Travelling ITX workstation - dual 10 GigE, 5700 XT, Ryzen 3700X in SM560

[forvak]

I'm building a SFF workstation to travel internationally with to events and workshops. This is my first desktop build in eight years and first SFF ever. I could use some quick advice on a few things.

I need two 10 GigE ports for the radio hardware that I use which ended up as the main design challenge for selecting parts. My approach is to use a case that will fit a dual slot GPU and an additional card and a motherboard that supports PCIe Bifurcation. My most common workloads are intensely multi-threaded so more cores is better than faster cores. The appearance of the PC isn't a key issue. I want to air cool because of possibly bringing the PC in carry-on and generally just nervousness about leaks during shipping/travel. My budget is flexible.

Current Part list:

Case: Sliger SM560 (vented sides)​

Motherboard: Asrock X570 Gaming ITX/TB3​

CPU: Ryzen 3700X or 3900 [65W TDP, not overclocking]​

CPU Cooler: ID-COOLING IS-60​

Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3200​

Video Card: Sapphire RX 5700 XT Pulse​

Network Card: Mellanox ConnectX-4 Lx Dual 10 GigE SFP+​

Power Supply: Corsair SF600 W 80+ Platinum SFX​

Storage: 2x 2.5" SSDs​

Case Fans: 4x Noctua NF-A12, all exhausting so the case runs negative pressure, otherwise bottom intake and top exhaust​

M.2 Slot: PCIe Gen4 x4 NVMe drive or Aller Artix-7 FPGA board (future add on, thermal pads between card and case frame)​

​

My main concern at the moment is actually whether SATA cables can even connect to the right angle motherboard headers since the PSU will be really close. @thewave1408 warned about this but I can't find a follow up with whether the low profile cables worked. I'm looking at getting some Silverstone CP11 Ultra Thin cables, but would love a little confidence that they'll fit.

Has anyone air-cooled a 105 W TDP CPU in an SM560 case, and if so, with what cooling setup and what sort of thermals under full utilization? It'd be nice to know if a hotter (more cores) CPU was an option.

Nvidia's passive aggressive stance towards OpenCL has largely sunk them for me unfortunately. I think I have to lean towards the AMD RX 5700 XT despite higher thermals and power consumption. It does look like people have had good success substantially undervolting it though. The Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse is 254 x 135 x 46.5mm. 0.5mm narrow enough (yikes), but 2mm too tall according to the SM560 measurements. @Sligerjack, any chance you can confirm my guess that I can just shift the IEC mounting plate up 2mm as needed without needing to go for the pigtail? Also, how's the screen printing of graphics on the case coming along?

Thanks for reading and for any advice you can give!

 

[Windfall]

I'm building a SFF workstation to travel internationally with to events and workshops. This is my first desktop build in eight years and first SFF ever. I could use some quick advice on a few things.

I need two 10 GigE ports for the radio hardware that I use which ended up as the main design challenge for selecting parts. My approach is to use a case that will fit a dual slot GPU and an additional card and a motherboard that supports PCIe Bifurcation. My most common workloads are intensely multi-threaded so more cores is better than faster cores. The appearance of the PC isn't a key issue. I want to air cool because of possibly bringing the PC in carry-on and generally just nervousness about leaks during shipping/travel. My budget is flexible.

Current Part list:

Case: Sliger SM560 (vented sides)​

Motherboard: Asrock X570 Gaming ITX/TB3​

CPU: Ryzen 3700X or 3900 [65W TDP, not overclocking]​

CPU Cooler: ID-COOLING IS-60​

Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3200 or G.Skill Trident Z RGB DDR4-3600 (Both 2 x 16 GB, Cas 16)​

Video Card: Sapphire RX 5700 XT Pulse or EVGA RTX 2060 SUPER SC​

Network Card: Mellanox ConnectX-4 Lx Dual 10 GigE SFP+​

Power Supply: Corsair SF600 W 80+ Platinum SFX​

Storage: 2x 2.5" SSDs​

Case Fans: 4x Noctua NF-A12, all exhausting so the case runs negative pressure, otherwise bottom intake and top exhaust​

M.2 Slot: PCIe Gen4 x4 NVMe drive or Aller Artix-7 FPGA board (future add on, thermal pads between card and case frame)​

​

My main concern at the moment is actually whether SATA cables can even connect to the right angle motherboard headers since the PSU will be really close. @thewave1408 warned about this but I can't find a follow up with whether the low profile cables worked. I'm looking at getting some Silverstone CP11 Ultra Thin cables, but would love a little confidence that they'll fit.

