GPU Graphics card upgrade for Small Form Factor computer HP800 with only 240W PSU

[Bangforbuck]

I have HP 800 G1 Elitedesk SFF computer with Power supply unit of only 240W.

HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Small Form Factor (SFF) PC Specifications | HP® Customer Support

Specifications page for HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Small Form Factor (SFF) PC.

support.hp.com

I am thinking of upgrading GPU to have better graphics for PC games (not very demanding or newest)
and for Android and Iphone emulators for games, now I am ocassionally playing older PC games.

I was looking at some GPUs that only use 35W or 75W, would that work with my PC with only 75w power?
Would there be any, even smalest, chance to damage my computer (motherboard or whatever), as
I also have 4 slots of DDR3 RAM filled and 2 SSD disks plus obviously I might add a GPU CARD (35 or 75W)?

For example I was looking at this:
https://www.zotac.com/us/product/graphics_card/zotac-geforce-gtx-1050-ti-low-profile#spec
and

ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 1050 Low Profile | ZOTAC

<p>Everyone deserves great gaming. That’s why we created the fast, powerful ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 1050 Mini. Now you can turn your PC into a true gaming rig, powered by NVIDIA Pascal™--the most advanced GPU architecture ever created. It’s loaded with innovative NVIDIA Game Ready technologies that...

www.zotac.com

(Says 75W and 300W PSU is recommended, but I only have 240W PSU)

ZOTAC GeForce® GT 1030 2GB GDDR5 HDMI/DVI Low Profile | ZOTAC

<p>Step Up To Brilliant PC Graphics</p> <p>The new ZOTAC GeForce® GT 1030, powered by the award-winning NVIDIA Pascal™ architecture, accelerates your entire PC experience. Its powerful graphics engine and state-of-the-art technologies provide a performance upgrade to drive today’s most demanding...

www.zotac.com

This one uses only 30W of power, but still 300W PSU is recommended (I have 60W less)

Is Zotac good? Could you suggest some other GPUs too?

So if I also add GPU like this, it might be too much for so weak PSU?
Is there any protection for this or could be somehow set up?

 

[sheepdog43]

You can ignore what they say about the PSU requirements.
If a 400watt PSU has 16amps on the 12v rail and a 320watt psu also has 16 amps on the 12v rail (like yours does), then they both are only able to supply 192watts to the 12volt rail/system. The total power number is rather useless and gets people into trouble (this ignores the lies psu manufacturers tell).

Assuming you have an I7-4770, a spinner and dvd-r, given it's age you don't really have a lot of overhead in my opinion. Removing those drives or if you have a lower wattage cpu buys you enough overhead to use the 1030. Keep in mind though that while the PSU may be built to handle the load, it may not be built to do it long term, a hdd and dvd spin up and down, and rarely does the cpu, dvd and hdd all top out at the same time for long periods. A GPU by comparison can pull full power for hours on end while taxing the cpu, so while the wattage is the same it's a different load scenario and can cause the psu to overheat or become unstable.

I think you would be okay with the 1030 (since you probably draw less than the 4770/dvd/spinner combo) but I wouldn't even try the 1050, even with removing drive(s) and a lower watt cpu, it's going to be pushing that psu pretty hard under load if it can even manage at all. Some will say this is probably overkill, but I've seen what not enough power does to things, it's not pretty.


P.S. ssd's use 5v power, not 12v. Removing them does nothing in this instance.

 

[ShamedGod]

Never owned one but MAYBE the Radeon 550?

UserBenchmark: AMD RX 550 vs Nvidia GT 1030

AMD Radeon RX 550 2GB Review

The Radeon RX 550 replaces AMD’s lowest-end add-in cards. It's about time, too, since the previous models were based on 2013-era GPUs.

www.tomshardware.com

Edit: IDK man, you seriusly might just want to save for a Ryzen APU system. The price of this system is going to drop quite a bit in July/August as the New CPUs come out and ram prices continue to slide...

System Builder

pcpartpicker.com

 

[Bangforbuck]

You can ignore what they say about the PSU requirements.
If a 400watt PSU has 16amps on the 12v rail and a 320watt psu also has 16 amps on the 12v rail (like yours does), then they both are only able to supply 192watts to the 12volt rail/system. The total power number is rather useless and gets people into trouble (this ignores the lies psu manufacturers tell).

Assuming you have an I7-4770, a spinner and dvd-r, given it's age you don't really have a lot of overhead in my opinion. Removing those drives or if you have a lower wattage cpu buys you enough overhead to use the 1030. Keep in mind though that while the PSU may be built to handle the load, it may not be built to do it long term, a hdd and dvd spin up and down, and rarely does the cpu, dvd and hdd all top out at the same time for long periods. A GPU by comparison can pull full power for hours on end while taxing the cpu, so while the wattage is the same it's a different load scenario and can cause the psu to overheat or become unstable.

I think you would be okay with the 1030 (since you probably draw less than the 4770/dvd/spinner combo) but I wouldn't even try the 1050, even with removing drive(s) and a lower watt cpu, it's going to be pushing that psu pretty hard under load if it can even manage at all. Some will say this is probably overkill, but I've seen what not enough power does to things, it's not pretty.

