The Goliath MINI- Fully customizable, affordable, and elegant. We need your feedback

GoliathDesign

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
Goliath Design
Nov 3, 2015
6
1
Hey guys. I’m Max, the cofounder of Goliath Design.

For the past 12 months we’ve been brainstorming, designing, and engineering a small form factor mITX pc case perfect for any build, and it’s almost here. The Goliath MINI.

Here is what we have so far http://imgur.com/a/ylCSg

We are finishing up the final touches right now. But we want the community’s feedback. Let us know what you think of the MINI. If you can, fill out this survey to let us know what you want in a small form factor case. http://******/1KWhJMp

Our website is http://GetGoliath.com and we’re on https://www.facebook.com/GoliathDesignPC/ and https://twitter.com/GoliathDes. We are planning on starting a Kickstarter within the next few weeks. So subscribe on our website to get notified when that happens. (There is also a large twist that hasn’t been revealed yet, so stay tuned!)

Please let me know what you think. I’ll be happy to answer any questions!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jØrd

EdZ

Virtual Realist
Gold Supporter
May 11, 2015
1,578
2,107
The survey link appears to be missing.

The site does not contain any specifications or other details about the case, but from the images posted it appears to be a very large case (for ITX) with a lot of empty internal space. The GPU could be rotated to the 'traditional' orientation to narrow the case, or the PSU could be moved into the 'void' behind the HDD cage & below the slim ODD mount (slightly lengthening the case) to allow for use of mATX motherboards.
The internal frame appears to have a perforated top, but the outer 'shell' is solid. Is there a void space between them for air circulation from the edges, or is the intent for the top to be 'removable' for more airflow?
 

|||

King of Cable Management
Sep 26, 2015
774
758
A few critiques: Looks like it is a bit large for an mITX case...roughly the same as the mATX Silverstone GD05. The GPU height will be limited to reference (it almost looks like the fans will interfere with the PCIe power cables). Also, with all of the fans exhausting, it will have negative case pressure, so those with dust issues won't have an easy filtering solution.
 

GoliathDesign

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
Goliath Design
Nov 3, 2015
6
1
The survey link appears to be missing.

The site does not contain any specifications or other details about the case, but from the images posted it appears to be a very large case (for ITX) with a lot of empty internal space. The GPU could be rotated to the 'traditional' orientation to narrow the case, or the PSU could be moved into the 'void' behind the HDD cage & below the slim ODD mount (slightly lengthening the case) to allow for use of mATX motherboards.
The internal frame appears to have a perforated top, but the outer 'shell' is solid. Is there a void space between them for air circulation from the edges, or is the intent for the top to be 'removable' for more airflow?
Ah sorry. I added the survey again.

Right now these are by no means our final designs. I'm working on squeezing down the case as small as possible, and am actually talking with some engineers about optimizing the design.

For the current design, the external frame does have some void space, so airflow shouldn't be too much of a worry.

A few critiques: Looks like it is a bit large for an mITX case...roughly the same as the mATX Silverstone GD05. The GPU height will be limited to reference (it almost looks like the fans will interfere with the PCIe power cables). Also, with all of the fans exhausting, it will have negative case pressure, so those with dust issues won't have an easy filtering solution.

Yeah, we've been getting that its too large, so that's our primary concern. The final product will have magnetic dust filters too.
 

QinX

Master of Cramming
kees
Mar 2, 2015
541
372
I'm all for asking for feedback, but we need a lot more information.
You are looking to start your kickstarter in 13 days, but are still engineering on the final design, do you have a prototype to show on the kickstarter that shows you commitment? What price bracket are you going to be entering? sub 100 or higher?

Judging from the images I estimate the size to be: 12*30*44=14,5L that is a segment of M-ITX cases that is getting crowded, what is different with your design that others don't have?

Are there any other forums where this case is discussed?