Has anyone air-cooled a 105 W TDP CPU in an SM560 case, and if so, with what cooling setup and what sort of thermals under full utilization? It'd be nice to know if a hotter (more cores) CPU was an option.

Nvidia's passive aggressive stance towards OpenCL has largely sunk them for me unfortunately. I think I have to lean towards the AMD RX 5700 XT despite higher thermals and power consumption. It does look like people have had good success substantially undervolting it though. The Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse is 254 x 135 x 46.5mm. 0.5mm narrow enough (yikes), but 2mm too tall according to the SM560 measurements. @Sligerjack, any chance you can confirm my guess that I can just shift the IEC mounting plate up 2mm as needed without needing to go for the pigtail? Also, how's the screen printing of graphics on the case coming along?

Thanks for reading and for any advice you can give!

@KSliger would be a better person to ping, he actually works at Sliger.

As far as I know, sligerjack has no affiliation.

 

[forvak]

You're right. I did mean to ping KSliger but I think Sligerjack is also at Sliger, he's active on Reddit in an official role.

I've just removed the 2060 Super from the possible build list, the 5700 XT just makes more sense in the end for my usecases, fingers crossed on undervolting to get the power and thermals down. I've also taken the G.Skill RAM off, the Corsair LPX will do me just fine and it's nice and low profile.

I'm hoping that the ID-COOLING IS-60 going to fit with the Asrock X570 Gaming. I haven't found anyone who has used both yet and could see the large rear-io shield being an issue. We'll see!

 

[Sligerjack]

I'm building a SFF workstation to travel internationally with to events and workshops. This is my first desktop build in eight years and first SFF ever. I could use some quick advice on a few things.

I need two 10 GigE ports for the radio hardware that I use which ended up as the main design challenge for selecting parts. My approach is to use a case that will fit a dual slot GPU and an additional card and a motherboard that supports PCIe Bifurcation. My most common workloads are intensely multi-threaded so more cores is better than faster cores. The appearance of the PC isn't a key issue. I want to air cool because of possibly bringing the PC in carry-on and generally just nervousness about leaks during shipping/travel. My budget is flexible.

Current Part list:

Case: Sliger SM560 (vented sides)​

Motherboard: Asrock X570 Gaming ITX/TB3​

CPU: Ryzen 3700X or 3900 [65W TDP, not overclocking]​

CPU Cooler: ID-COOLING IS-60​

Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3200​

Video Card: Sapphire RX 5700 XT Pulse​

Network Card: Mellanox ConnectX-4 Lx Dual 10 GigE SFP+​

Power Supply: Corsair SF600 W 80+ Platinum SFX​

Storage: 2x 2.5" SSDs​

Case Fans: 4x Noctua NF-A12, all exhausting so the case runs negative pressure, otherwise bottom intake and top exhaust​

M.2 Slot: PCIe Gen4 x4 NVMe drive or Aller Artix-7 FPGA board (future add on, thermal pads between card and case frame)​

​

My main concern at the moment is actually whether SATA cables can even connect to the right angle motherboard headers since the PSU will be really close. @thewave1408 warned about this but I can't find a follow up with whether the low profile cables worked. I'm looking at getting some Silverstone CP11 Ultra Thin cables, but would love a little confidence that they'll fit.

Has anyone air-cooled a 105 W TDP CPU in an SM560 case, and if so, with what cooling setup and what sort of thermals under full utilization? It'd be nice to know if a hotter (more cores) CPU was an option.

Nvidia's passive aggressive stance towards OpenCL has largely sunk them for me unfortunately. I think I have to lean towards the AMD RX 5700 XT despite higher thermals and power consumption. It does look like people have had good success substantially undervolting it though. The Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse is 254 x 135 x 46.5mm. 0.5mm narrow enough (yikes), but 2mm too tall according to the SM560 measurements. @Sligerjack, any chance you can confirm my guess that I can just shift the IEC mounting plate up 2mm as needed without needing to go for the pigtail? Also, how's the screen printing of graphics on the case coming along?

