SFF Mini ITX vs Micro PC's?

[LeDelmo]

Hello, I was wondering exactly what do you gain by going with Mini itx over these new Micro PC? (Such as the Lenovo M series Tiny PC and Gigabyte BRIX)

I am asking because I have always been interested in the Micro PC's. But, never really understood what exactly separates them from other's functionally.

I even wonder
if a Mirco PC would have been a better option for myself. After I built the Chopin with the 2200G CPU.

My Parents are going to be needing a new PC and am just trying to figure out what would best fit their needs.
My Options are build them a SFF Mini ITX, buy a Micro PC, or buy a All-In-One PC.

 

[warfreak131]

Modularity and an upgrade path.

As long as the pinouts are compatible and the OEM keeps them updated, there's nothing stopping you from upgrading a CPU to a new generation or a more powerful one. The same goes for RAM.

For modularity, on a regular socketed motherboard, if something breaks, just remove it and replace it. On a micro PC, you'll probably find soldered CPUs, soldered RAM, and special heatsinks/fans. If any of those breaks, you're probably S.O.L. in terms of repair.

 

[Planck]

Lenovo M are high pitched and noisy under load and power crippled. 35watts not enough for i7-8700 to boost fully. Itx will have better vrms and a much quieter heatsink.

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

Lenovo M are high pitched and noisy under load and power crippled. 35watts not enough for i7-8700 to boost fully. Itx will have better vrms and a much quieter heatsink.

That's from a "gamer/power user" point of view. For 99% of the computer users, a 35w CPU is way more than they'd ever need.

I'm a professional dev and been using a 35w 4th gen i7 for years, without issues or being limited.

 

[Windfall]

That's from a "gamer/power user" point of view. For 99% of the computer users, a 35w CPU is way more than they'd ever need.

I'm a professional dev and been using a 35w 4th gen i7 for years, without issues or being limited.

Likewise, my workstation is running an 8700T and a WX4100 right now, and consuming nearly 80W at the wall.

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

Likewise, my workstation is running an 8700T and a WX4100 right now, and consuming nearly 80W at the wall.

i7-4785T + GT1030 on my workstattion, might be slightly below your wattage

 

[Windfall]

i7-4785T + GT1030 on my workstattion, might be slightly below your wattage

Considering underclocking just to flex on you...



Okay, let's not derail this topic.

 

[August]

The other side of the argument against proprietary components is that for someone who isn’t interested in tinkering, being able to put the whole thing in a box and mail it in for warranty service might be a huge benefit.

I’d keep in mind (for your folks) what their expectations are of you to provide support. There was a fella in the Hackintosh subreddit asking whether they should build a Hack for their dad, and I was delighted to see that the community answered pragmatically— “get a real Mac.” (Not because I have any allegiance, but because it’s what’s made Apple successful—a complete, end-to-end product that includes pretty generous support, training, and hardware service)

That said, there’s so little that could go wrong with an APU build that it could be a fun opportunity for you to share your curiosity with them, and just be on board to help when anything does go belly-up. ? Subscribe them to BackBlaze or another complete cloud backup product, and they’ll be as risk-averse as anyone!

P.S. Cool to see some other low-power-power-users in here. Just got my hands on an 8500T for a workstation and it absolutely screams with an NVMe disk—even with integrated graphics. ?

 

[Windfall]

The other side of the argument against proprietary components is that for someone who isn’t interested in tinkering, being able to put the whole thing in a box and mail it in for warranty service might be a huge benefit.

I’d keep in mind (for your folks) what their expectations are of you to provide support. There was a fella in the Hackintosh subreddit asking whether they should build a Hack for their dad, and I was delighted to see that the community answered pragmatically— “get a real Mac.” (Not because I have any allegiance, but because it’s what’s made Apple successful—a complete, end-to-end product that includes pretty generous support, training, and hardware service)

That said, there’s so little that could go wrong with an APU build that it could be a fun opportunity for you to share your curiosity with them, and just be on board to help when anything does go belly-up. ? Subscribe them to BackBlaze or another complete cloud backup product, and they’ll be as risk-averse as anyone!

P.S. Cool to see some other low-power-power-users in here. Just got my hands on an 8500T for a workstation and it absolutely screams with an NVMe disk—even with integrated graphics. ?

All very valid points. I want a thinkstation p330 tiny, because it's so cute, but also because if it breaks, lenovo onsite support will fix it within 24 hours.