All in all, I think the case is somewhat novel but with its size it sits in a space already occupied by other, I need more info on what you think makes this case unique to make a fairer judgement

PS: Checked you twitter and facebook, but not much info there, I'd imagine most of it gets out on the kickstarter launch.
Also maybe a bit of a weird question, but how did you get 4.5k followers on twitter with only 2 messages dating from only 24th october?
 
Last edited:

GoliathDesign

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
Goliath Design
Nov 3, 2015
6
1
I'm all for asking for feedback, but we need a lot more information.
You are looking to start your kickstarter in 13 days, but are still engineering on the final design, do you have a prototype to show on the kickstarter that shows you commitment? What price bracket are you going to be entering? sub 100 or higher?

Judging from the images I estimate the size to be: 12*30*44=14,5L that is a segment of M-ITX cases that is getting crowded, what is different with your design that others don't have?

Are there any other forums where this case is discussed?

All in all, I think the case is somewhat novel but with its size it sits in a space already occupied by other, I need more info on what you think makes this case unique to make a fairer judgement

PS: Checked you twitter and facebook, but not much info there, I'd imagine most of it gets out on the kickstarter launch.
Also maybe a bit of a weird question, but how did you get 4.5k followers on twitter with only 2 messages dating from only 24th october?

1. The Kickstarter in 13 days was the plan, but with all of the mixed feelings about the case, it's size, etc. I am seriously considering pushing it back further to perfect the design.

2. The case will start at $85, but can go higher (explained below)

3. BY FAR, the most important thing about us is that the case will be COMPLETLY customizable. Think of it like Nike's shoe design site.

We will offer a base case (the MINI initially) and will allow for the customer to fully design the case to their specifications. This will include colors, materials, front LED design, handles, VESA mounts, LED color, windows, window color, etc... No other case manufacturer does this. This is really something that will set us above the rest.


4. I've brought this up on several other forums today-- the same post really to just get some general feedback.

5. Yeah, we've been just focusing on designing the case rather than social media. At the time of the kickstarter, more will be shared. (The massive number of Twitter followers were from a friend :p )
 

QinX

Master of Cramming
kees
Mar 2, 2015
541
372
Thanks for the info, although I have to say, the customizing part is not entirely unique, have a look at caselabs and mountainmods, similar concepts, of course having even more options is even better, but you run the risks of low quantities with too many options and higher base costs because of it.

It looks like a nice concept, and the base price seems okay, but the pricing of your options is going to make or break the concept I think.

One and a half question still remain for me, do you have a prototype? If not how do you intend to convey your commitment, seeing there are plenty of "great product ideas with many promises but no actual prototype" kickstarter campaigns, people have become more wary with backing projects that haven't done any visible investments into their own products.

Would you mind posting links to the other forums, mostly because I can't find them on google yet, and this forums isn't large enough to provide a good base for potential buyer feedback, mostly case designers are on this forums.
 

GoliathDesign

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
Goliath Design
Nov 3, 2015
6
1
Thanks for the info, although I have to say, the customizing part is not entirely unique, have a look at caselabs and mountainmods, similar concepts, of course having even more options is even better, but you run the risks of low quantities with too many options and higher base costs because of it.

It looks like a nice concept, and the base price seems okay, but the pricing of your options is going to make or break the concept I think.

One and a half question still remain for me, do you have a prototype? If not how do you intend to convey your commitment, seeing there are plenty of "great product ideas with many promises but no actual prototype" kickstarter campaigns, people have become more wary with backing projects that haven't done any visible investments into their own products.

Would you mind posting links to the other forums, mostly because I can't find them on google yet, and this forums isn't large enough to provide a good base for potential buyer feedback, mostly case designers are on this forums.

I think with the two companies you mentioned don't do the customization well at all. First off their prices are insane! Second, their interfaces online really need work.

I'm going to hold off on building a prototype until I finalize the designs. With so much about the case being changed, it would be very pricey to keep making new prototypes.