Thanks for reading and for any advice you can give!

You could probably get away with the 3700x, but the 3900 would be trouble. Make sure you get the version of the IS-60 with clips holding the fan on. The one with screws will bulge the side panel!

For the GPU, it will *fit* with the standard PSU mount, but it'll butt up on the GPU. Per official recommendation, the pigtail PSU kit is your best option.

Screen printing on the case largely depends on exactly what you want and where on the case you want it!

Just a note, fans aren't supported on the top of the SM560.

You're right. I did mean to ping KSliger but I think Sligerjack is also at Sliger, he's active on Reddit in an official role.

I've just removed the 2060 Super from the possible build list, the 5700 XT just makes more sense in the end for my usecases, fingers crossed on undervolting to get the power and thermals down. I've also taken the G.Skill RAM off, the Corsair LPX will do me just fine and it's nice and low profile.

I'm hoping that the ID-COOLING IS-60 going to fit with the Asrock X570 Gaming. I haven't found anyone who has used both yet and could see the large rear-io shield being an issue. We'll see!

I do work at Sliger! I'm more active on reddit, @KSliger is more active on here!

You can always email me! Jack@sliger.com

 

[ermac318]

AFAIK the right-angle SATA ports on the AsRock board will not fit in most sandwich cases because of PSU placement.

I think the AsRock board is a poor choice for your build. Unless you need the TB3 port (which it looks like you don't, or at least didn't say you needed), the Gigabyte or Asus boards will be better. I know the Gigabyte board explicitly supports PCIe Bifurcation. The AsRock has only one M.2 slot, by using the Gigabyte board you could use both your FPGA board and the Mellanox card and still have an M.2 SSD.

If you want to go 100% Air cooling, your best bet is a case that has more clearance for CPU coolers. Sandwich cases will always compromise here. Consider the Asetek 645LT for your CPU cooler (now available in a bundle from Sliger with their cases!), otherwise I'd look at a different case. As a workstation build, you're going to need proper CPU cooling and if you aren't willing to go CLC/AIO, then maybe the NCase M1 or the upcoming SV540 from Sliger would be a better fit. Otherwise, maybe the NCase M1 would work for you if you can get a board with the right fitment and capabilities. I'm not sure how you'd swing PCIe Bifurcation in the NCase M1 but you might be able to find an mATX board that fits like the ROG Maximus XI Gene does (although that's Intel Z390).

I think you will be much happier with a workstation with a better CPU cooler than the IS60. Whether that's going to water or taller air cooler is up to you.

 

[forvak]

Thanks both. @ermac318 I did specifically want the TB3 port which is why I chose the motherboard. I didn't mention the need in the first post because the stuff I'd connect with it would all be external to the case. Agreed that in basically every other way the other motherboards are better suited for the build.

The NCase M1 is definitely my alternative here. I'd rather not have the extra size, but I have been looking into it. I'm pretty confident that I could get a riser board from C_Payne to make the bifurcation work. I'd add a support to hold up the cards like the SM560 has, such a good design! The M1 is also not available until December/January.

@Sligerjack Thanks for the info! I had gotten mixed up on the case support for fans at the top, great catch. I am specifically interested in the 3900 not X which has an advertised TDP of 65 Watts. Who know if it will ever be released and released to home builders. *shrug* It'd be really nice to have those extra cores even if they run slower. I did get the IS-60 with clips, mostly by luck. ? I'll get both PSU plug options and see which works and I'm happy living with.

SM360 shipments to the UK from are on hold at the moment so I have a little bit of time to try and find out about the SATA connectors. Can you tell me if there's any room at all between the Motherboard and PSU? It looks like the PSU is offset from the front of the case by the bracket, maybe I can move it over the 5mm or so needed to clear the slim SATA cables.

 

[Windfall]

I do work at Sliger! I'm more active on reddit, @KSliger is more active on here!

You can always email me! Jack@sliger.com

Thanks for the clarification. Maybe you should ask the staff for a vendor badge to make sure nobody makes the mistake I did!

