Discussion Power hungry systems and SFF cases
- Thread starter AhmadM
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Well I think... your not gonna remotely get all your performance in a SFF case because how hot things are gonna get even with just the 4090.... I'm wondering if their gonna have thermal throttling issues even on a open air test bench at room temp....
I cannot imagine in any way shape or form a computer that needs over 1000watts is gonna magically not be pumping out as much heat as a 1000+watt heater.
I cannot imagine in any way shape or form a computer that needs over 1000watts is gonna magically not be pumping out as much heat as a 1000+watt heater.
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Be sure to read up on the terms and rules of the forum. Mainly for buying and selling or other commercial activity on the forum as the access is limited and the rules are strictly enforced.
As a new user you're probably not able to edit posts or links just yet, so if a substantial error was made, click the Report-button in the post.
Hope to see you around, enjoy the wonderful world of SFF !
It's about heat dissipation and power delivery.
A true SFF case must use a SFX PSU, and the most powerful one money can buy is rated for 750w. There is a 850w coming from FSP, but not distributed yet (at least here in Europe) and it won't have enough juice for a 4090 with a big CPU.
Will Seasonic be able to propose a 1000w PSU in the SFX constraints and following the ATX 3.0 norm? I have not seen any announcement.
If they don't, you will need a tower to host a 7950x/13900k with a 4090 in order to run them at their normal potential.
A true SFF case must use a SFX PSU, and the most powerful one money can buy is rated for 750w. There is a 850w coming from FSP, but not distributed yet (at least here in Europe) and it won't have enough juice for a 4090 with a big CPU.
Will Seasonic be able to propose a 1000w PSU in the SFX constraints and following the ATX 3.0 norm? I have not seen any announcement.
If they don't, you will need a tower to host a 7950x/13900k with a 4090 in order to run them at their normal potential.
It's simple really. Just use 3 SFF cases, duh. One for psu, one for mobo + cpu, then one eGPU.
There's still a problem....and that is 120V service in many parts of the world. With a single GPU system with a high-end CPU needing 1kW+ just for the tower....then eyeball another 100W for the monitor. And another XXX watts for normal room lighting--that is getting very close to maxing out a 15A service.
Many parts of the world is a little bit exaggerated but the US and Japan (List of Worldwide AC Voltages and Frequencies by Ron Kurtus - Physics Lessons: School for Champions (school-for-champions.com)) might be a problem, yes. But even in that case the spikes get buffered by the PSU, not the power line. So 800W powerdraw from the line is still plenty for a 4090 and stuff.
Off topic but this gets me wondering, how do you power things like toasters, ovens and other stuff that pulls 1-2 kW of power at 120v?
In the USA, anyway, high draw appliances like electric ovens don't use 120V service or the normal '120 Edison' or NEMA 5-15 outlet.... They use 240V and NEMA 14-30 or NEMA 15-50 outlets. They also don't use the standard 12 or 14AWG wiring, instead either 8 or 6 AWG wiring, and a 30A-ganged or 50A-ganged circuit breaker in place of a 15A-single one.
Same for other high draw appliances like HVAC, water heaters, or washer/dryers etc. If you ever get an EV at your house and want fast charging--you'll need to call an electrician to run 240V service, and need room on your panel for it.
i think the more bummers thing is that the upcoming/current(??) cards are allowed to chug more power as an when it's thermally allowed, and with Nvidia trying to one-up everyone (and their own existing 30-series stuff they're trying to sell out of) by making chonkier coolers, people who're unvolting or power-limiting their cards don't have options to easily switch to smaller air coolers
currently those with the deepest pockets could afford custom watercooling and slimming the GPU down to one slot, but we still gotta wait for reviews (and custom WC builders) to see how much radiator it takes to tame it as shipped (or even overclocked)
currently those with the deepest pockets could afford custom watercooling and slimming the GPU down to one slot, but we still gotta wait for reviews (and custom WC builders) to see how much radiator it takes to tame it as shipped (or even overclocked)
You can get rid of the big air cooler of the new GPU with a liquid cooling plate, that's great. But where do you put the 240mm+ radiator that goes with it in a SFF case? You would need a custom loop cooling down the CPU and the GPU with 1 radiator, but that's going to be super costly and challenging to build.
Now that you mention it...
Just put a car radiator next room and hook it up with quick connect or smth.
Well, technically if you can build up a 15 liter case with liquid cooling adapters for CPU and GPU that would just require to be connected to an external pump and radiators, like the XMG Oasis for laptops, you are still a SFF build right?
Maybe that's not such a stupid idea...
Maybe that's not such a stupid idea...
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The future of SFFPC....EATX cases crammed with radiators, needing their own dedicated 240V 200A 3-phase power supply...located in another room on the other side of the building, with the monitor/KB/mouse connected by thunderbolt dock by optical cable.
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Afterkmarket PC phase change cooling was a thing in the early 2000s (e.g. Asetek Vapochill and Prometiea) among overclocking enthusiasts. It was the only way to get sub-ambient (or even sub-zero) temperatures. They weren't that practical though, as they were bulky and used a bunch of electricy, and you had to deal with things like condensation and frost. Overclocking in general has also waned in popularity over the years, and for people who still wanted to push things watercooling was good enough.
Your question also seems to imply a fundamental misunderstanding: any type of cooling solution doesn't make heat disappear from the universe (see the first law of thermodynamics), it can only move heat from one place to another. In the case of a refrigeration cycle (phase change) cooler, you're actually using extra electricity (to run the compressor) to move that heat away from the CPU. So not only do you have the CPU's heat, but now you have the additional heat from running the compressor to contend with (typically hundreds of watts). So unless you're venting the heat directly to the outside, you'd actually be making the room hotter than if you just ran a regular CPU cooler or AIO.
My apologies I probably should have written with a bit more sarcasm instead of sounding very serious.
Though in my case I already passed out once from heat exhaustion in my office due to a lack of cool going to the room. .. Amazing what 4" flex hose and printed adapters from a downstairs vent to a tower blower fan do! Went from 80-100f in the summer to 75-82f
Though I have a feeling even in a large form factor room heating is a gonna be worse than previous gens.... Unless you live somewhere cold
Though in my case I already passed out once from heat exhaustion in my office due to a lack of cool going to the room. .. Amazing what 4" flex hose and printed adapters from a downstairs vent to a tower blower fan do! Went from 80-100f in the summer to 75-82f
Though I have a feeling even in a large form factor room heating is a gonna be worse than previous gens.... Unless you live somewhere cold
TBH I'm just calling it that these new CPU's and graphics cards aren't for me, they're for people who want high FPS at any cost including trending power usage UP whereas I want an increase in performance with power usage trending down.
I'll have to wait I guess until someone maybe even an AIB produces a lower power graphics card that's got improved performance over a RX 470/480/580 etc.
I mean, that's not true whatsoever (PSU size). You're putting more arbitrary rules on SFF that just adds to the gate-keeping.
20 Liters is the universally accepted rule for an SFF chassis. It doesn't require anything other than that, and even those numbers are disingenuous when, for instance, someone builds a full ATX rig in something that's 25 Liters or less.
The fact of the matter is that SFF, with these new cards, is absolutely impractical for a vast majority of people. Most air cooled cards and those attached to AIOs are going to be stupidly big AND hot.
SFF is going to have to change its requirement specs due to new GPUs, otherwise, it's going to have a hard time surviving as a niche of a niche.
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