Rant: DVI - Old, or Still Relevant?

[confusis]

This is one of a series of mini-rants by your faithful correspondent, John Morrison. These are part of a series focusing on issues in the SFF niche. All content is entirely opinion of John, not of SmallFormFactor.net, and should not be taken as fact.

Rumours of DVI's death have been greatly exaggerated. While the analogue backwards compatibility portion of the DVI standard has pretty much been relegated to the low end cards (understandable given the low end cards are usually rebrands of older units), the chunky, old-school DVI plug still stubbornly remains on our GPUs and motherboards. Whyyyy?

Read more here.

 

[3lfk1ng]

On enthusiast cards - kill it with fire!
On budget cards - is it time to replace VGA with DVI?

I personally think that it's time to move the ball forward and not let such ancient technology hold us back.

From experience I know that there are bandwidth issues on DVI that require a high-awg, barely-flexible, cable in order to function at 120Hz on various displays over 1440p resolution. While this is definitely a niche case in the overall market, it's still a limitation that is easier to overcome with readily available technology that has been around since 2008 (DP, VGA was 1987, DVI was 1999). As a quick example, using a highly flexible and extremely thin DP cable causes an issue free experience with plenty of bandwidth to spare.

Also, while we are at it can we take out that bulky 24-pin motherboard power connector and replace it with something better?

 

[confusis]

I agree with, wholeheartedly.

"On enthusiast cards - kill it with fire!
On budget cards - is it time to replace VGA with DVI?"

 

[jtd871]

On enthusiast cards - kill it with fire!

I'd use hot napalm (don't forget the contact trigger), a Death's Head and a funky bomb.

 

[Kmpkt]

Also, while we are at it can we take out that bulky 24-pin motherboard power connector and replace it with something better?

8 pin 12V in with all other conversion being done on board would be amazing. 6 pairs of 12V/Gnd, a PWR-OK and maybe a -12V for motherboards that need it? What maximum wattage would that give?

 

[Arboreal]

I still have flat screens in the family that are VGA / DSub only, and that's fine with boards with IGP and analogue outputs. I only just got my first HDMI only monitor (used) last year, and was very shocked when i powered it up for the first time...
I didn't realise that it had built in speakers, and it made me jump when it made a noise on startup!!
DVI-I may still have a place to lose a DSub on lower end cards, but on high end stuff, DVI-D is (as I understand it) electrically identical to HDMI, so they are easily and cheaply adaptable. Therefore it can go, and make more room for other things or better ventilation.
That said, looking at pics of the rear of the GTX 1080Ti was a bit unusual for a moment with HDMI & DP only
Never owned or used a DP monitor, that's uncharted territory as yet - new fangled connections

There are other things more worthy of killing with fire IMHO, like @Kmpkt said 24pin ATX

 

[ChainedHope]

I still convert hdmi/dvi to vga occasionally. They arent as useful as they used to be but sometimes they are necessary. For example, I work with a few FPGAs that have a VGA connector and do a lot of GUI and graphics work on them for retro projects and some of them work with a passive VGA-2-HDMI adapter, but most of them do not and require a native VGA port. Ive also got an old 75Hz CRT that I use for a retro emulation station and need the VGA to go to component cables as HDMI to component gives me a weird color inaccuracy in some games.

 

[LocoMoto]

DVI isn't dead, VGA isn't dead, EGA is dying.
HDMI is at large unfortunately, Normal sized Displayport the same... MiniDP is dwindling 'c)
Thunderbolt Type-C is somewhat on the rise (YES!)

The more analogue adapters should stay on the older and some future lower end hardware while the digital higher bandwidth... especially more compact adapters should be adopted more widely on new hardware.

We should also strive to innovate and make stuff obsolete, manufacture it to not survive long and cash in the dough.

 

[nox]

i don't really care what happens with DVI & VGA as long as we start seeing more single slot capable GPU's. To my knowledge there is only a 1050ti, r9 nano (which are very expensive again) and the founders 1080ti/titan pascal. I want to put two 'decent' GPU's in my M1 and it's not going to happen any time soon at this rate and that 180ti is a little too pricey for me right now

Although maybe a r9 pro duo might suffice now i think of it...

 

[VegetableStu]

Yeah, the last montior that uses DVI on my PC has been set aside. There's nothing much I can think to add to this topic.

It's good for backwards compatibility, but the way things are shaped (literally) doesn't allow for multi-compatible setups in that one port (unlike how USB3 still carries the base USB2 fingers and signals), and tackling that would probably cause xkcd 927

 

[EdZ]

Having worked with even low-end Quadro cards, there is only one port that needs to exist on any GPU: Mini-DisplayPort++

With the correct hardware on the GPU itself and ultra-cheap passive adapters, you can output from a DP++ (mini or otherwise) port:
- DisplayPort, including multi-stream
- DVI single-link
- HDMI (inc. audio)
- VGA

This leaves only DVI dual-link as the 'missing' option. The majority of early 1080p LCDs that 'required' dual-link DVI will also happily run off of single-link DVI with Reduced Blanking intervals, leaving the only monitors not served by a mini-DP++ only card being the handful of 'overclockable' Korean 2560x1440 LCDs that became popular for a year or two.