 

[Terse]

Nvidia's passive aggressive stance towards OpenCL has largely sunk them for me unfortunately. I think I have to lean towards the AMD RX 5700 XT despite higher thermals and power consumption.

You might want to check your specific OpenCL applications are supported by the 5700 series and their drivers prior to buying one.

Reference https://www.anandtech.com/show/14618/the-amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt-rx-5700-review/13

"
Compute

Unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier in my testing observations, the state of AMD's OpenCL driver stack at launch is quite poor. Most of our compute benchmarks either failed to have their OpenCL kernels compile, triggered a Windows Timeout Detection and Recovery (TDR), or would just crash. As a result, only three of our regular benchmarks were executable here, with Folding@Home, parts of CompuBench, and Blender all getting whammied.

And "executable" is the choice word here, because even though benchmarks like LuxMark would run, the scores the RX 5700 cards generated were nary better than the Radeon RX 580. This a part that they can easily beat on raw FLOPs, let alone efficiency. So even when it runs, the state of AMD's OpenCL drivers is at a point where these drivers are likely not indicative of anything about Navi or the RDNA architecture; only that AMD has a lot of work left to go with their compiler.

That said, it also serves to highlight the current state of OpenCL overall. In short, OpenCL doesn't have any good champions right now. Creator Apple is now well entrenched in its own proprietary Metal ecosystem, NVIDIA favors CUDA for obvious reasons, and even AMD's GPU compute efforts are more focused on the Linux-exclusive ROCm platform, since this is what drives their Radeon Instinct sales. As a result, the overall state of GPU computing on the Windows desktop is in a precarious place, and at this rate I wouldn't be entirely surprised if future development is centered around compute shaders instead.

"

Its been 4 months since release and my applications are still not supported by AMD's implementation of OpenCL in their drivers. You might have to hold your nose when selecting your GPU if nVidia's cards work for your applications. I think I am going to wait for 1H20 for Ampere and see what that brings.

 

[forvak]

Hi @Terse

I'm in the mostly fortunate position where the main OpenCL load that I'm using (software defined radio) is one that I'm a developer of. I'm aware that AMD's current OpenCL driver situation isn't good on the 5700 XT but progress does seem to be coming along. I'm almost exclusively a Linux user so the ROCm driver is a huge selling point fo rme. Since this build is likely to be one I don't make many changes to for a few years I'm ok with the support maturing over time.

Any update on 5700 Xt support? · Issue #887 · ROCm/ROCm

Just curious if you have any plans on supporting the 5700 Xt card in the near future. As of now I haven't seen it in the supported GPUs list. Would be nice to also have it included!

github.com

I hope the applications you use get support soon!

 

[Terse]

I hope the applications you use get support soon!

Yeah looks like you are in a lot better position. Thanks for the well wishes.

The only other thing on your build that might be worth another look is maybe moving to ECC UDIMMs for ram. It appears that for a slight performance penalty of dropping down to 2666 from your listed 3200 speeds and an increase to CL19 latency you could not worry about memory errors. Most ECC UDIMM modules are available in 8 and 16 GB and comparing 2 x 16 GB of your Vengeance to 2 x 16 GB of M391A2K43BB1-CTD I only see you paying about $20 more. I have been looking at 32 GB ECC UDIMM modules but the cost and availability are not there yet.

Workstation ECC support on mainstream sockets for AMD is a big selling point especially as that makes it available to the SFF community which is way more than just gamers.

 

[forvak]

Hmm. ECC memory isn't something I've looked at before. This isn't a mission critical system and I was hoping to push the 3200 Hz rated RAM to 3600 Hz to match 2x 1800 Hz Infinity Fabric bus speeds. I won't be upset if that doesn't work out, but it seems like an accessible speed boost.

I've heard from Sliger that there is some space between the motherboard and power supply, *maybe* enough for the SATA cables. I'm going to take a chance on it and will report back once everything is here. Sliger has *not* guaranteed that there's space, so if I end up sanding the cables down or modding the power supply that's all on me.

With the Eco-mode announced I had another tough look at getting a 3900X and running it slow/undervolting to stay in the limits of cooling, but I think I'm giving in to impatience and pragmatism and going with the 3700X. It'll be a huge upgrade over what I'm running now.

