Power Supply Silverstone Discussion (Split from NJ450-SXL Thread)

Duality92

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MOD EDIT: The following discussion has been pulled from the Silverstone NJ450-SXL discussion thread as it has gone off topic of the review.

From my experience (and my still unfinished RL06 review), Silverstone is amongst the top tier manufacturer (not necessarily OEM) of cases and power supplies.

Legends like the TJ07, TJ07, classics like the Milo lineup then newer models which by default configuration, take top spots in various segments, RL06 in stock configuration air flow, KL07 top of the line sound reduction to name two that come to mind.

SilverStone isn't all out in social media marketing from what I'm seeing, but I don't see any other big case manufacturer produce as much newer models as them.

Corsair has brought 1-2 cases in 2018
I don't think Fractal Design has brought anything new in 2018
NZXT has brought the HX00i series, which technically is just one case, in different formats.
and I could keep going.

They're also the only manufacturer, as far as I know (and cases is the area I know most), that compete in almost every dimensions of the market, STX, mITX slim, mITX tower, mATX (right side up AND inverted), ATX in all rotations almost, EATX, HTPC, name it, they've got it.

SilverStone also listens to the constantly changing market needs and adapts their new products in a way that the cases still say "Silverstone" when you look at them, but appeal to the masses.

I want SilverStone to continue in this direction in terms of case design and the broad range they offer, but if they'd put more energy into social media, they'd become EASILY as popular as any of the brand names I've named above.

BTW, I just saw your LD01 and mATX form factor being my preferred one, I LOVE it.

Thanks Tony (I'm assuming it's you behind the account), thank you and thank SilverStone for the cases you bring to the market and pushing for SFX and SFF.
 
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n13L5

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From my experience (and my still unfinished RL06 review), Silverstone is amongst the top tier manufacturer (not necessarily OEM) of cases and power supplies.

Legends like the TJ07, TJ07, classics like the Milo lineup then newer models which by default configuration, take top spots in various segments, RL06 in stock configuration air flow, KL07 top of the line sound reduction to name two that come to mind.

SilverStone isn't all out in social media marketing from what I'm seeing, but I don't see any other big case manufacturer produce as much newer models as them.

Corsair has brought 1-2 cases in 2018
I don't think Fractal Design has brought anything new in 2018
NZXT has brought the HX00i series, which technically is just one case, in different formats.
and I could keep going.

They're also the only manufacturer, as far as I know (and cases is the area I know most), that compete in almost every dimensions of the market, STX, mITX slim, mITX tower, mATX (right side up AND inverted), ATX in all rotations almost, EATX, HTPC, name it, they've got it.

SilverStone also listens to the constantly changing market needs and adapts their new products in a way that the cases still say "Silverstone" when you look at them, but appeal to the masses.

I want SilverStone to continue in this direction in terms of case design and the broad range they offer, but if they'd put more energy into social media, they'd become EASILY as popular as any of the brand names I've named above.

BTW, I just saw your LD01 and mATX form factor being my preferred one, I LOVE it.

Thanks Tony (I'm assuming it's you behind the account), thank you and thank SilverStone for the cases you bring to the market and pushing for SFX and SFF.

Yes, they do a lot of new designs - and a lot of very cleverly laid out cases - fitting lots of power into small spaces - with either decent or sometimes great cooling.

But that said, its all cheap steel - aluminum only used as accents. And as we know, steel is poor for heat transfer compared to aluminum.
Worse, their steel is often so thin, you're likely to bend bits and pieces during install.

The Grommets they provided with the SUGO xxx05 (I forget the alphabet soup they used for names), to decouple the hard drives split / ripped after a single install / uninstall operation.

Their designers are great, but they obviously don't get to play with nice materials.
Its all cheap plastic and cheap steel for people with no money.

I get that - you do wanna have product for people with no money. But you'd also want to have product for people who can spend a little more - LIAN LI certainly seems to sustain itself just fine, building EVERYTHING to high end specs with nicely fabricated and finished aluminum!


I've always wished, that LIAN LI would hire some of Silverstone's engineers
and let them do their clever designs in better materials and quality!
 

n13L5

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Sorry some of our products have let you down, but our main business is definitely not based on building shoddy products. That's an unfair generalization! We currently offer 99 case models for sale with prices ranging from $30 to $600, so there are going to be a few models that are built to lower price points for their target audience. So for example, a SG13 with its 0.6mm steel that retails for around $40 is not going to have the feel of SG11 that has 0.8mm steel shell, which retails for around $60. It's definitely possible $40 (or even less) can buy you more solid cases than SG13 when there are tons of case options that go on sale, promotion, or clearance on a daily basis but those aren't fair comparison either.