Welcome to the T-gang!

 

[LeDelmo]

What would you all recommend for older people? I'm really not good at deciding what would be best for others. (I myself only went SFF because aesthetically I preferred it)

My Dad has allot of trouble with electronics. My Mom's finally getting used to them because of her tablet.
She also doesnt like how big their current computer is. And that one is only 10L.

I really don't want them using that old PC anymore. As its really out dated. But, I can't decide what form factor would be best for them. I am even considering a Tablet PC. But to me in my mind that just doesn't seem like a Full computer. (No Mouse, No Keyboard, No Monitor)

This will be a Christmas gift so I got a little time.

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

What do they currently have ? What do they use it for ? What's your budget ?

Let's start from the begining

 

[LeDelmo]

What do they currently have ? What do they use it for ? What's your budget ?

Let's start from the begining

They got a old Windows 7 Acer... 4Gb Ram, Pentium E5700 Dual Core

I'd like to keep the budget under $600. And like I said they mainly use it for work. She works at a School and they make her do a bunch of stuff online. She also uses it to get and maintain her works certifications. And she uses the computer for making and printing documents. And like I said my Dad doesn't really use it. He might look something up online every now and than tho. Other than that I really am not sure what else they do with it. They did get a new printer I know.

They really don't need much. Just something simple and functional for them.

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

LGA775 then ... that's quite old and underpowered indeed. Have you been considering thin mini-ITX or STX (Asrock Deskmini barebone) ? You can build a very decent rig at an affordable price point, while being small (if external power brick is not an issue for you).

Lenovo tiny series have models with socketed CPU and SO-DIMM laptop RAM modules, thus leaving an update path.

I myself use an Asus Q87T, with an i7-4785T, Thermaltake Engine27 heatsink, 16GB of DDR3L, a 500GB mSATA SSD and a 90W Dell power brick. I also have a GT1030 that I plug when I want to play Path of Exile, but I run off the iGPU most of the time.

Here's a link to the thin mini-ITX discution thread, if you're interested

 

[LeDelmo]

What kind of case options are there for STX?

If I have to build it I'd probably do another Mini ITX because I know they have plenty of Nice looking Mini Cases for them. For about $400 I know I could make a Clone of My Chopin build with the Silver Chopin case instead or use Realan E-W60 case. The 2200G is a great little APU as-well and this time I could just use the stock Cooler. Plus, Memory is allot Cheaper now than when I got mine. And I think 8GB would be more than enough for their needs.

I have been looking at All-in-One prices and am kinda disappointing with how expensive they are.
The Mini PC's are still interesting. But the prices are all over the place. These ones do come with one added benefit. And that's they comes with a activated Windows 10 already. (Windows 10 is WAY too expensive.)

Plus, I still need a Monitor, Keyboard, and mouse.

 

[Choidebu]

For parents' use, e.g. social media and light browsing I generally veer towards prebuilts or middle range barebone NUCs. The reason being these machines would not likely be upgraded in 6-7 years' time. Upgrading to a new pc after that, you'll most likely be replacing the motherboard and the cpu anyway, might as well get some conveniences to just RMA or send off to repair the whole thing rather than part per part.

Just get a good ram and best ssd you can buy, set and done.

Get a good monitor and mount it behind, you got and AIO.

Travelling? Bring a wireless multimedia keyboard with touch pad, plug to hotel TVs.

 

[Planck]

That's from a "gamer/power user" point of view. For 99% of the computer users, a 35w CPU is way more than they'd ever need.

I'm a professional dev and been using a 35w 4th gen i7 for years, without issues or being limited.

Actually it is from a viewpoint of a person who detests noise, especially whiney laptop fans. If I'm reading/concentrating that really bugs me. it does not have to be prime95... even a Windows update or other moderate loads can trigger noise. The more constrained the tdp, the lighter the workload that induces noise. It may not bug alot of people, but it will some and it does me. Only way to get silence is enthusiast cooling

 

[Planck]

All very valid points. I want a thinkstation p330 tiny, because it's so cute, but also because if it breaks, lenovo onsite support will fix it within 24 hours.

Welcome to the T-gang!