Orders going in! I'll update in a few weeks when it's built.

 

[ermac318]

Hmm. ECC memory isn't something I've looked at before. This isn't a mission critical system and I was hoping to push the 3200 Hz rated RAM to 3600 Hz to match 2x 1800 Hz Infinity Fabric bus speeds. I won't be upset if that doesn't work out, but it seems like an accessible speed boost.

I've heard from Sliger that there is some space between the motherboard and power supply, *maybe* enough for the SATA cables. I'm going to take a chance on it and will report back once everything is here. Sliger has *not* guaranteed that there's space, so if I end up sanding the cables down or modding the power supply that's all on me.

With the Eco-mode announced I had another tough look at getting a 3900X and running it slow/undervolting to stay in the limits of cooling, but I think I'm giving in to impatience and pragmatism and going with the 3700X. It'll be a huge upgrade over what I'm running now.

Orders going in! I'll update in a few weeks when it's built.

Best of luck, please let us know how it went. What will you be using to cool the CPU? Still recommend the Asetek 645LT if you want the best cooling, otherwise go IS60 or BlackRidge.
If you want a better chance at having the SATA cables work, look into some right-angle connector SATA cables. Take a look at the board pictures and figure out which direction they need to go, and grab a cable or two so you can run the cables down and behind the motherboard like you're planning. Straight-angle SATA cables will almost certainly not work. I think these are the right orientation: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16812119910
Forget the ones I linked, @rfarmer linked much better ones in the next post, as long as you don't need more than 2 SATA drives.

 

[rfarmer]

Also take a look at these Silverstone Ultra Thin cables, some of the lowest profile SATA connectors you will find.

 

[forvak]

Hi @ermac318 I'm using the IS60. I didn't want watercooling since this PC will be on planes and trains a lot. The Blackridge doesn't fit in the SM560 I think?

@rfarmer I've already got two of those cables coming. No other cable could possibly fit as far as I know. I may have to sand off some of the connector plastic as it is! I'm going with a Samsung 860 EVO 1TB OS drive and a Samsung CudaFire 2TB hybrid for the data drive. One day I might add a PCIe gen4 M.2 NVMe drive, but not yet.

 

[ermac318]

Hi @ermac318 I'm using the IS60. I didn't want watercooling since this PC will be on planes and trains a lot. The Blackridge doesn't fit in the SM560 I think?

@rfarmer I've already got two of those cables coming. No other cable could possibly fit as far as I know. I may have to sand off some of the connector plastic as it is! I'm going with a Samsung 860 EVO 1TB OS drive and a Samsung CudaFire 2TB hybrid for the data drive. One day I might add a PCIe gen4 M.2 NVMe drive, but not yet.

BlackRidge fits just fine, it actually has better clearance than the IS60, but it can compromise RAM/mobo heatsink options.

 

[forvak]

That's great to know. The IS-60 was only available on eBay from Korea when I was looking and the shipment tracking doesn't seem to be working so I might need a quick swap if it gets close to the 25th and hasn't arrived.

 

[forvak]

Most of the parts have arrived! The SM560 will probably be the last item to arrive because the national meltdown that is Brexit delayed getting it ordered. (No blame to the folks at Sliger or Density.sk!)

Unfortunately the motherboard arrived today and thankfully I was super curious to measure the SATA ports with the SilverStone cables plugged in. The RAM slots are looking pretty unhealthy. I've requested a return/replacement from the seller. I did measure the sata connectors and they protrude 8.1mm from the side of the motherboard. I'm getting closer to betting that I'll have to make cutouts in the PSU to fit them.

The front panel also gets extra art points.

 

[forvak]

Ooo! The case has shipped! This motherboard issue is going to be the big delay then. Boo.

 

[stepnyVLK]

Why would you buy assrock anyway? They are the shi...est of them shi...
They use the worst components for vrm and are are constaly overheating. Especialy in a itx i wouldnt use that.

 

[forvak]

Because there isn't anyone else who makes an AMD ITX motherboard with Thunderbolt.

I'm planning on undervolting/clocking most components and have been conservative about thermal demands.