Ncase M1 v5 build - Max on air...

MultiDoc

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Feb 2, 2018
304
197
Hello everyone,

Before going forward (this thread/build will be a while), just a bit of background.

I’ve always have been and will remain dedicated to air cooling, accepting the pros and cons of course. This time for this PC I wanted to finally build one in a mini case with max performance and reasonably quiet . I’ve always used to build my PC with max or close to max performance within my budget and I almost never upgraded a build (at least the core components) whithin it’s “lifetime” (lifetime = for as long as it was my primary PC). They were all donated to family and friends when I was moving on to a new build.

Now I accidentally came across the Ncase M1 and immediately I fell for it. It’ll be a huge change to what I was used to previously, imagine that my last build which was a “downscale” by my standards was using a Corsair Carbide Air 540 (with a total of 6 case fans...) that replaced my Obsidian 800D (which in turn had replaced my full coolermaster tower) !

Since I decided on first sight what the case would be, then I spent a few weeks on reading and catching up with current components, almost a whole week to read through the whole thread over at hardforums about the ncase and some more reading in general.
Remember this will be a literally “build from scratch”, everything (except for the NAS and the headphones) will be new, even the mousepad

Then it was time to start sourcing and finding parts...

The list of components that’ll be in the build will be as follows:

Case: Ncase M1 v5
MOBO: Asus Strix z370-I
CPU: Intel 8700K
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D9L
RAM: Corsair LPX 2x16GB @ 2400
GPU: Asus Strix GTX1080Ti OC
SSD: Samsung 960Pro M.2 1TB
PSU: Corsair SF600
Keyboard: Wooting One
Mouse: Logitech G703
Monitor: Asus ROG Swift PG279Q

And now the rest bits/mods/accessories/needed parts to complete the build:

2 x Noctua NF-B9 Redux PWM (to go on the cpu cooler)
2 x Noctua NF-S12A PWM (for exhaust at the bottom of the case, acting as GPU coolers after I remove the stock shroud from the GPU. That’s the best suggested configuration for this GPU in this case, as per the forums cumulative wisdom)
1 x Noctua NF-A9x14 PWM (the 2500rpm version to replace the stock fan on the Corsair PSU, was really hard to find this since Noctua doesn’t sell it on its own, the retail version is lower rpm but more significantly higher starting voltage; while this one being lower means it doesn’t suffer from “clicking” and starting/ maintaining lower rpms, therefore more silent and cooler operation)
Noctua fan splitter cables & antivibration mounts and that (again hard to find) 2pin fan adapter that comes only as an accessory with the NF-A4x10 fan. Yes, I did buy one just for that.
DEMCifilters for the case: will see in the end which one I’ll use.
Aftermarket feet (from mnpctech) to raise the case a bit and help with airflow.
4 to 2 pin adaptor with the CB-32D plug in order to plug the Noctua fan on the stock PSU header.
I also bought an XSPC temp sensor 2 pin cable in case in the end I decide to hook the PSU fan on the motherboard’s chassis header and make it’s operation temp dependant.
Gelid PWM fan adaptor to plug both NF-S12A’s on the GPU’s oem header so they’ll be controlled by the GPU.
A couple rubber plugs to plug the two holes on the rear of the case that are meant to accommodate water tubing.
Delid tool from Rockit Cool to delid the cpu, so that I can have as low temps as possible to deal with (along with some TIM and other bits and bobs for the job).
Got a set of sleeved cables for the SF from Corsair to start with. If they work ok they’ll remain, otherwise at some point I might take the plunge and use the discount coupon for CableMod (came with the motherboard from Asus).
A set of Bose Companion 2 series III speakers (very limited space on the desk and no room for subwoofer, so a 2.0 setup was the only way, and these are reasonably good with a good price too).
And lastly a wrist rest to go with the keyboard. Got a glorious pc gaming TKL one, hope it’ll be as comfy as the guy that suggested it to me.

Now from all these (that I started sourcing and ordering about two weeks ago), i have received some but still expecting delivery for the case, delid tools, monitor and ram.

I’d think that in the coming days the rest of the parts will arrive and soon I’ll be able to actually start the build. For the time being I’m just stocking and gathering parts.

There’s a slight (or not so slight problem though).... with all the crazy crypto mining of late, the GPU I’m after is out of stock everywhere and only a couple available at exorbitant prices that I definitely won’t pay. Any idea of where I might be able to find one more reasonably priced without having to wait long ?

Being a “build log post” excuse the lack of pics for the time being, I’ll be updating the thread with pics hopefully soon enough, as soon as I have everything delivered and can get on with building. Will need to start with the deliding and reliding and take it from there.

To be continued...

P.S: the loooong hours spent reading and researching other sff builds, comments and advise on the forums, has been invaluable. Thanks again to everyone that adds a bit of knowledge for us all to share.
 