We have mostly built our reputation since our company founding in 2003 on great quality products and today, if you want the best built mass produced small form factor cases, we still have plenty of choices with little tanks such as CS01, FTZ01, FT03-Mini, etc... still available to choose from!

As for power supplies, Corsair's SF600 is built by Great Wall while our SX600-G is built by Enhance so we are on equal footing in this aspect. We released SX600-G in 2014 at a time when the highest wattage SFX PSU was only 450W and few cared for SFX in retail. We also invested in various case designs to help leverage the use of SFX and even courted our competitors to join us (Corsair included). If we are simply just a PSU rebrand company, both SX600-G and Corsair's SF600 (released in 2016 by the way) probably would not exist today.

With that said, in terms of pure electrical performance the SF600 is definitely better than our SX600-G as it should be for a product released two years later. Our SX650-G released last year is also a great deal better than SX600-G as well so we are not standing still.

Hi Silverstone :)

My opinion could be partially outdated, as the last time I checked your portfolio, I saw no $600 product! Maybe you have already done what I have always wished you would do ^^.

As for your PSU - two points: First was the issue with the silent mode switch, which was really annoying - which, like I said you did fix after couple of attempts. The other thing is, that trust will be low after several overly heavy cases made out of steel and plastic with somewhat sloppy fit. If I remember correctly, your PSU was actually available first and I only switched to Corsair after I couldn't stand the constant switching noises.

Corsair had an immediate trust advantage from having had high quality products from them previously, so I jumped to that the instant it became available.


So I went looking through your current cases..

I see the initially appealing PT13-120 case, but as soon as I look at materials, it says "Aluminum top cover, Steel body"

You see, this is disingenuous design, acting like Aluminum is only for looks, not for weight savings and improved heat dissipation!

When I consider getting a tiny case that works well for travels, does Silverstone really think I want to carry the needless weight of a steel base?

This is the type of cost cutting I despise. The type that keeps me buying Lian Li, even if their lay-outs are not quite as clever as your's. I don't want cases that are made half from good materials and half from bad materials. And steel IS bad, compared to aluminum in a computer case.

- Cheaped out in the same way on the
Milo Series ML06 as well
- And on the
Petit Series PT12 too
- On the
Petit Series PT15 its Aluminum top and plastic side panels - even worse than steel, and for the bottom, no info is given.
- Kudos for the
Petit Series PT14 case, that one doesn't cut corners... whew! But its only for NUC systems - don't really have use for that.
- VT01 and VT02 seem to be all aluminum. Good - Mini-STX is a bit more useful than NUC, so there's something I could buy from you.
-
Lucid Series LD01 Good small MicroATX cases are an important option. but all Steel and Glass - a heavy weight show-off case that would have better heat dispersion from LIAN LI. Meh.

I haven't found your $600 case, but going through the links I found reinforces my opinion, that the vast majority of your cases are below my standards of quality. Standards wich are served by the likes of LIAN LI, HDPLEX, STREACOM, INWIN, NFC, DAN CASE A4 and NCASE M1

(Yes, I know INWIN ranges from low to high quality, but at least they do have a number of all aluminum products)

The Verdict:

There is a clearly superior material to steel and Silverstone is only using it sporadically and even then, mostly in a detracting mix with inferior materials.



Come on guys, impress me and bring out an SFX 400, 500 or 600W PSU in an all Aluminum casing.
Saving weight and increasing heat transfer rocks!
 
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Duality92

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Hi Silverstone :)

My opinion could be partially outdated, as the last time I checked your portfolio, I saw no $600 product! Maybe you have already done what I have always wished you would do ^^.

As for your PSU - two points: First was the issue with the silent mode switch, which was really annoying - which, like I said you did fix after couple of attempts. The other thing is, that trust will be low after several overly heavy cases made out of steel and plastic with somewhat sloppy fit. If I remember correctly, your PSU was actually available first and I only switched to Corsair after I couldn't stand the constant switching noises.

Corsair had an immediate trust advantage from having had high quality products from them previously, so I jumped to that the instant it became available.


