Production FormD T1 Classic (READ FIRST POST)

Increase volume from 9.8L to 10.5L to support MSI Suprim X 30XX?

  • Yes, worth the trade off to be more compatible with components

    Votes: 116 24.7%
  • No, not worth it b/c it is not better than the ROG 30XX, which fits now at <10L

    Votes: 353 75.3%

  • Total voters
    469

teodoro

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Oct 8, 2018
109
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@fabio how are the ‘auto’ turbo limits impacting performance? I saw on your blender screen cap that the 9900k dropped to 4.7, but hit 5ghz earlier in the test (which also drew more power as the maximum is higher than the current on the screenshot). I’ve never run a Blender test so I don’t know if that’s expected (or it’s just an AVX workload), but is it possible the motherboard is power limiting the cpu at times (possibly having a different impact on the 9900k vs the 8700k)?
 
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teodoro

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Oct 8, 2018
109
77
There is 129mm wide space for GPU and cooler.

The divider in the middle is designed to move left to right, so there is some wiggle room by design to take advantage of different GPU and CPU cooler combo.
Oh wow, so how much play is available in setting the divider position? E.g. how granular could one set the CPU side clearance within the 48-70mm range? I had assumed there were only two fixed positions for it to sit—having the freedom to push it a few mm one way or the other is a neat feature!
 
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fabio

Shrink Ray Wielder
Apr 6, 2016
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@fabio how are the ‘auto’ turbo limits impacting performance? I saw on your blender screen cap that the 9900k dropped to 4.7, but hit 5ghz earlier in the test (which also drew more power as the maximum is higher than the current on the screenshot). I’ve never run a Blender test so I don’t know if that’s expected (or it’s just an AVX workload), but is it possible the motherboard is power limiting the cpu at times (possibly having a different impact on the 9900k vs the 8700k)?
This is a good point. Looking at the power draw doesn't seem the MB is limiting the CPU, and the 4.7GHz lower speed I think is related to the use of AVX by Blender. I will manually remove all power limits and I will let you know!

For me, it's just strange that at the same speed, the 8700K seems faster than the 9900K anyway. Maybe is related to some microcode or whatever? (I am talking without thinking, of course...)
 
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Wahaha360

a.k.a W360
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Feb 23, 2015
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@Wahaha360 Just curious... but will there be an option for non glass side panels?... (EDIT: Just saw the non glass side panels, very nice!)

Yes, aluminum ventilated side panel.

Also another question... Will there be on option for the front panel to just be a single piece?

No, 2 tone = front must be 2 pieces anodized in different colors.

For cost reasons, no customs in 2019. Beggars can't be choosers, effectively, we don't have negotiating power with this manufacturer. They are essentially doing me a favor. I'm not saying never, but not 2019.

Also, Will a full space gray color be available? (I see in pictures something very close to this, hence the question) ... I just want to build a Mac Pro in a tiny shell, for less than a Mac Pro. (using probably a 7980XE and 64GB of RAM)

TBD.

Just FYI, Space Gray anodizing cost more than the the entire case, so an all Space Gray version will be $500+, just managing expectations.

The only way <$300 is to use *non-Apple Space Gray, like most Space Gray products on the market.
 
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masteraleph

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May 28, 2017
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Curious if there's a reason why the default configuration isn't flipped (i.e. with the fans on top). Isn't that always going to be better from an airflow perspective, especially given that the fans underneath won't have a lot of clearance from the top of the desk? And wouldn't you generally want the radiator above the pump anyways?

I guess I'm just confused about why the default is to have the fan/240mm radiator area underneath rather than above.
 
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Wahaha360

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I have a question about the divider, is the bottom corner supported somehow? It looks that with a heavy GPU and CPU cooler there could be quite some flex at this point and leading to vibration of the GPU/Motherboard during traveling with the case which would be my purpose. Is it possible to add a support to the side rail of the case to avoid the flex?



See image above. It's supported by a 10x10mm aluminum piece, no flex.

I stood on the chassis of prototype 1 (I do this with all of the cases as part of my test) and wiggle my foot around a little to feel out the how steady the frame / foundation is. I'm 80+KG.

I also stack jumped onto the chassis (no components inside).

It's got that tank feeling.
 

Wahaha360

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Oh wow, so how much play is available in setting the divider position? E.g. how granular could one set the CPU side clearance within the 48-70mm range? I had assumed there were only two fixed positions for it to sit—having the freedom to push it a few mm one way or the other is a neat feature!

