NCASE M2 development

[turboleak]

Hi @Necere

The best case I have ever owned ( and the last one since I bought it ) is certainly the M1, number 0037 from the first batch.

There have been talks since that time about a somewhat bigger case with more space for bigger water cooling setups.

Could you make a small resume of the current status of that project? Is it something you are looking into?

 

[Necere]

#37 huh? Even I didn't get a number that low

There's no "M2" project per se, but I'm usually working on something. I just tend to jump between different things as I get new ideas, or revisit old ones. Some of those end up in my concept thread.

Most recently, I've been back to working on a 20-ish liter mATX/ATX case, previous iterations of which you can also find in the above thread (e.g. this). I find that this kind of layout actually makes more sense in a lot of ways vs. a larger evolution of the M1 that's pushing 17-18L. But what do you think? Would you be interested in a straightforward ~20L mATX case that supports triple slot cards, CPU coolers up to say, 145-150mm, with good front-to-back airflow and a window option?

 

[turboleak]

So, from an hardware point of view, I will never use more than one PCIe slot as I am not into multi GPU configurations. The only reason for me to go to a mATX board versus mini-ITX would be four memory slots instead of two. But this is something I can comprimise on ( lower speed 16GB modules instead of higher speed 8GB modules for a total of 32GB ). And because I will never go multi GPU, a SFX form factor power supply is more than enough.
I am also averse to air, or better, I am averse to not be able to carefully control its flow. I remember back then, before the M1 was released to ask you for straight panels for the M1 ( without any holes on them ). I hate air flowing trough the thing without me being able to control it. I solved partialy on the M1, by using a DIY circular duct that feeds the blower of the GPU ( so it pulls air from a single spot and that air exits from the rear ), I made also custom ducts for entrance and exit air to the PSU and the only unresolved problem is the CPU H80 radiator and fans. They suck air from inside the case and as the case is full of holes... well...

Anyway, back to the subject, my next build will be:
- Asus Crosshair VIII impact ( mini-DTX ) with a Ryzen 3-something ( no problem for the M1 )
- 240 watercooler Enermax Liqtech TR4 II 240 ( 39mm thick radiator plus push pull 25mm fans ) ( won't fit M1 in push pull )
- 2080ti blower type ( fits M1 ) or the MSI RTX 2080Ti sea Hawk X ( has a 120mm radiator plus blower, won't fit the M1 with a 240 radiator for the CPU )
- Two M.2 drives on the motherboard
- SFX PSU

So as you can see I can make this work on the M1 by forgetting the push pull on the Liqtech and using just a blower type for the GPU, or I could agree to use a slightly bigger case than I need and be able to fit all the cooling stuff. I may even go custom loop on a bigger case, as the Asus Crosshair VIII impact comes from factory with water cooling support.

To answer your question:
- I would be interested in such a case, albeit not for the use you intended it to. For me, it would be a question of staying on a small case and humble on the cooling or going to a bigger than needed case and non-humble on the cooling. I would choose the later.
- As for the flow, I will plug all the holes ?

 

[Necere]

Yeah, I consider a well-defined air path to be pretty important, and part of what's pushing me toward this layout for the 20L design. Intake at the front, exhaust at the back makes for a nice clean path with only two sides ventilated vs. five sides on the M1. The mATX/ATX support is almost incidental - once you make room for a triple slot GPU and clearance for air intake, you're basically at four slots for mATX. Putting the PSU in front could shave off some height, but at a significant cost to airflow (-1 intake fan) and significantly worse cable management. So ultimately for a non-riser-based layout, the traditional layout still seems the most optimal.

 

[turboleak]

The thing with cable management these days is that, there are much less cables to manage! The messiest cables are the ones for drives and there is little reason to have them in 2019!

Anyway, I dream with a case that would pull air from a single duct to all the radiators and have the hardware completely air tight. Zero flow inside the case.

 

[Phuncz]

The thing with cable management these days is that, there are much less cables to manage! The messiest cables are the ones for drives and there is little reason to have them in 2019!

Anyway, I dream with a case that would pull air from a single duct to all the radiators and have the hardware completely air tight. Zero flow inside the case.

A case like that requires hardware that is designed for that goal. Some components expect some form of airflow or atleast convection to get rid of heat, with an air-tight case you will end up in a scenario where your internal case temperature will rise, heating up those components expecting indirect cooling even more and continue this cycle. Expect products like motherboards, GPUs, PSUs and storage to use components that need to be rated for higher temperatures or be cooled with the core heat sources, which will mean a lot more cost and breaks consumer product support.

 

[turboleak]

@Phuncz @Necere

Indeed. some airflow is needed.

 

[Maniac]

All I want is a 6cm taller M1 with fan-bracket mounting at the top . Ideal case.

