Concept 11 liter ITX airflow simplicity

[Henrik_N]

Thank you for all the positive feedback and interest in the project. I fear my tendency to render stuff has taken the questions a bit away from my first post, so i will just repeat my first topic i would really appreciate some comments on for my own interest: Anyone know of any test of the difference between directly applied fans to a heatsink, and a heatsink with air blow at a distance?

Seeing the feedback though have ignited my interest in developing this for a more mass-production-friendly version. Thats how i like to design anyway.
I have started looking for places to play around for prototyping, but dont expect to much for now.

But looking from a wider perspective, i would like to test my ideas in the design against actual product standarts. Do anybody have a good resource for the actual written/drawn standards for computer internals? ATX, Micro ATX, ITX, SFX-PSU, PCI openings, IO-shields? I have based my sketching so far on specific products rather than standards, but i think it is time to change.

Love the design though, the curved ply exterior is absolutely stunning and the fabric front gives me high end speaker feels which I think is a mature aesthetic not appreciated enough in the PC world.

Have you looked at doing a design with slightly more CPU tower clearance?

Well in current design (the first post) the CPU tower clearance is around 130mm. Thats one of the main reasons for the internal layout. Currently my height-clearance is determined by the DC plug on the GPU.
The main limitation to coolers though i feel is the need to be conscious about airflow direction. A large cooler rotated 90 degrees wrong could remove the whole reason to make the front to back air layout.

 

[Lone]

You would need a massive heatsink to passively cool the CPU. You need air to be pushed or pulled through the heatsink fins.

The fan on the NH-L12S is under the heatsink, so it doesn't take up any room, so you can just leave the fan on the heatsink. Air from your case fans will probably go around the heatsink, but not through the heatsink fins.

If you have room and wanted too, you could use liquid cooling and a radiator mounted to your front fans and eliminate the CPU heatsink.

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

This is a concept that I had, based around a Thermalright HR-02 and a 180mm Silverstone fan.

It "might" work this way, but I'm very unsure about a passive NH-L12S.

I've tried a passive NH-C14 in the past, with 2x 120mm NOCTUA (highest air flow) front fans blowing right against the motherboard (in a 120mm wide "chassis" .... And it was not great. The CPU was an i5-4570. It was better with the 35W i7-4785T, but still not to my liking.

 

[Tazpr]

Awesome to hear you might look into costs for producing the case Henrik, I've been trying to find a case with this layout for some time and the only option was to get it custom made which is just far too expensive.

Will keep an eye on this thread, if you ever need a dummy with a 9700k and 225mm long 2060 to assist with testing prototypes you can feel free to reach out to me

 

[Breakdancingsquirrel]

This is a concept that I had, based around a Thermalright HR-02 and a 180mm Silverstone fan.


It "might" work this way, but I'm very unsure about a passive NH-L12S.

I've tried a passive NH-C14 in the past, with 2x 120mm NOCTUA (highest air flow) front fans blowing right against the motherboard (in a 120mm wide "chassis" .... And it was great. The CPU was an i5-4570. It was better with the 35W i7-4785T, but still not to my liking.

It should work i mean i can passively cool my 3770 with an nH-u12p in the right circonstances

 

[Henrik_N]

You would need a massive heatsink to passively cool the CPU. You need air to be pushed or pulled through the heatsink fins.

The fan on the NH-L12S is under the heatsink, so it doesn't take up any room, so you can just leave the fan on the heatsink. Air from your case fans will probably go around the heatsink, but not through the heatsink fins.

If you have room and wanted too, you could use liquid cooling and a radiator mounted to your front fans and eliminate the CPU heatsink.

It makes sence that a boundry layer around the close together fins will mean the air would just move around. Idealy the CPU cooler would have a channel a bit like the old Mac Pro did it. But the dependency on such a one of element goes a bit against what i try to achieve with this project. Same goes for Liquid cooling. I don't like the idea of a spinning pump creating noise and the AIOs tubes always seem to be crammed into smaller builds.

If i get to prototyping and testing, and not just building for my own enjoyment, i will definately test something like the arctic alpine M1 to see if it can take a high TDP with the case airflow concept.
https://www.arctic.ac/worldwide_en/alpine-am4-passive.html

This is a concept that I had, based around a Thermalright HR-02 and a 180mm Silverstone fan.
(IMAGE)
It "might" work this way, but I'm very unsure about a passive NH-L12S.

I've tried a passive NH-C14 in the past, with 2x 120mm NOCTUA (highest air flow) front fans blowing right against the motherboard (in a 120mm wide "chassis" .... And it was great. The CPU was an i5-4570. It was better with the 35W i7-4785T, but still not to my liking.