Between adjusting 1) back I/O plate relative the CNC chassis, 2) PCIe riser standoffs, 3) motherboard tray mounting, 4) motherboard standoffs, I'm trying to get ~ 5mm of wiggle room, ~0.25 GPU slot.
 

Wahaha360

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Curious if there's a reason why the default configuration isn't flipped (i.e. with the fans on top). Isn't that always going to be better from an airflow perspective, especially given that the fans underneath won't have a lot of clearance from the top of the desk? And wouldn't you generally want the radiator above the pump anyways?

I guess I'm just confused about why the default is to have the fan/240mm radiator area underneath rather than above.

Positive airflow pressure = less dust inside the case.

If the fans intake from the bottom, with dust filter, the air pressure inside the case will be higher = less dusty inside.

If the case is flipped, with fans in exhaust mode, it will be negative pressure, so dust will creep into the case through the cracks.
 
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Wahaha360

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That makes sense. I look forward to testing results. Do you think a 240x30mm rad + 15mm fans would perform worse than a 120x30 rad + 25mm fan?

This is why I thought making the feet 5mm taller would be worth it, but I guess it would compromise aesthetics some. And it's really because of the filters, if you use Demciflex or Silverstone they are kind of saggy, with 5mm feet they may even touch the floor under the case, significantly obstructing airflow. So I'd probably put them in between the rad and the case floor and just vacuum the dust, but that's not ideal.

In prototype 2, a 30mm thick radiator will not touch the bottom of the case, b/c there is 41mm of vertical space for radiator.

- In the front 120mm AIO, 11mm left inside the case + 5mm on the feet, that's 16mm intake for the AIO
- For the 120x25mm fan under the Mobo, it will be 16 + 5 = 21mm of intake

For the power supply, it's moved to gain another 5mm between the cables and the fan.

The extra increase for airflow should make it enough difference to cancel out the fan filter. It will also get the most out of 120mm AIO.
 
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Seki

Chassis Packer
Nov 14, 2017
18
6
@Wahaha360 Thank you so much for your honest responses!

But yeah, I didnt mean it HAD to be space grey, just a gray color similiar to it.

EDIT: Any chance for a Black and Gray option?
 
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prava

Cable-Tie Ninja
Mar 21, 2017
171
259
@dondan I redid the test on the ASRock Z390.

Intel 9900K OC 5.0, AVX offset 3 (4.7), Cache 4.3, AUTO Voltace, VCCIO 1.05V, VCCSA 1.15V, RAM OC 3600 C16 16 36 1.36V, LLC3

Intel 8700K OC at 4.8, AVX offset 1 (4.7). Cache 4.3, AUTO Voltage , VCCIO 1.05V, VCCSA 1.15V, RAM OC 3466 C16 16 36 1.36V, LLC3
(The CPU is delidded since 1 year)

Well, it's the same, in Intel BurnTest, the 8700K crush the 9900K, with also lower RAM frequency.

(BTW, the ASRock has the best VRMs, but for memory overclock sucks. I don't know if related with the BIOS or circuitry, but the ASUS and the Gigabyte are way better for memory support/OC)

I don't know what is related to.

The way you present your temperatures makes it terribly confusing. You should not have so many windows about stuff that isn't needed. Keep temprature, voltage and frequency, ditch the rest. It will make checking your temperatures A LOT easier.
 

fabio

Shrink Ray Wielder
Apr 6, 2016
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The way you present your temperatures makes it terribly confusing. You should not have so many windows about stuff that isn't needed. Keep temprature, voltage and frequency, ditch the rest. It will make checking your temperatures A LOT easier.
You’re welcome!

But this is not about temperature...

I don’t see the problem to post all the info. Who know how to read, will read. Who cannot, have google to learn or just ask what she/he is interested for. ;)

Anyway, CORE PACKAGE is for TEMPS,
VCORE is for voltage, FREQUENCY is for FREQUENCY. Maybe is more clear!
 
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anoldfriend

Trash Compacter
Jun 23, 2018
44
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Wow! Would a sfx-l (silverstone sx-800lti) fit on this badboy, on a full aircooled build and 3 slot gpu bracket config? (nhl9i + 2080 ftw3)
Great case!
 

Wahaha360

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Wow! Would a sfx-l (silverstone sx-800lti) fit on this badboy, on a full aircooled build and 3 slot gpu bracket config? (nhl9i + 2080 ftw3)
Great case!