A tiny bit different NCASE M1 build

Check out Manijak's completed build on PCPartPicker! Core i7-8700K 3.7 GHz 6-Core, GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11 GB STRIX GAMING, ...

pcpartpicker.com

 

[jacobm]

I'd love to have an M1 that's mATX compatible. I guess basically a cerberus, but with the M1 design. Top fans would be nice also, as well as making it a smidge wider for a 120mm on the back, but I guess that'd make it a much larger case.

 

[Necere]

I'd love to have an M1 that's mATX compatible. I guess basically a cerberus, but with the M1 design. Top fans would be nice also, as well as making it a smidge wider for a 120mm on the back, but I guess that'd make it a much larger case.

See this for my current thinking on a larger mATX case.

 

[jacobm]

See this for my current thinking on a larger mATX case.

If that made it into production with a side panel like the vented M1 panels and a way for a 120/140mm AIO cooler mounted to a video card to work for $300 or less I'd order one immediately. Maybe one would fit on the top front fan mount, or down by the 3.5" drives? That's what the new Mac Pro should've looked like.

But seriously, that's gorgeous and I'd buy it over a Cerberus in a heartbeat.

 

[Necere]

If that made it into production with a side panel like the vented M1 panels and a way for a 120/140mm AIO cooler mounted to a video card to work for $300 or less I'd order one immediately. Maybe one would fit on the top front fan mount, or down by the 3.5" drives? That's what the new Mac Pro should've looked like.

But seriously, that's gorgeous and I'd buy it over a Cerberus in a heartbeat.

I prefer to avoid the M1-style side bracket/vents for that design, but the front could easily take a 120 or 240 AIO (the latter depending on GPU length and drives installed). Also a 120 AIO could potentially fit on the rear, as well.

Lookswise it's pretty far off any Apple product. Maybe layout-wise, but being less than half the volume of the Mac Pro, it gives up most of the expansion slots the latter has, and that many actual "pros" would probably want. It's more geared towards regular users who just need a video card + maybe one or two other cards, a couple of HDDs, a window option, and decent cooling.

 

[jacobm]

I prefer to avoid the M1-style side bracket/vents for that design, but the front could easily take a 120 or 240 AIO (the latter depending on GPU length and drives installed). Also a 120 AIO could potentially fit on the rear, as well.

Lookswise it's pretty far off any Apple product. Maybe layout-wise, but being less than half the volume of the Mac Pro, it gives up most of the expansion slots the latter has, and that many actual "pros" would probably want. It's more geared towards regular users who just need a video card + maybe one or two other cards, a couple of HDDs, a window option, and decent cooling.

After looking at the case and reading the thread more I agree that a front panel AIO would work. I'd love to see solid side panels without a window in that case, with TG as an option for those who want it. I'm trying to figure out how best to build a SFF workstation that'll support my 1080Ti and a 10Gbe NIC without running super hot. So far I'm thinking an m.2->PCIe x4 cable and the third slot in the M1 might be my choice, but I'm also waiting to see if anyone announces some X570 mATX boards.

 

[Boil]

...X570 mATX boards.

ASRock has one...

 

[rcradiator]

ASRock has one...

Eh, VRM isn't spectacular and that is an odd arrangement of pcie slots (ideally would be 2 x16 slots spaced two slots apart for x8/x8 configuration with multi gpu workstation/SLI for gaming). Looks like they sacrificed optimal pcie slot spacing in order to cram in as many M.2 drives as they could (I see slots for an M.2 2242 drive, a 22110 drive, and probably another 22110 drive under the M.2/chipset heatsink). This board honestly looks a lot like a board intended for B550 with an X570 chipset on it. Plus, if what MSI's CEO said about X570 is true, this X570 board will probably start around $220. But I guess it is a victory for matx at least, although it looks like matx is on its way out the door compared to atx and itx.

 

[Boil]

Eh, VRM isn't spectacular and that is an odd arrangement of pcie slots (ideally would be 2 x16 slots spaced two slots apart for x8/x8 configuration with multi gpu workstation/SLI for gaming). Looks like they sacrificed optimal pcie slot spacing in order to cram in as many M.2 drives as they could (I see slots for an M.2 2242 drive, a 22110 drive, and probably another 22110 drive under the M.2/chipset heatsink). This board honestly looks a lot like a board intended for B550 with an X570 chipset on it. Plus, if what MSI's CEO said about X570 is true, this X570 board will probably start around $220. But I guess it is a victory for matx at least, although it looks like matx is on its way out the door compared to atx and itx.

The 2242 M.2 is most likely for a WiFi / BT adapter; and it look like anything over one slot wide in the bottom PCIe slot is going to block a bunch of stuff...?

Rumblings have microATX on the way out, and maybe a (slow) rise in miniDTX motherboards...?