I find onsite support to be a crap shoot. I've had Dell and Lenovo onsite service multiple times. Lenovo is better though in that I've convinced them more than once to trust my diagnosis and just send me a part. But the on-site techs, when they show up, are frequently not skilled and make mistakes. I've more than once had to instruct them how to correctly do their job. FYI this was service on thinkpads, thinkstations, and dell precision laptops.

 

[Planck]

The other side of the argument against proprietary components is that for someone who isn’t interested in tinkering, being able to put the whole thing in a box and mail it in for warranty service might be a huge benefit.

I’d keep in mind (for your folks) what their expectations are of you to provide support. There was a fella in the Hackintosh subreddit asking whether they should build a Hack for their dad, and I was delighted to see that the community answered pragmatically— “get a real Mac.” (Not because I have any allegiance, but because it’s what’s made Apple successful—a complete, end-to-end product that includes pretty generous support, training, and hardware service)

That said, there’s so little that could go wrong with an APU build that it could be a fun opportunity for you to share your curiosity with them, and just be on board to help when anything does go belly-up. ? Subscribe them to BackBlaze or another complete cloud backup product, and they’ll be as risk-averse as anyone!

P.S. Cool to see some other low-power-power-users in here. Just got my hands on an 8500T for a workstation and it absolutely screams with an NVMe disk—even with integrated graphics. ?

6 years ago(both ivy bridge based), I purchased a Dell Precision laptop for mother in law and built a sff PC for father in law with top shelf enthusiast parts. Both still work, the sff PC gets a lot more abuse and has never had issues. The Dell has been repaired multiple times under warranty. A benefit to giving a parent a slightly overkill PC performance wise, is it ages better increasing time between upgrades, which are time consuming.

 

[LeDelmo]

Actually having a manufacture warranty would be a huge plus.

I think I found 3 viable candidates.

Lenovo IdeaCentre A340 All-In-One

IdeaCentre A340 AIO | 22 Inch All in One Computer

Financing as low as 0%✅ Price Match Guarantee✅ Free Shipping✅ Stylish and spacing-saving, the Lenovo IdeaCentre A340 all in one desktop meets all your home computing needs. Intel processor, 22 inch FHD touchscreen display.

www.lenovo.com

Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q

Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q Mini PC, Intel Core i3-7100T 3.4GHz, 8GB RAM, 256GB NVMe SSD, DisplayPort, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Windows 10 Pro - Newegg.com

Buy Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q Mini PC, Intel Core i3-7100T 3.4GHz, 8GB RAM, 256GB NVMe SSD, DisplayPort, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Windows 10 Pro with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

HP Pro Desk 405 G4

DELL OPTIPLEX 3070 Desktop PC - Intel Core i5 9500 - Newegg.com

Buy HP Desktop Computer ProDesk 405 G4 6VC52UT#ABA Ryzen 5 1st Gen 2400GE (3.20GHz) 8GB DDR4 256 GB SSD AMD Radeon RX Vega 11 Windows 10 Pro with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

And the fact the Mini PC's and all-in-one having manufacture support is a very big benefit over a DIY ITX build. Now that I think about it.

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

What kind of case options are there for STX?

The Asrock Deskmini is an STX barebone and comes with a chassis + power brick. You only have to add CPU, RAM and storage.

HP Pro Desk 405 G4

My company uses those exact same HP and it works well. Make sure you get one with an SSD. Modern PC shouldn't use HDD for OS anymore .

I'd advise to stay away from the older AMD PRO-A models.

Actually it is from a viewpoint of a person who detests noise, especially whiney laptop fans. If I'm reading/concentrating that really bugs me. it does not have to be prime95... even a Windows update or other moderate loads can trigger noise. The more constrained the tdp, the lighter the workload that induces noise. It may not bug alot of people, but it will some and it does me. Only way to get silence is enthusiast cooling

I wasn't arguing about the noise or the Lenovo Tiny / blower type cooler.

I have severe tinnitus and hyperacusis. I know too well what noise is as my limit is at bedroom noise level.

Lemme quote properly...

and power crippled. 35watts not enough for i7-8700 to boost fully. Itx will have better vrms

It will be a paperwork + web machine. What does boost, vrms or power have to do here ? User is not asking for a another gaming or **** waving rig. It's easier to cool a 35w CPU than a power hog and the chassis will be smaller too since (s)he won't need a full tower or AIO to keep it cool&quiet.

For example, an i9-9900T under load is 20C cooler than an i9-9900 or an i7-8700 .... Hence lower noise.