So I went looking through your current cases..

I see the initially appealing PT13-120 case, but as soon as I look at materials, it says "Aluminum top cover, Steel body"

You see, this is disingenuous design, acting like Aluminum is only for looks, not for weight savings and improved heat dissipation!

When I consider getting a tiny case that works well for travels, does Silverstone really think I want to carry the needless weight of a steel base?

This is the type of cost cutting I despise. The type that keeps me buying Lian Li, even if their lay-outs are not quite as clever as your's. I don't want cases that are made half from good materials and half from bad materials. And steel IS bad, compared to aluminum in a computer case.

- Cheaped out in the same way on the
Milo Series ML06 as well
- And on the
Petit Series PT12 too
- On the
Petit Series PT15 its Aluminum top and plastic side panels - even worse than steel, and for the bottom, no info is given.
- Kudos for the
Petit Series PT14 case, that one doesn't cut corners... whew! But its only for NUC systems - don't really have use for that.
- VT01 and VT02 seem to be all aluminum. Good - Mini-STX is a bit more useful than NUC, so there's something I could buy from you.
-
Lucid Series LD01 Good small MicroATX cases are an important option. but all Steel and Glass - a heavy weight show-off case that would have better heat dispersion from LIAN LI. Meh.

I haven't found your $600 case, but going through the links I found reinforces my opinion, that the vast majority of your cases are below my standards of quality. Standards wich are served by the likes of LIAN LI, HDPLEX, STREACOM, INWIN, NFC, DAN CASE A4 and NCASE M1


The Verdict:

There is a clearly superior material to steel and Silverstone is only using it sporadically and even then, mostly in a detracting mix with inferior materials.



Come on guys, impress me and bring out an SFX 400, 500 or 600W PSU in an all Aluminum casing.
Saving weight and increasing heat transfer rocks!

Just one thing about what you said, you can't compare Niche cases to a mass market manufacturer. So your list of LIAN LI, HDPLEX, STREACOM, INWIN, NFC, DAN CASE A4 and NCASE M1 is in reality LIAN LI and INWIN.
 

n13L5

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Aug 20, 2017
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Just one thing about what you said, you can't compare Niche cases to a mass market manufacturer. So your list of LIAN LI, HDPLEX, STREACOM, INWIN, NFC, DAN CASE A4 and NCASE M1 is in reality LIAN LI and INWIN.
Being small or even having only one product doesn't equal "niche" - that one product could serve a chunk of the market of any size. An M1 can be configured to pretty much any system a home or office user would want - including full workstation performance.

But fine, let it be just those two - that's enough. There's only one Apple and one Samsung in the phone market... But Streacom has gotten pretty big over the Years, I wouldn't strike them off the list - they have a lot of cases and you can buy them from a lot of vendors. They are only "niche" if you want to call 'quality' a niche. Are quality cars a 'niche'...? If you look at Honda, Toyota, Audi, I'd say not.

As for (not) NICHE cases - the NCase M1 blows common Mini ITX cases away to such a degree, it ONLY lacks sales because of lacking distribution, being difficult to order, with import-tariff hurdles and long distance shipping annoyances. And high pricing due to insufficient quantities being sold. A circular problem - the snake eating its tail... Its not the case that's niche...

That is the ONLY reason why they don't sell as much as popular Lian Li cases and can't match the price of LIAN LI mini towers.

From the NCase M1 guys, I'd like to see an ATX or Micro ATX case with the same clever design.
Because they have outdone Silverstone's engineers in use of space and they match or surpass Lian Li's design, layout and panel attachment techniques.


The only issue on the M1 is the vertical ODD drive slot, which invites ingress of dust through the always open drive slot, and also the alignment of the drive to the slot in the case is not flexible enough - some drives simply don't align with the slot in the aluminum top.

I should actually pop over to their part of the forum and see if they have some sort of solution for that.
 
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SilverStone

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Sorry for the late reply n13L5! We have all aluminum cases such as TJ11 mentioned earlier (which btw, retails for around $600) and NUC cases such as PT14 and PT18 still available. There is also the XForma MBX MKII chassis that we helped manufacture if you are looking for the highest quality computer case available on the planet.