USB Type-C's Alternate Modes come close to mini-DP++'s flexibility, and may be a good replacement in the future, but mini-DP++ has the benefit of being in active use for this exact purpose for several years, does not require GPU vendors to implement an on-card or on-die USB hub to use, and does not require active signalling in the adapter (required for Type C Alternate Mode adapters).

 

[JosephEK]

My monitor is a cheap 140 dollar ViewSonic that's 1920x1080p resolution and 75Hz refresh rate. It's supposed to have Freesync, but I couldn't get it working with my RX 460 for some reason, not that I really cared.

My RX 460 has Displayport, HDMI and DVI, but I chose Displayport because people told me it was "best" and to be honest I still don't quite understand the difference. I would assume just my looking at them that Displayport or HDMI are the best going into the future, they look like glorified USB plugs/ports.

I don't see myself upgrading from 1920x1080p anytime soon, but perhaps one day a 2 monitor setup might seem appealing.

 

[stree]

Twice I have had HDMI ports fail ( PC end) so just use DVI-D. Pin 19 issue with HDMI it seems, Not a perfect art form.

 

[LjSpike]

We should also strive to innovate and make stuff obsolete, manufacture it to not survive long and cash in the dough.

We already "cash in the dough", at least in the majority of products these days. It's called planned obsolescence, which is a bit of a problem considering the resource shortages on the planet and the really bad state of our climate currently... It's done on iPhones with the lack of OS updates on older devices, it happens on all appliances (a 1980's washing machine will probably die after one made in 2000, and the latter can't be as easily repaired). Really what we should be doing is aiming to make bigger advances with each release of technology, rather than release masses of it with tiny improvements.

I do think a new specification with adorning form factors is needed and a company to produce them. Fitted to it could be a whole array of more modern, and perhaps even some completely new ports, and new technologies to compact it a bit more. Sadly I'm not much the pro with circuitry yet so it won't be for the foreseeable future I jump out with a new motherboard company

 

[danger]

Most of my monitors still use DVI exclusively (Korean 27" 2560x1440s). I would have no problem using an adapter so long as it is included with the card.

 

[chx]

i don't really care what happens with DVI & VGA as long as we start seeing more single slot capable GPU's. To my knowledge there is only a 1050ti, r9 nano (which are very expensive again) and the founders 1080ti/titan pascal. I want to put two 'decent' GPU's in my M1 and it's not going to happen any time soon at this rate and that 180ti is a little too pricey for me right now

Although maybe a r9 pro duo might suffice now i think of it...

Hrm? Single slot 1080 Ti? Titan? What...? The only single slot card I am aware of in the Polaris/Pascal generation is the XFX RX 460 and a Japan-only ELSA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4 GB SP.

 

[LjSpike]

Hrm? Single slot 1080 Ti? Titan? What...? The only single slot card I am aware of in the Polaris/Pascal generation is the XFX RX 460 and a Japan-only ELSA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4 GB SP.

Yeah, the founders edition 1080 ti I'm pretty sure is single slot. Not sure with the titan pascal though... The 1050 ti is single slot too. Not really looked at the r9 nano though.

 

[SeñorDonut]

Personally, I have 2 DVI monitors and I think DVI needs to die (as far as being on GPUs goes). I already drive them both over adapters anyway.

 

[nox]

ok i looked, i could not find a single slot titan pascal (seemed to remember one though...)

the founders 1080ti is single slot potentially, with a water block

r9 nano is too, in fact theres a great video on linus tech tips about 7x single slot watercooled r9 nanos in one computer. he normally irritates me a bit but the content on that video was pretty interesting.

there was also a 980ti kingpin edition thats long since gone

hmmm at risk of changing the thread away from the topic so i vote get rid of dvi and make more single slot cards (and dual gpu cards)

 

[ChainedHope]

ok i looked, i could not find a single slot titan pascal (seemed to remember one though...)

the founders 1080ti is single slot potentially, with a water block

r9 nano is too, in fact theres a great video on linus tech tips about 7x single slot watercooled r9 nanos in one computer. he normally irritates me a bit but the content on that video was pretty interesting.

there was also a 980ti kingpin edition thats long since gone

hmmm at risk of changing the thread away from the topic so i vote get rid of dvi and make more single slot cards (and dual gpu cards)

Can confirm the R9 Nano single slot with a waterblock, had 2 of them in a build but could never find a mATX board with both connectors slotted together (i.e. no space instead of 1 space), so it didnt really matter if you wanted to go with 2-way crossfire.