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kittysox

Cable-Tie Ninja
Aug 8, 2017
156
195
Awesome can’t wait. I’ve been a fan of the ncase since I first saw one at byoc in quakecon a few years ago
 

tinyitx

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 25, 2018
2,279
2,338
Looking forward to see how this build develops!

In the meantime, may I ask a couple questions:-
1) how you come to decide on using the NH-D9L? What other coolers have you considered?
2) Which aftermarket case feet have you ordered?

Maybe you can show some pics of your current Air 540 to show where you came from.
This should keep us the fans of pics quiet for a while.:)
 

MultiDoc

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Feb 2, 2018
304
197
Looking forward to see how this build develops!

In the meantime, may I ask a couple questions:-
1) how you come to decide on using the NH-D9L? What other coolers have you considered?
2) Which aftermarket case feet have you ordered?

Maybe you can show some pics of your current Air 540 to show where you came from.
This should keep us the fans of pics quiet for a while.:)

1. It would be Noctua cooler definitely (biased I know), the question was between the tower and the blow down. As others have said and I do agree (still in theory only but will find out soon enough) the tower type gives a better chance of getting hot air out of the case and not interfering with the Mobo and the already hot GPU area.
2. Got the ones from mnpctech: https://mnpctech.com/#/product/923

The 540 isn’t with me anymore, I have only a couple pics of it (lousy old phone pics) and one is in my avatar. But here you go: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AiVYU5p_9V5Pk2iOVzYOUv6Bg739
 

MultiDoc

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Feb 2, 2018
304
197
Small update:

Over the past month I have been ordering and gathering parts while also spending hours reading and researching. By Sunday I'll have everything at hand to start the build, but unfortunately the case itself is still missing :( (Ncase build with no case eh?...)
So most probably I'll test-build/plug everything this Sunday to make sure nothing is DOA before the deadline and then wait for the case (I'm particularly eager to check that the monitor is a keeper or not, and I only have 7 days to ask for a replacement).

I'll keep this updated in the coming days.
 

MultiDoc

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Feb 2, 2018
304
197
Finally got a tracking number for the case today. It appears it has arrived and it is going through the (dreadful) customs for import duty/tax calculation...

So... I started a bit to get things going so next weekend (fingers crossed that the case will be here by then) I can go all in and make it.

Started with preparing the M.2 drive so it has the best possible cooling. Added thermal pads on both top and bottom aluminium heatsinks.





Since there isn't much to do until the case arrives, next up will be sourcing an acrylic or similar custom cut to size sheet in case i decide to mod the side panel and put a window on it. Already called a few shops near me but all of them said that the minimum thickness for tempered glass they do is 4mm. But that will be too heavy and thick for my application, therefore acrylic it is (can get it at 2mm, hopefully tinted too).

TBC
 
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tinyitx

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 25, 2018
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Of the entire system, I think the case is the top component that I am most excited to get my hands on. It offers a wider territory to explore than a new CPU or motherboard can.

Anyway, may I ask, what thickness of the Thermal Grizzly thermal pad are you using? I wait for your report of the SSD temp.
Also, I am interested to see the thermal performance of the GPU when the 2 bottom case fans are exhausting (vs intaking....maybe you can do a quick comparison between these 2 setups?).
 
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MultiDoc

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Feb 2, 2018
304
197
Of the entire system, I think the case is the top component that I am most excited to get my hands on. It offers a wider territory to plore than a new CPU or motherboard can.

It is indeed, eagerly waiting for it.

Anyway, may I ask, what thickness of the Thermal Grizzly thermal pad are you using? I wait for your report of the SSD temp.

For the top part of the heatsink I used two pieces, one 2mm and one 1.5mm. For the bottom only one 1.5mm since the SSD when screwed down sits at a downward angle.

Also, I am interested to see the thermal performance of the GPU when the 2 bottom case fans are exhausting (vs intaking....maybe you can do a quick comparison between these 2 setups?).

That's what I'll do, will start with stock/intake and then will switch to exhaust. Will let you know the differences in thermal performance of course.
 
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MultiDoc

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Feb 2, 2018
304
197
Update:
Finally everything has arrived, ironically the case was the last missing piece. So tonight after work the build is starting. Hope to have everything ready within a few hours.
Will take pics along the way. Fingers crossed everything goes well.
 

MultiDoc

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Feb 2, 2018
304
197
Sorry for the late post, finished the build last Sunday. I really enjoyed it. The Ncase M1 was everything I expected and even better than what I thought.
Coming from a full tower background, building on a case like this takes some serious research before hand and also planning ahead when starting installing parts.
Everything worked out great, and I really am happy with the result.

