mITX gaming build feedback

[Benk3i]

Hi, apologies for the long post. Feedback is greatly appreciated though!

I've been spending a couple of days to put together a new small form factor build and would love some input as it's been a while since I built my last case.

Main purpose: Something relatively portable as I move it around the house about twice a week. It should last me through Cyberpunk 2077 @1440p and some VR gaming for the next couple of years. My plan is to eventually swap out the GPU for one of the next gen Nvidia cards later this year or early next year.

Component	Name
CPU - ~€350	AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3,6GHz Socket AM4 Box
Motherboard ~€175	Asus ROG Strix B450-I Gaming
GPU ~€580	Asus GeForce RTX 2070 Super Dual EVO HDMI 3P 8GB
RAM ~€95	Kingston HyperX Fury Black DDR4 3200MHz 16GB
SSD ~€110	Samsung 970 EVO Series MZ-V7E500BW 500GB
Case ~€125	Lian Li TU150
Case Fan ~€45 (for both)	2x Noctua NF-S12A PMW 120mm
Power Supply ~€120	Corsair SF600 600W
CPU Cooler ~€105	Noctua NH-U12A

Reasoning

• CPU: I've been debating 9700k and Ryzen for a while. I dont have a strong opinion but Ryzen is cheaper and multi-tasking seems better. The performance in gaming seems marginal once you put it in 1440p. Also it draws less power which should be good for a smaller form factor and heat management.
• Motherboard: Surprisingly hard, but went with the ASUS as it has support for the 3200mhz RAM and two M2 slots. I was considering both the ASROCK and the Gigabyte B450 boards. I only plan to do minor OC, as I only have basic knowledge about it.
• GPU: Pretty simple, seems like great value, good resell potential when I eventually swap up to the 3000-series.
• RAM: Wanted to go with 3200mhz. My understanding is that CAS Latency won't really matter too much (could be wrong), so I went with affordable but good ram. Preferred 1x16GB in case I even want to upgrade.
• SSD: Was first thinking a 1TB M2 drive, but they are rather expensive so went with the 500GB, which should suffice as a system-disk with some games. From what I can see the Motherboard does not support PCIe 4.0 M2 (could be wrong), so I am going with the 3.0. Also seems the best price-to-performance for my purposes.
• Case: Want something portable, so the handle is nice. Seems to have good airflow. A bit on the bigger side for what I want. Was considering something extreme like the Velcase Velka 3, but it seems sold out and hard to get in Europe.
• Case fans: Planning to put 2 fans at the bottom of the case. Would like to get a dust filter though, but I'm having a hard time finding one. Maybe I am using the wrong search words.
• Power Supply: The case requires an SFX or SFX-L sized PSU, and the build is decently hungry, so I am thinking a 600W Maybe I could get away with a 550w, but the price difference does not justify the risk.
• CPU Cooler: I saw a youtube review with this cooler, and it seems good although a bit pricy. I was considering watercooling but I don't think it will be worth it for my purposes.

Thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Is this a reasonable build?

 

[tjay.dev]

Hi, Benk3i!

I was also thinking about a similar setup. I just have a few questions/suggestions:
1. CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X - I would also pick this one, I think it's the most performant Ryzen with TDP 65W at the moment.
2. MOBO: Have you considered higher chipset versions like X470 or X570? Any particular reason for choosing B450? I'm afraid that B450 will not be enough for RTX 3000 series :/
3. SSD: here again,if you'd like to have SSD M.2 PCIe 4.0 then X570 would be a perfect fit.
4. Case: plenty of possible choices here but it also implies what kind of cooler you can use.

My general impression is that it would be reasonable to buy some really good MOBO, especially if you're planning to buy RTX 3000 series when it's released.
Cheers!

 

[Benk3i]

Hi, Benk3i!

I was also thinking about a similar setup. I just have a few questions/suggestions:
1. CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X - I would also pick this one, I think it's the most performant Ryzen with TDP 65W at the moment.
2. MOBO: Have you considered higher chipset versions like X470 or X570? Any particular reason for choosing B450? I'm afraid that B450 will not be enough for RTX 3000 series :/
3. SSD: here again,if you'd like to have SSD M.2 PCIe 4.0 then X570 would be a perfect fit.
4. Case: plenty of possible choices here but it also implies what kind of cooler you can use.

