design you could just get some inspiration from different sources and try to use them in the best way possible to get the best possible result.
 

loader963

Master of Cramming
Bronze Supporter
Jan 21, 2017
581
516
Oh me, this does come up from time to time. And I guess it’s a good thing we have a topic officially about it. We will see what the site staff have to say and hopefully can move on.

Before I give my opinions about the clones, I’d like to take a second and give my two cents on forum etiquette. Repeatedly calling out members of a site, whether guests or staff, should not be tolerated. It’s perfectly fine to disagree or engage in a debate, but even heated arguments can be civil. And when it’s over, let it be over. It is no help to keep posting over and over on a perceived injustice and really only accomplishes lowering the threads quality.

The site owners and curators can run the site however they want to, its theirs period. I like the idea of them monitoring their site for: bad behavior, language, trolling, malware links, and guiding the site based on their policies and direction they want to take the forum. I personally wouldn’t want them to censor threads based on what some would see as copyright infringement. There are other ways to do that. Whether thru legal cease and desist methods, or community outcry. And yes, you can cry foul as I’ve seen quite a few posts crying foul in the custom cases section. But there’s a difference between voicing an opinion versus outright hostile, vulgar, and/or repeatedly commenting (aka threadcrapping). It’s not hard to voice a negative opinion civilly in a thread.

As for clones, yes they are out there and in here. A direct copy is shameful and should be addressed. However, most people use the term clone to describe cases that are also similar but different. And to me, if I can see where some were “heavily inspired” but they also do have fundamental differences, then no, it’s not a copycat. You may have to look for them, but if they are there, then yes it is different build.

And aesthetics in sff is actually one of the hardest things to differentiate from one another. When cases have standard internal parts, there are only so many ways to put them together. In sff, we are constrained in size, which can be a huge limit to how different things can look. The only reason I can tell a Corsair case from a nzxt mid tower is the 2” plastic cover on the front of the case. Figuring the volume of just that panel, made only for looks is +4L, the size of a few full powered sff cases.

That said, I do agree the nouvolo is VERY SIMILAR.
 
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