As for where I am posting, these are my most popular other threads:
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...ini-itx-case-we-need-your-suggestions.217252/
https://forum.teksyndicate.com/t/de...ini-itx-case-we-need-your-suggestions/90692/7
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...e-need-your-suggestions?p=7873865#post7873865
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterra...ning_a_new_small_form_factor_miniitx_case_we/
 

jtd871

SFF Guru
Jun 22, 2015
1,166
847
Max,

My first impression upon seeing the render images was "It looks reminiscent of a Steiger Dynamics product" judging solely on the apparent form factor and styling.

Please don't take the feedback you're getting too badly. This kind of project is hard to get right - even for designers with success under their belts (I trust that you've read the original NCase M1 and LRPC threads on [H]ardforum in their entirety to see what I'm talking about?).

J
 

QinX

Master of Cramming
kees
Mar 2, 2015
541
372
looking at the reddit and techpowerup threads, most of the remarks are about the size and your answer is the same all the time, it fits an 13in gpu and atx PSU. Mostly I'm finding you countering the feedback you are getting with the reason why you made that choice.

You also say here that you think Caselabs is expensive, if you are going to be offering all that customization I wonder how you are even going to come close to your $85ish base price, how barebones is the cases going to be? Would I need to pay $20 to get 3.5" or 2.5" drive support?

Edit:
I read you are going for 1xUSB3.0 and 1xUSB2.0, why? if a motherboard has a USB 3.0 header it is always for 2xUSB3.0 and if you are trying to support USB2.0 because some motherboard have only a USB2.0 front header it would be cheaper to include an adapter for, the current offering with 1 of each makes no sense and can't be cheaper then the 2x USB3.0+adapter.

Edit2:
Sorry if I come across as very negative, but you want feedback so you're getting it ;)
 
Last edited:

Aibohphobia

aka James
Gold Supporter
Feb 22, 2015
4,956
4,720
At a bit over 20L it's on the large side though perhaps not excessively so if it can handle an ODD, full size GPU, decent CPU heatsink, ATX PSU, 3.5" drives, etc.



Since you're going to be redesigning the case and getting input from engineers I won't bother nitpicking the manufacturability of the design in the renders.

I will say though, if you're going to redesign the case it would NOT be a good idea to continue with your planned Kickstarter campaign. Without a closer to final design, you can't get accurate quotes from the manufacturer, and so you can't run a campaign asking $85 for a case when you don't really know what it'll cost to make yet.

Not to mention, Kickstarter doesn't allow 3D renders. You have to have a working prototype for them to approve the campaign. I realize you may not necessarily be in a position financially to fund a prototype out of your own pocket though. Instead, you should work on your redesign with feedback from potential buyers, and run a smaller crowdfunding campaign on Indiegogo (or other platform that'll allow 3D renders only) to fund a prototype, like NCASE did with the M1.
 

GoliathDesign

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
Goliath Design
Nov 3, 2015
6
1
At a bit over 20L it's on the large side though perhaps not excessively so if it can handle an ODD, full size GPU, decent CPU heatsink, ATX PSU, 3.5" drives, etc.



Since you're going to be redesigning the case and getting input from engineers I won't bother nitpicking the manufacturability of the design in the renders.

I will say though, if you're going to redesign the case it would NOT be a good idea to continue with your planned Kickstarter campaign. Without a closer to final design, you can't get accurate quotes from the manufacturer, and so you can't run a campaign asking $85 for a case when you don't really know what it'll cost to make yet.

Not to mention, Kickstarter doesn't allow 3D renders. You have to have a working prototype for them to approve the campaign. I realize you may not necessarily be in a position financially to fund a prototype out of your own pocket though. Instead, you should work on your redesign with feedback from potential buyers, and run a smaller crowdfunding campaign on Indiegogo (or other platform that'll allow 3D renders only) to fund a prototype, like NCASE did with the M1.

Wow, amazing reply. You're definitely putting me on the the right path.

Here is a quick redo of the case that makes it much smaller.


Right now its much smaller, but it can be even more if I make it support SFX psu's and ~11ish in. gpus.