Please keep in mind steel is not always inferior to aluminum when it comes to case designs. Certainly cost is one thing, but you also have to take into account of material strength/rigidity. For example, it takes 2mm to 2.5mm thick aluminum panel to match the strength of 0.8mm thick steel so if you want to be bending or forming certain parts of the case, that extra thickness could be an issue.

Speaking of steel, there are also more premium steel variants such as stainless steel, which we started using on our new LD01 case. We used it to form structures for the glass panels, so it not only looks great with its chrome-like finish, it serves to protect glass and make the panels easier to install. Using aluminum for the same purpose would have resulted in either less durable part (same thickness) or overtly large gaps (using thicker panels to compensate).
 

Thehack

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Sorry for the late reply n13L5! We have all aluminum cases such as TJ11 mentioned earlier (which btw, retails for around $600) and NUC cases such as PT14 and PT18 still available. There is also the XForma MBX MKII chassis that we helped manufacture if you are looking for the highest quality computer case available on the planet.

Please keep in mind steel is not always inferior to aluminum when it comes to case designs. Certainly cost is one thing, but you also have to take into account of material strength/rigidity. For example, it takes 2mm to 2.5mm thick aluminum panel to match the strength of 0.8mm thick steel so if you want to be bending or forming certain parts of the case, that extra thickness could be an issue.

Speaking of steel, there are also more premium steel variants such as stainless steel, which we started using on our new LD01 case. We used it to form structures for the glass panels, so it not only looks great with its chrome-like finish, it serves to protect glass and make the panels easier to install. Using aluminum for the same purpose would have resulted in either less durable part (same thickness) or overtly large gaps (using thicker panels to compensate).

Thanks for chiming in.

I myself have no issue with steel. It is just a material and engineers and designers can be creative with it if they choose to.

I think Silverstone overall is a good manufacturer and designer. You guys always innovating, more so than other manufacturers.

What I do dislike about Silverstone, and I hope you take this as constructive criticism, is that your industrial design is not very cohesive. I wish some of your designs follow a design language that is industrial and minimal.

The other issue is your products, while innovative, often times lack that final completeness. For example, RVZ01 was industry revolutionary because it is the first mainstream slim riser design. But it was overly complicated and difficult to install. RVZ02 rectified a couple of these issues, but it was not properly ventilated, especially the GPU side where the exhaust vents were too offset causing the gpu chamber to cook more than it should. The riser board was also difficult to install in some situations, with requiring screws. A flexible design would've been easier.

Your SFX-L earned a bad reputation that it has not quite recovered due to the fan issue. The SFF market is particularly picky about quality.

Those are my thoughts. I've owned or built in RVZ01, ML08, SG13, 450w bronze.
 
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Duality92

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Thanks for chiming in.

I myself have no issue with steel. It is just a material and engineers and designers can be creative with it if they choose to.

I think Silverstone overall is a good manufacturer and designer. You guys always innovating, more so than other manufacturers.

What I do dislike about Silverstone, and I hope you take this as constructive criticism, is that your industrial design is not very cohesive. I wish some of your designs follow a design language that is industrial and minimal.

The other issue is your products, while innovative, often times lack that final completeness. For example, RVZ01 was industry revolutionary because it is the first mainstream slim riser design. But it was overly complicated and difficult to install. RVZ02 rectified a couple of these issues, but it was not properly ventilated, especially the GPU side where the exhaust vents were too offset causing the gpu chamber to cook more than it should. The riser board was also difficult to install in some situations, with requiring screws. A flexible design would've been easier.

Your SFX-L earned a bad reputation that it has not quite recovered due to the fan issue. The SFF market is particularly picky about quality.

Those are my thoughts. I've owned or built in RVZ01, ML08, SG13, 450w bronze.
I had no issues with installing a very wide fanless card in the rvz01 for my review.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...634489-ocn-labs-silverstone-rvz01-e-case.html

What issues did you have?
 

Thehack

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SilverStone

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Thanks for chiming in.

I myself have no issue with steel. It is just a material and engineers and designers can be creative with it if they choose to.

I think Silverstone overall is a good manufacturer and designer. You guys always innovating, more so than other manufacturers.

What I do dislike about Silverstone, and I hope you take this as constructive criticism, is that your industrial design is not very cohesive. I wish some of your designs follow a design language that is industrial and minimal.