Nice! Thats the simplicity i miss in computer layout. But a 180mm fan? Those i have not been able to find. Well a few from ages ago. It annoys me quite a lot that it jumps from 140 to 200mm now a days... I mean, ITX is the hot thing, so where is our 160 or 170mm fan? A few weeks back my desire was to build a long slim case with 2x 160mm or 2x 180m fans on the side with all components side by side (PCI riser needed).

Awesome to hear you might look into costs for producing the case Henrik, I've been trying to find a case with this layout for some time and the only option was to get it custom made which is just far too expensive.

Will keep an eye on this thread, if you ever need a dummy with a 9700k and 225mm long 2060 to assist with testing prototypes you can feel free to reach out to me

Good to know But it will have to be down the line. As eager as i am to make some real life tests, i still live abroad working on a project for two months more. But i hope it gives me time to be well prepared instead. And find some good contacts.

 

[Lone]

It makes sence that a boundry layer around the close together fins will mean the air would just move around. Idealy the CPU cooler would have a channel a bit like the old Mac Pro did it. But the dependency on such a one of element goes a bit against what i try to achieve with this project. Same goes for Liquid cooling. I don't like the idea of a spinning pump creating noise and the AIOs tubes always seem to be crammed into smaller builds.

If i get to prototyping and testing, and not just building for my own enjoyment, i will definately test something like the arctic alpine M1 to see if it can take a high TDP with the case airflow concept.
https://www.arctic.ac/worldwide_en/alpine-am4-passive.html

Definitely, if you could 3D print some ducting to direct the air from the front fans where you want it, that might work nicely. I have no experience with this, but another possibility may be a large heatsink mounted to the front fans with heatpipes going to the CPU and GPU? Downside is you would need to add clearance at the front for the heatsink (and obviously find or produce a heatsink that would work).

The Arctic Alpine Passive is interesting. Thanks for sharing! I wasn't aware of it, and looks like it would actually work in my L5 case.

 

[HottestVapes]

I would 100% buy this style of case. Looks like the perfect sweet spot for a small case while maintaining good air cooling temps and support. If i was at all skilled myself, I'd try making one since there's nothing else available with this layout that isn't a huge ITX tower.

 

[Arboreal]

This is an excellent concept, I really like the wood and fabric and the corner IO.
Seeing an mATX version is interesting too, what would its volume be?

 

[Henrik_N]

This is an excellent concept, I really like the wood and fabric and the corner IO.
Seeing an mATX version is interesting too, what would its volume be?

13,6L and 150X280X325mm, maybe a tad more. I’m currently considering buying the contents to get some real dimensions to check. The GPU height is the biggest limitation. It puzzles me that the power connection always is on the edge like that. It would be much better if it was mounted sideways.

 

[Henrik_N]

Battling some more with GPU heights. I was quite keen on something like the MSI GeForce 2070, but it seems that the card is just too high.
Can anybody confirm from where the measurement is done when heights on cards are specified? Should i measure from the motherboard base, the PCI-e top or from the edge of the main GPU PCB? Its certainly not from the metal lowest point on the bracket.
I fear i have to make the case wider again... its already a bit wider than i like... As you can see in this snapshot, the Nvidia GTX 2080 fits nicely in height, but is so long that a fan would need to be removed, even in the mATX version of the case... One of these days i will end up going back to a raiser cable...

 

[lawney]

Beautiful initial concept. Looks like an old speaker cabinet. I would absolutely purchase a molded wood cabinet with a fabric front like this.

 

[She loved E]

Lovely concept. I personally really like the early version with 2x140 fans and bottom front IO. Keep going!

AFAIK published GPU dimensions are a bit of a free-for-all. The best way to make sure a specific card will fit is to measure the card yourself. The IO bracket is a standard length, so you can also infer the additional height against that dimension but it won't be as accurate as measuring.

 

[Henrik_N]

After a lot of evaluation through various 3d models and dimensions off the internet, i became so frustrated with the tall GPU-cards that i had to rethink my concept. I'm starting to understand why nobody have really made a consumer version of a narrow case, since it would just be too narrow. So now i have arrived here:

I see four ways to go. Which way do you guys think could be the most interesting to prototype? I sense some interest in the design, but which formfactor matches best?
As my First concept grew and grew to accomodate GPUs and proper airflow, i came so close to a micro ATX, so in the end i just did't that.
To the theoretical line-up is now as show under the following theory:
mATX tower
- For the high end user with little room for compromizes on performance. It contains proper cooling, good airflow and a full micro ATX board with all that gives. It needs to be able to run 24/7 with workload.
ITX tower
- For the design enthusiast, who likes a solid PC with capacity for some gaming and rendering works - but when evening comes, it needs to look nice on the desk rather than render huge 3d scenes...
ITX box
- To the common PC user who comes a long way with a solid base. Designed with the intent of using onboard GPUs such as AMDs Ryzen 2400G. Needs to look good on every families home office desk.
ITX box-2
- The alternate take on the "low end user". I am imagining the user is the kind of person who fears the smartphone. Who do not turn his or her furniture towards the television. This computer needs to look good, cozy, retro.