My general impression is that it would be reasonable to buy some really good MOBO, especially if you're planning to buy RTX 3000 series when it's released.
Cheers!

Thanks for the feedback!

My main reasoning for the MOBO is just that I don't think I understand the value-add of a more expensive MOBO. I am not sure how it would impact the GPU. I have read you get some extra control through the BIOS and stuff and OC becomes a bit more viable, but that's about all I know tbh. So when researching the value add of a x570 vs B450 was negligible. Probably incorrect though.

Cases is something I have researched quite a bit. Might spend some more time on that. I just felt that once you go with the really small once they cost like €250-€300 and thats a bit above what I'm willing to pay for small form factor at this time.

 

[6FeaT]

With regard to RAM, dual channel is better than single channel. I know the upgradability of having just one stick is appealing, but the performance differences are generally quite noticeable. If a 2x16GB kit is out of your budget, I would seriously consider sticking with 2x8GB.

Also, CAS latency does affect performance with Ryzen CPUs. Lots and lots of testing has been done, so I recommend looking around at trusted review sites/channels and finding some data to help you decide. Happy to provide recommendations of where to look.

For a case, have you considered the Steck? I know you don't want to spend too much, but it's only about 30 euros more than the one you have in your post. I know it's significantly smaller, but you do mention the Velka 3 and the fact that the TU150 is bigger than you'd like.

Last thing is that I'm curious if you might be better off with a Ryzen 5 3600 instead of the 3700x. Very similar gaming performance, and the 3600 would save you plenty of money. If you have productivity workloads or another reason to go with the 3700x, no worries, but I wanted to put it out there as an option. With the extra savings, you could maybe get a 2x16GB RAM kit, a case more suited to your needs/desires, other upgrades, or just some savings.

Hope that helps!

 

[tinyitx]

-deleted-

 

[Benk3i]

With regard to RAM, dual channel is better than single channel. I know the upgradability of having just one stick is appealing, but the performance differences are generally quite noticeable. If a 2x16GB kit is out of your budget, I would seriously consider sticking with 2x8GB.

Also, CAS latency does affect performance with Ryzen CPUs. Lots and lots of testing has been done, so I recommend looking around at trusted review sites/channels and finding some data to help you decide. Happy to provide recommendations of where to look.

For a case, have you considered the Steck? I know you don't want to spend too much, but it's only about 30 euros more than the one you have in your post. I know it's significantly smaller, but you do mention the Velka 3 and the fact that the TU150 is bigger than you'd like.

Last thing is that I'm curious if you might be better off with a Ryzen 5 3600 instead of the 3700x. Very similar gaming performance, and the 3600 would save you plenty of money. If you have productivity workloads or another reason to go with the 3700x, no worries, but I wanted to put it out there as an option. With the extra savings, you could maybe get a 2x16GB RAM kit, a case more suited to your needs/desires, other upgrades, or just some savings.

Hope that helps!

Thanks for the input!

I did some additional research on the RAM and decided to go with G.Skill 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 3600MHz CL16 Trident Z Neo instead. I had no idea about the big difference between dual channels so this should be a significant upgrade! Thanks for the tip!

The Steck case looks great! The 2-3 weeks delivery time worries me a bit as I would like to put something together sooner than that. I will spend a couple of hours today to do some research on alternatives. The US is wonderful for quick deliveries of this kinda stuff. Europe... not so much I feel.

Regarding the CPU you may be right. I have, however, previously made the mistake on going cheap on the CPU which really hurt on the VR-setup (not so much the run-of-the-mill gaming). So I'll probably stick with this one. Maybe it will also help with the 50+ chrome tabs. ?