The other issue is your products, while innovative, often times lack that final completeness. For example, RVZ01 was industry revolutionary because it is the first mainstream slim riser design. But it was overly complicated and difficult to install. RVZ02 rectified a couple of these issues, but it was not properly ventilated, especially the GPU side where the exhaust vents were too offset causing the gpu chamber to cook more than it should. The riser board was also difficult to install in some situations, with requiring screws. A flexible design would've been easier.

Your SFX-L earned a bad reputation that it has not quite recovered due to the fan issue. The SFF market is particularly picky about quality.

Those are my thoughts. I've owned or built in RVZ01, ML08, SG13, 450w bronze.

Thanks for the feedbacks, they are all good criticism! We have multiple product managers in charge of a wide range of product lines and they are given quite a bit of freedom so innovation comes from that. But on the flip side, our design language could vary quite a bit as well because of this freedom.

Looking back at RVZ01 and RVZ02, there are certainly ways to improve them, but please remember when RVZ01 was released in 2014, that was the easiest case to build when compared to similar designs utilized by OEMs at the time. RVZ02's cooling was compromised mainly due its slimmer profile compared to RVZ01, but it still performed much better than competition that was launched around the same time (e.g. Node 202). Both cases were created during a time when reliable and cost effective flexible riser weren't available. So yeah, we certainly learned and know what can be improve on future models!

As for SFX-L, I hope our subsequent efforts such as SX700-LPT, SX800-LTI, and now the NJ450-SXL have been satisfactory? We've upgraded fans with FDB and dual ball bearing for the two former models while NJ450-SXL is the quietest retail PC power supply ever released!
 

Thehack

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Thanks for the feedbacks, they are all good criticism! We have multiple product managers in charge of a wide range of product lines and they are given quite a bit of freedom so innovation comes from that. But on the flip side, our design language could vary quite a bit as well because of this freedom.

Looking back at RVZ01 and RVZ02, there are certainly ways to improve them, but please remember when RVZ01 was released in 2014, that was the easiest case to build when compared to similar designs utilized by OEMs at the time. RVZ02's cooling was compromised mainly due its slimmer profile compared to RVZ01, but it still performed much better than competition that was launched around the same time (e.g. Node 202). Both cases were created during a time when reliable and cost effective flexible riser weren't available. So yeah, we certainly learned and know what can be improve on future models!

As for SFX-L, I hope our subsequent efforts such as SX700-LPT, SX800-LTI, and now the NJ450-SXL have been satisfactory? We've upgraded fans with FDB and dual ball bearing for the two former models while NJ450-SXL is the quietest retail PC power supply ever released!

Builds are primarily using SFX and not SFX-L, mainly because:

1. excellent quality of SF450/SF600 generally being quiet enough

2. SFX-L intrudes on precious cable tucking space

3. Most builds are single gpu so the additional power is not required.

I think they are solid offerings but most builders are prefer SFX so I think the focus should be there. Concerning fans most people prefer fluid bearings since they are less likely to sound scratchy, especially with stop fan programming - the life of the fan should be fine.

Your passive psu is a good product for those who want pure silence but it does have a niche of a niche use. Choices are good regardless.

I think you should focus on leveraging your gold rated sfx psu now that corsair is moving up market with the platinum psu. Yours can be priced a bit more competitively. But corsair offering better local support and longer warranty hurts your value proposition. I mentioned your sfx l because it got hit with the fan issue and people were looking for an alternative picked up the Sf450, that was quieter and it was only sfx. It then became the norm and now most cases are designed around sfx. The Sf450 became the "quiet" psu most people were looking for. Not to say it is faultless either because it also has fan issues but not as prominent.

RVZ02 is an excellent case minus the issues I mentioned. The lack of exhaust vents really hurt it though though. If most of the panel was ventilated, rather just a 1/3 of it which was annoyingly offset on the gpu side. Cooling performance compares to node 202 is a bit better most of the build process is easier.

You did lose out in the aesthetics department. American buyers, and especially SFF since it has an older demographic, prefers the cleaner htpc like look of the node 202.
 
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Phuncz

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I am glad how far the Silverstone SFX PSU line has come. Even though I was very criticizing in the past, I can't deny the improvements and milestones that have been achieved and I'm glad Silverstone challenges the SFF consumer marketplace in so many ways !
 

