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These aren't stock black ALPS and shouldn't really be considered the same as them. They are modded quite a bit to make them have a much harder tactile bump and lubed to keep everything feeling smooth. I've got a ALPS64 with lubed Salmons that I find alright, but after using my modded blacks with that nice sharp and heavy tactile bump I find the Salmons bump to be too weak. I had a set of Blues that I was going to put in to that board too but I ended up not liking the sound that much so I sold them off.