Maybe we can have a small poll here? Which version is the most interesting?

I understand scale can be a bit hard to read even if there is measurements on them, so i just made an extra render with a 24" display and a standard size keyboard:

 

[Tazpr]

Gorgeous designs, but I'm deterred by 92mm fans, why did you drop the 140mm fans?

If the issue is the front IO, then relocate the IO as I would rather have better fans and airflow than the triangular IO.
Relocating the IO to the back of the case next to the PSU is my preference as it keeps the design simplistic and clean.

I much prefer the initial ITX layout personally with the standard orientation, 130mm tower support and 2 x 140mm fans.
I know this is an SFF community, but sometimes the efforts to reduce volume for the sake of a number and reducing the overall compatibility of the case is pointless.
11-12.5 litres is not big, in fact it's about the same size as the NCase M1, and if it allows for better air coolers and better airflow then I'd say it's worth it.

Also just with the slimmer designs, I'd be concerned about the limited cooler restrictions and the nature of wood, as it will restrict the airflow into the cooler, even with front fans, and likely increase internal temperatures and noise - using tower coolers with a wind tunnel style airflow direction would be the most efficient way of cooling a case like this as the wood frame would ensure all the air travels in the same direction and isn't being pushed out the top or sides.

Also please consider adding rear exhaust in the form of dual 80mm fans, as this in combination with dual 140's on the front would create an ideal cooling solution that would perform extremely well.

 

[Sashby]

@Tazpr I'm guessing the reason for 92mm fans would be due to the right hand side of the motherboard requiring cable space clearance for motherboard components. Otherwise the length and width would need to be increased. See Post #31

 

[Tazpr]

@Tazpr I'm guessing the reason for 92mm fans would be due to the right hand side of the motherboard requiring cable space clearance for motherboard components. Otherwise the length and width would need to be increased. See Post #31

I think the length reduction only hurts the design, as per my post, the case has gone from a flexible 11 litre case to a limited and more compact chassis, something that appeals to be less.

 

[BikingViking11]

I just wanted to say that this thread has been inspiring. Less from the design perspective as I do not possess the design skills to produce renders like this, more from the perspective of a carpenter: I'd like to make the case.

I'm a huge fan of Danish and MCM designs utilizing shaped plywood forms. While I've only had limited experience in shaping plywood (Most customers don't want to pay you to do experiments) I do understand the concepts. Using forms and vacuum bagging I think it could be done...and in far more forms than just a rectangle.

 

[Henrik_N]

Gorgeous designs, but I'm deterred by 92mm fans, why did you drop the 140mm fans?

As Sashby says, the reasoning for the 2x140 to 3x92 is because of the channel it creates to be used for cable-management. 1/3 of the fan area would shoot air directly into the ram in the other format.
It annoys me from a design-simplicity point of view too. I loved the simple front. It all started to go downhill when i fell for the ITX-GPUs which all are so much higher thant the usual PCI cards. Then i became consious about all sorts of practical matters. I tried to go for 2x120 instead, and that might still be the way to go. It just leaves less for cabels, and the fan still blows a lot directly into the ram-modules.

I'm a huge fan of Danish and MCM designs utilizing shaped plywood forms. While I've only had limited experience in shaping plywood (Most customers don't want to pay you to do experiments) I do understand the concepts. Using forms and vacuum bagging I think it could be done...and in far more forms than just a rectangle.

Well if you live near Aarhus, we could look into that if i go into prototyping. I do not, however believe bending with steam is the way for small volume production. It will take too long to do manually. I am currently looking at have a milling-tool made to make v-shaped kerfing-slits to allow for bending of off the shelf plywood. This will create tighter radius and enable a wider selection of outer shells.

 

[lawney]

120mm fans seem a worthwhile compromise. And a home theater-style case would be an awesome one to have as well. Would look great and fit into the space. It would be nice if that one supported the new Asatek 92mm CLC from SFF Lab and it also eschewed the SF psus for the new HDPlex 400 watt internal psu parts. A lot of room for smart organization.