SilverStone

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I think you should focus on leveraging your gold rated sfx psu now that corsair is moving up market with the platinum psu. Yours can be priced a bit more competitively. But corsair offering better local support and longer warranty hurts your value proposition. I mentioned your sfx l because it got hit with the fan issue and people were looking for an alternative picked up the Sf450, that was quieter and it was only sfx. It then became the norm and now most cases are designed around sfx. The Sf450 became the "quiet" psu most people were looking for. Not to say it is faultless either because it also has fan issues but not as prominent.

RVZ02 is an excellent case minus the issues I mentioned. The lack of exhaust vents really hurt it though though. If most of the panel was ventilated, rather just a 1/3 of it which was annoyingly offset on the gpu side. Cooling performance compares to node 202 is a bit better most of the build process is easier.

You did lose out in the aesthetics department. American buyers, and especially SFF since it has an older demographic, prefers the cleaner htpc like look of the node 202.

You can tell from our PSU lineup that SFX is our primary focus with 9 model variants available for sale versus SFX-L's 4. Hopefully more people realize our SX500-G could be a good alternative to the current 450W SFX offers!

Node 202's cooling was a lot worse than RVZ02 / ML08 especially for GPU so most people probably didn't bother putting in high end GPU in it, and consequently complained less about cooling. Aesthetics is subjective, but we tried our best by releasing two distinctly styled cases based on the same internal chassis design with RVZ02 (gaming console look) and ML08 (HTPC look)!
 
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Duality92

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Yeah my poor little gigabyte 1070 mini get's quite toasty in my node 202, thank god its just a temporary case lol
 

VegetableStu

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You can tell from our PSU lineup that SFX is our primary focus with 9 model variants available for sale versus SFX-L's 4. Hopefully more people realize our SX500-G could be a good alternative to the current 450W SFX offers!
waiting it out for the non-L SX700-PT XD next upgrade plan demands some space transfer to require going from SFX-L to SFX
 

WiSK

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May 10, 2015
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Hopefully more people realize our SX500-G could be a good alternative to the current 450W SFX offers!

Absolutely! I have just bought one and very happy with it. Even though the ST45SF-G that it replaced was still working fine (albeit with the fan mod), I thought I should try one of the newer models.

I have always been a bit of a Silverstone SFX PSU fanboy, but recently it's impossible to argue on forums against the Corsair models because:
a) SF600 high score on JohnnyGuru, while SX650-G arbitrarily lost two(!) points for being $10 more expensive and OklahomaWolf doesn't think people will need the extra 50W. Even though the recommended min PSU for RTX2080(ti) is now 650W people are still assuming SF600 will be fine because of perceived quality.
b) Corsair fans are better than 6 year old design of the ST45SF-G, and so fan noise is poisoned for Silverstone in people's memory, and the improvement with current models is ignored.
c) Similarly, coil noise in v1 SX600-G is remembered and influences opinion about build quality of recent models.
d) Brand goodwill - I agree with what Duality mentions regarding social media presence.
e) Corsair giving a 7 year warranty says to customers "we stand by our product and it's quality" - but Silverstone giving only 3 years warranty says to customers "this thing will break before you have saved up for your next PC". Look at Kia market share improvement since it offered 7 year warranty on all car models since 2006.

Being a trailblazer to create new markets is great. But it seems like you took many of the risks and didn't find all the deserved reward. Example, Sugo SG05 and the ST45SF-G proved that you can have a decent gaming PC in 11 liters. It directly inspired the NCase M1 - the thread name on [H] was something like "please design me an aluminium SG05!". And your own example the RZV01 showed that GPU risers can be reliable and cases don't have to be shoebox shaped. So indirectly Silverstone inspired the next gen of boutique aluminium gaming cases like Dan A4 and Louqe Ghost. Unfortunately you don't have a competing product in the uSFF case niche, and also people buying those cases are preferring the SF600. What chances you missed!

While I'm here: I really liked the idea of the LD03, because it's like a renewal of the FT03-mini which was not the smallest case I owned in terms of volume, but had the smallest footprint on the desk.
 

chx

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Since we are here: have you considered releasing a 2.0 of the SFX-L PSUs especially the 800W, dropping two peripheral 2x3 connectors and adding a second 4+4 motherboard connector instead? I know in theory this "oversubscribes" the PSU but it already is as a single 8 pin can deliver 235W and a single PCIe 8 pin can deliver 150W and there are four of those. So just let's trust people they will use the PSU sensibly? These days more and more motherboards add extra power connectors and for stability it'd be great to populate all of them?