I will definitely postpone the actual kickstarter, and will have a prototype kickstarter instead!

Thoughts on the new design/size?
 

jtd871

SFF Guru
Jun 22, 2015
1,166
847
Remember to include/leave room for cabling and plugs/terminals and water hoses (if you're still planning to support watercooling). It's really amazing how much space is taken up with wires or necessary to leave so that there's room to actually build in.

Seriously, I can't count the number of times I've read a designer with an actual prototype (between the NCase guys, QinX, SaperPL, iFreilicht, the Kimera guys and Dondan) say in their scratch build log "Well, I'm going to need to bump the case X mm in this direction to permit cables/cooling/GPU to fit better." This is an aspect of design that is not often fully appreciated until you are working with an actual prototype (or four) on your bench.
 

EdZ

Virtual Realist
Gold Supporter
May 11, 2015
1,578
2,107
That's definitely a more interesting design. Sort of like an Ncase M1 with extra height to fit an ATX PSU (and a moved ODD slot), or a PC-Q17 without the pointless slant and a more efficient PSU orientation.
 

iFreilicht

FlexATX Authority
Feb 28, 2015
3,241
2,355
freilite.com
Hey another case designer! Hi, hope you'll be having a great time here!

Adding to everything that was said above, you should really, really talk to manufacturers about your plans. As it was mentioned, Mountainmods and Caselabs (add Parvum to that list) offer extremely high customisability, just like you want to. Your critique is that their prices are insane, and you want to do that part better, as well as offer something smaller.

Here's the thing: there must be a reason why all their cases are so expensive. Customisability comes at a cost, and before even thinking about a crowdfunded campaign, make sure you know what that cost roughly is.

You're also talking about their websites and how they need an overhaul. Can you actually do it better? Because if you want to offer that, you need some good webdesigners to develop that website for you.

BTW, @jtd871: I had a prototype? Can you show me where? Because if I had I lost it :D
 

Aibohphobia

aka James
Gold Supporter
Feb 22, 2015
4,956
4,720
I highly recommend reading this post by @Necere (designer of the NCASE M1), it goes over many of the clearance issues with the different components when considering case layouts : http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041903689&postcount=47

It's specific to microATX but much of it applies to any case design.

I'm having a bit of trouble interpreting your render. Assuming the chassis is just a placeholder and we're mainly looking at the component layout, I can tell you that the with the GPU plugged into the board without a riser, you'll need about 150mm case height minimum (assuming the motherboard is horizontal) to have enough room for the power connectors. Even then that mostly limits the cards to reference height.

You'll need to allow at least 20mm for the angled power cord, and that's using the really short one like the M1 uses. SilverStone's OEM division can make one with a custom length but it's a 1000 piece MOQ (Minimum Order Quantity). Then you'll need about 25-30mm clearance for modular connectors, and that's a tight fit if the cables are sleeved.

Like @jtd871 said, you'll want to look very closely at connector and chassis clearance. What may look like a very space efficient layout on paper can easily grow 1-3 liters once you make enough room to actually make the case realistic to work inside of.
 

esplin2966

Cable-Tie Ninja
Mar 2, 2015
169
113
I would echo everyone else's sentiment about making sure your design is manufacturable, and this is from personal experience. When I first presented my design to manufacturers, I was literally laughed at (in person). The sales person felt so bad for me that he bought me lunch. Don't be like me. Think about:

Where are the screws gonna go?

A metal sheet cannot be bent into a box, so I have to bend 2 separate sheets and join them. How do I join them?

How much extra dimension are paint or other coating gonna add?

And so on.
 

Aibohphobia

aka James
Gold Supporter
Feb 22, 2015
4,956
4,720
When I first presented my design to manufacturers, I was literally laughed at (in person).

Wow, that's rude. I work as a computer tech so I get some extremely ignorant questions sometimes but I would never laugh at them to their face for it.

Wasn't nearly as bad, but when I first talked to a manufacturer with my fairly crude SketchUp model I definitely felt like an amateur way out of his league.