Not supporting SFX-L b/c the form factor is dying, as in SFX is going to get more watts soon.

The Corsair SF750 is the highest end unit, but there might be higher wattage ones for ATX cases in the future, which leaves SFX-L in a weird place.
 

Wahaha360

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Is 120x30mm radiator all you need for i9-9900K and upcoming 3700X/3800X?

Time to do some tests.



First, I want to see if HWL LS120 is better than the Koolance HX-CU420V.

fabio, can we coordinate on a radiator test?

Let's control components and setup to isolate radiator performance.

I think these are the parts we have in common
- A4 V3 chassis (no outer panels, SFX outside chassis, only aio installed, we test like open bench)
- 9900K + Asus Z390 ITX + GSkill DDR4 3200 + Samsung 960 EVO M.2
- Eisbaer LT DC-LT Pump + Noctua NF-A12x25 Sterrox Fans + XSPC TX 240 Radiator + 10mm ID Tubes
- Corsair SF600 / SF750

Here is my thinking:
1. let's pick CPU benchmark test,
2. compare Eisbaer LT DC-LT Pump + XSPC TX 240 radiator + 10mm ID tubes temperature,
3. once our results are similar on TX240 test, I will test Koolance HX-CU420V, you test HWL LS120
4. we compare results

What do you think?
 
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fabio

Shrink Ray Wielder
Apr 6, 2016
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Update 2019-02-01 : what if 120x30mm radiator is all you need for i9-9900K and upcoming 3700X/3800X

Time do some tests.


fabio, can we coordinate on a radiator test?

Let's control components to isolate HWL LS120 radiator performance.

The parts I have:


I think these are the parts we have in common
- A4 V3 chassis (no outer panels, we test like open bench)
- 9900K + Asus Z390 ITX + GSkill DDR4 3200 + Samsung 960 EVO M.2
- Eisbaer LT DC-LT Pump + Noctua NF-A12x25 Sterrox Fans + XSPC TX 240 Radiator + 10mm ID Tubes
- Corsair SF600 / SF750

Here is my thinking:
1. let's pick CPU benchmark test,
2. compare Eisbaer LT DC-LT Pump + XSPC TX 240 radiator + 10mm ID tubes res temperature,
3. once our results are similar on benchmark test, I will test Koolance HX-CU420V, you test HWL LS120
4. we compare results

What do you think?
It's perfect for me! (BTW, I have time from 7th till 11th of February.

I confirm:

- A4 V3 no panels
- 9900K (normal sample) + ASUS Z390 ITX, GSkill 3200 C14 + Samsung 970 Pro (512GB)
- Eisbaer LT DC-LT Pump + Noctua Sterrox + TX240 + 10mm Tube.
- Corsair SF600 Platinum.

I think we need to have the same tubing length maybe? How do you want to setup the DAN? Everything inside, only the radiator Outside?
You can also setup the BIOS profile, save the file and send to me! I am using the last bios.

Anyway, let me know how do you want to procede!

BTW, I cannot use the Titan RTX for now, I have an RTX 2070 or Quadro P4000 free. Is it ok?

Even without, using the iGPU ;)
 
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zzmadd

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Nov 18, 2017
136
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I have nothing to do with the testing, obviously, BUT how in hell is going to be reflective of real world if you remove the side panels?
The heat generated inside the case can effect cooling in various ways OR all the component would be effected similarly?
Thanks.
 

chyll2

Master of Cramming
Jun 27, 2018
431
362
I have nothing to do with the testing, obviously, BUT how in hell is going to be reflective of real world if you remove the side panels?
The heat generated inside the case can effect cooling in various ways OR all the component would be effected similarly?
Thanks.
It would at least provide ideal and equal scenario to compare the usual 240mm AIO and the proposed 120mm AIO. The idea is to support the suggestion that a proper 120 is on par or better than some 240mm.

You can't perform that test on the prototype since IRC, it doesn't accept 240 rad
 

fabio

Shrink Ray Wielder
Apr 6, 2016
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It would at least provide ideal and equal scenario to compare the usual 240mm AIO and the proposed 120mm AIO. The idea is to support the suggestion that a proper 120 is on par or better than some 240mm.

You can't perform that test on the prototype since IRC, it doesn't accept 240 rad
Actually, it supports the 240 rad! Just some, but the support is there.

BUT in any case, even with the panel ON, is not a real scenario, because the case is different! As @chyll2 said, it is to compare the cooling performance of 120 rad with the 9900K!