I have i5 4590 3.3GHZ, I do not have HDD, only SSD Samusng evo 860.

I have no doubt that GT1030 would work, but AMD RADEON RX550 which has better benchmark than GT1030 (or some other GPU) with 50W would be an overkill for my 240W PSU, right?

1050(ti) that needs 75W (or some other GPU 75W) would work even long term if I had changed PSU to HP PSU 320W
(I do not know the correct HP PSU model, but I read this is max powered PSU that can be upgraded on HP8''G1 SFF)?



What do you mean by 'this ignores the lies psu manufacturers tell' specifically?

 

[Bangforbuck]

Never owned one but MAYBE the Radeon 550?

UserBenchmark: AMD RX 550 vs Nvidia GT 1030

Seems very tempting as PASSMARK is more than 1000 points bigger than GT1030, which would make it a more worthwhile
upgrade, as it is then almost 5 times 'faster' than my integrated GPU and price not much bigger.

Radeon RX 550 vs GeForce GT 1030 vs Intel HD 4600 [videocardbenchmark.net] by PassMark Software

The question is if this would be safe long term to put on 240W PSU...

 

[sheepdog43]

I have i5 4590 3.3GHZ, I do not have HDD, only SSD Samusng evo 860.
I have no doubt that GT1030 would work, but AMD RADEON RX550 which has better benchmark than GT1030 (or some other GPU) with 50W would be an overkill for my 240W PSU, right?
What do you mean by 'this ignores the lies psu manufacturers tell' specifically?

Your 240watt has the same 12v power capacity as the 320watt model (16amp/192watts), this is why I say the numbers are misleading.

Power supplies lose some capacity as they age (capacitors age, fans wear, things get coated in dust), so realistically at this point yours is probably closer to let's say 175 watts. You also never want to run them at peak for long periods, never more than about 80%. So for the sake of round numbers let's call it 150 watts, even if it's probably closer to 140 for continuous load. Again, not everything runs at 100% all the time so you can have a higher total system and be okay, but you need to keep it within reason.

With a better idea of your system lets run the numbers again:
Rough estimates:
I5-4590 - 89 watts (TDP, actually power draw is higher)
motherboard 10 watts
ram 5 watts
fans 8 watts
Total 12v power usage = 112watts approximately, but keep in mind this is probably low.


150watt psu - 112 watts of power draw= 38 watts headroom
Could a 50 watt card work? Probably, but that little PSU is going to have to work for it. You could have stability issues (due to low power and ripple) but at some point I wouldn't be surprised if the psu or system die as a result.



Regarding PSU manufacturer lies.
Power supplies are tested in a controlled environment, one may use a 50c temp another may use 30c. If a PSU is rated at 300 watts on the 12v line but only at 30C what is it actually going to handle in a warm computer. I once measured my Silverstone 450 at 54c before I replaced it. If it was rated at 30c it's a max number you will never see in the real world. Cheap Chinese power supplies are not only rated this way, but also by what I call Chinese Math, guesstimate the number based on the components and then round up.

Not all do this, however they can play other games, such as the case with the 320 vs 240 watt power supplies, both carry 16 amps on the 12volt line. Not much help there is it? I've seen power supplies where the 3volt line, which is hardly used, was half of the total power supply wattage. 12v line rating is what matters and I've seen many people buy a bigger one expecting more power only to find it actually had a lower 12v rating than the one they replaced. This was easy to do when companies decided it was a good idea to split the 12v rails, now instead of one rail with 54 amps you had three rails with 18 each, that doesn't work when your GPU needed 20.

Go look at some power supply torture tests by the likes of Johnny Guru and others, they push them to the limit and see if they stand up to the manufacturer claims and you would be surprised at just how many, even large names, can't actually do what the box says (sometimes nowhere near). This forum talks about power a lot because of the limited options but in performance forums power supplies are fretted over just as much if not more because many have seen the ill effects.

Have you ever seen what happens when a power supply fails or can't produce enough power? A good one will simply not provide enough power or ripple, usually causing a crash, systems can handle this on occasion, but constant low power will destroy parts just as easily as a power spike. I've also seen them send the wrong voltage when they fail, such as the one I had that would send 12v spikes down the 5 volt rail every 45 seconds or so.

Am I overly cautious? Maybe, but is destroying your entire system worth the risk?

 

[ShamedGod]

I believe this article was written for you:

Discrete GPU on a Cheap OEM PC: Does it Make Sense?

After testing the GTX 1650 we pledged to track down a popular OEM PC that didn't have a 6-pin PCIe power connector. This lead us to the...

www.techspot.com

From personnel experience SAVE YOUR MONEY. Do not try to upgrade this machine. If you happen to find some hand me down parts OR can take a couple different machines and Frankenstein them together then that's one thing. To take an OEM and try to convert it into a custom build is often a waste of time and money. That's why "Sleeper Computers" are a separate enthusiast sub-category of builds.