 

[Valantar]

One potentially major issue with buying the Asus B450 motherboard for its two m.2 slots is that the second m.2 shares bandwidth with the main PCIe x16 slot - i.e. once populated it will reduce the main slot's lane count to x8, with the latter x8 being bifurcated off to allow for the m.2 to work (yes, four lanes are left entirely unused). This is due to the lack of PCIe lanes available on the B450 platform (the chipset only provides PCIe 2.0 lanes, with all 3.0 being the 16+4 from the CPU), and thus can't be bypassed. For modern GPUs PCIe 3.0 x8 isn't much of a bottleneck (slightly so for the 2080Ti, but nothing major), but who knows with future GPUs? I wouldn't make that gamble when there are good and relatively affordable X570 boards like the Gigabyte with two m.2 slots and full PCIe 4.0 x16 on the main slot. That is the major thing that I think most people are waiting for B550 for - a non-X series AMD chipset with at least PCIe 3.0 and sufficient lanes for m.2 drives.

Also, regarding overclocking: for Ryzen 3000-series you're better off leaving it at stock performance than doing "minor OC" - these chips have complex dynamic frequency/voltage curves that take into account everything from temperature to leakage current to chip longevity, and trying old-school Intel-style fixed-frequency OC on them generally either loses you performance (possibly outside of very well threaded tasks like renders) or significantly hurts chip longevity. I've seen too many stories of chips run at >1.3V at fixed clocks (4.2, 4.3 etc.) that degrade within a short period of time so that they even struggle to maintain stock clocks afterwards. YMMV, but manual tuning generally can't beat the built-in management system in these chips. Tweaking the parameters of the automatic management (while providing plenty of cooling, keeping temps low under load, otherwise the changes will not matter) is the best way of "overclocking" Ryzen 3000 for daily use. Undervolting (offset, not fixed voltage) is also a great idea, as lower voltage = less power draw = less heat = more headroom for the automatic boost system.

 

[Benk3i]

One potentially major issue with buying the Asus B450 motherboard for its two m.2 slots is that the second m.2 shares bandwidth with the main PCIe x16 slot - i.e. once populated it will reduce the main slot's lane count to x8, with the latter x8 being bifurcated off to allow for the m.2 to work (yes, four lanes are left entirely unused). This is due to the lack of PCIe lanes available on the B450 platform (the chipset only provides PCIe 2.0 lanes, with all 3.0 being the 16+4 from the CPU), and thus can't be bypassed. For modern GPUs PCIe 3.0 x8 isn't much of a bottleneck (slightly so for the 2080Ti, but nothing major), but who knows with future GPUs? I wouldn't make that gamble when there are good and relatively affordable X570 boards like the Gigabyte with two m.2 slots and full PCIe 4.0 x16 on the main slot. That is the major thing that I think most people are waiting for B550 for - a non-X series AMD chipset with at least PCIe 3.0 and sufficient lanes for m.2 drives.

Also, regarding overclocking: for Ryzen 3000-series you're better off leaving it at stock performance than doing "minor OC" - these chips have complex dynamic frequency/voltage curves that take into account everything from temperature to leakage current to chip longevity, and trying old-school Intel-style fixed-frequency OC on them generally either loses you performance (possibly outside of very well threaded tasks like renders) or significantly hurts chip longevity. I've seen too many stories of chips run at >1.3V at fixed clocks (4.2, 4.3 etc.) that degrade within a short period of time so that they even struggle to maintain stock clocks afterwards. YMMV, but manual tuning generally can't beat the built-in management system in these chips. Tweaking the parameters of the automatic management (while providing plenty of cooling, keeping temps low under load, otherwise the changes will not matter) is the best way of "overclocking" Ryzen 3000 for daily use. Undervolting (offset, not fixed voltage) is also a great idea, as lower voltage = less power draw = less heat = more headroom for the automatic boost system.

Thanks for the really good explanation. Funny that I watched/read several reviews but never caught that bit of information. Given the feedback so far I have decided to swap to a ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming ITX/TB3. Not the top of the line as far as x570 goes, but not the bottom tier either.

Might be worthwhile to not mess too much with the OC ont he Ryzen then. I don't really have a strong use case for OC, more than that it is interesting and a skill worth learning. The consequences of getting it wrong though are pretty severe. I will hold off on that. Thanks!

 

[Valantar]

Thanks for the really good explanation. Funny that I watched/read several reviews but never caught that bit of information. Given the feedback so far I have decided to swap to a ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming ITX/TB3. Not the top of the line as far as x570 goes, but not the bottom tier either.

Might be worthwhile to not mess too much with the OC ont he Ryzen then. I don't really have a strong use case for OC, more than that it is interesting and a skill worth learning. The consequences of getting it wrong though are pretty severe. I will hold off on that. Thanks!

I like that you have picked the only X570 ITX board with just a single m.2 Still a great board though, and TB3 can be very handy. Of course you'll need to remember that it uses the Intel CPU cooler mount in a non-compliant way (it's on an AMD board after all) so there might be some compatibility niggles, and cooler height will change by a few mm due to the taller AMD IHS height. Should still work with most coolers, but it's worth taking note of.

 

[Benk3i]

I like that you have picked the only X570 ITX board with just a single m.2 Still a great board though, and TB3 can be very handy. Of course you'll need to remember that it uses the Intel CPU cooler mount in a non-compliant way (it's on an AMD board after all) so there might be some compatibility niggles, and cooler height will change by a few mm due to the taller AMD IHS height. Should still work with most coolers, but it's worth taking note of.

Crap I think you may be right. The CPU cooler is not actually supported by that board according to official specs. Might need to swap one of those parts out then.

In terms of x570 MOBOs, I have been looking at:

• Gigabyte X570 I AORUS PRO WIFI - €260
  • Does not list anything about cooler support
• ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 - €250.
  • Does list cooler support, but does not include the Noctua NH-U12A

These are the only two x570 Mini-ITX MOBOS that I can find, at least in my region. The case supports Mini-DTX as well, but for that one I only find one and it is €330+. Are there alternatives that I have missed in that price range?

edit: Might need to go back to the drawing table and see what the real-world impact would be of going with something like a x470 (i.e. Asus ROG Strix X470-I Gaming).

 

[rfarmer]

Crap I think you may be right. The CPU cooler is not actually supported by that board according to official specs. Might need to swap one of those parts out then.

In terms of x570 MOBOs, I have been looking at:

• Gigabyte X570 I AORUS PRO WIFI - €260
  • Does not list anything about cooler support
• ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 - €250.
  • Does list cooler support, but does not include the Noctua NH-U12A

These are the only two x570 Mini-ITX MOBOS that I can find, at least in my region. The case supports Mini-DTX as well, but for that one I only find one and it is €330+. Are there alternatives that I have missed in that price range?

edit: Might need to go back to the drawing table and see what the real-world impact would be of going with something like a x470 (i.e. Asus ROG Strix X470-I Gaming).

The only other x570 itx board currently available is the Asus x570-I, you could always wait for the B550 which are supposed to release Q2 2020. If you are planning on getting the Steck one thing to remember with the Asrock board is that it has right angle SATA connectors and the PSU on sandwich style cases blocks them so if you had any plans for using 2.5 drives don't get that board.

 

[6FeaT]

Thanks for the input!

I did some additional research on the RAM and decided to go with G.Skill 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 3600MHz CL16 Trident Z Neo instead. I had no idea about the big difference between dual channels so this should be a significant upgrade! Thanks for the tip!

The Steck case looks great! The 2-3 weeks delivery time worries me a bit as I would like to put something together sooner than that. I will spend a couple of hours today to do some research on alternatives. The US is wonderful for quick deliveries of this kinda stuff. Europe... not so much I feel.

Regarding the CPU you may be right. I have, however, previously made the mistake on going cheap on the CPU which really hurt on the VR-setup (not so much the run-of-the-mill gaming). So I'll probably stick with this one. Maybe it will also help with the 50+ chrome tabs. ?

Glad to hear you've found a dual-channel kit that works! I totally hear you on the shipping times. And I forgot about the VR portion of your load, so yeah I think the 3700x is a great choice. Good luck with the build! Post pics once you've got it all together