For the time being it will remain as is, but will revise cooling and airflow soon enough. Currently when running benchmarks the CPU tops out at 79C and the GPU at 75C while remaining practically silent (you do notice the sound but it’s not an unpleasant one and definitely not disturbing at all). In real world gaming though, it remains completely unnoticed.

Last note, as you see I added a fan on the left side panel, that has helped keeping the temps at bay and in return keeping the fans at lower rpm and therefore more quiet. The GPU fans are set to max out at 50% rpm only and the cpu fans max out at 70%

Hope you like it and looking forward to your comments and advice.

Pics are here:
 

rfarmer

Spatial Philosopher
Jul 7, 2017
2,601
2,717
Looks good, but is there a reason you aren't using the included fan filter that attaches to the fan bracket?
 

tinyitx

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 25, 2018
2,279
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Looking good!

1. The NH-D9L rear fan is raised to avoid hitting the I/O of the motherboard, right? If so, any reason of not installing that fan in the front as intake? I imagine this might give better temp. Also, the fan will have to be raised too to avoid hitting the RAM.

2. Temp of the M.2 960 Pro?

3. What are the length of your PSU cables (24-pin ATX, 8-pin EPS and 8-pin PCIe)?
They are custom cables, right?
 

MultiDoc

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Feb 2, 2018
304
197
Looks good, but is there a reason you aren't using the included fan filter that attaches to the fan bracket?

For the time being I have installed the fan directly onto the side panel using the silicone things (what's the name for these ?) from Noctua. Reason I did it this way is that I'm not certain yet about the fans' function there and wanted to try and see if the temps are better or worse with the fan there as intake. The fan bracket requires to be bolted on the chassis, but when I'll finalize it I will indeed be using the fan bracket. Until of course the window side panel arrives and then I'll need to mod it (drill 4 holes really) to add attaching points for the fan.

Looking good!

1. The NH-D9L rear fan is raised to avoid hitting the I/O of the motherboard, right? If so, any reason of not installing that fan in the front as intake? I imagine this might give better temp. Also, the fan will have to be raised too to avoid hitting the RAM.

Indeed, the fasn needed to be raised to clear the motherboards' rear heatsink. Haven't thought about putting it in the front though, do you think it would make a difference ? They are exhausting towards the back as they are, should I put the rear fan in the front then ?

2. Temp of the M.2 960 Pro?

That's something that I'm not happy with really and despite taking steps to lower them (as you saw I have used some good thermal pads on the inside of that heatsink in addition to the tiny one that came stock with the motherboard) the 960 Pro is still operating between 50 and 60C, and when pushed it goes into the high 60ies.

Any ideas ? What's the temp limit I shouldn't exceed for it ?

3. What are the length of your PSU cables (24-pin ATX, 8-pin EPS and 8-pin PCIe)?
They are custom cables, right?

Ideally I'd like to have true custom length cables, but for now I got the Corsair sleeved cables that are sold as an upgrade kit for the SF600 directly from Corsair. Link: http://www.corsair.com/en-gb/sf-series-premium-individually-sleeved-psu-cable-kit-black

Lengths are:

24pin: 30cm
EPS/ATX: 40cm
PCIe: 40cm
SATA: 45cm

They are quite longer than ideal, but far better than the stock ones that came with the SF600. All of them will need shortening and the SATA one will need to have only 2 connectors instead of the 4 it comes with now. But this is the last bit to be done.

Now there are a few things remaining to call this build finished:

- expecting a Panasonic UJ265 ODD to arrive (which is hard as hell to find)
- top panel with ODD slot when it will be available from Ncase
- side window panel
- shorter custom cables
- hopefully some solution to improve the NVMe's temps

Edit:
Currently when benching the CPU maxes out at 79C and the GPU at 75C with no throttling and while remaining silent. Please do suggest ideas to improve this if possible.

And forgot to mention that I also added a second SSD for storage, a 2TB Samsung 860 Evo, installed on the inside of the front of the case just behind where the odd is supposed to go.
 
Last edited:

tinyitx

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 25, 2018
2,279
2,338
1. I would definitely try moving the NH-D9L rear fan to the front position. Airflow direction is unchanged, exhausting air to the rear of the case. Also, as you are happy with the noise level, I would also suggest you play with the CPU fan curve to speed up the 2 fans more to find the max speed (to give lower temp) that the associated noise is acceptable.

2. Guru3D says 960 Pro will throttle at around 75C. So, load temp between 50-60C is OK. To improve, I think you will somehow introduce some kind of airflow over the SSD but I see an intake fan on the side panel already.
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/samsung-960-pro-m-2-1tb-nvme-ssd-review,7.html

Good reading here:-
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...s-950-Pro-Performance-Thermal-Throttling-868/
 

MultiDoc

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Feb 2, 2018
304
197
Small update:

1. I'll be swapping the fans on the CPU cooler as @tinyitx suggested, move the rear fan to the front just above the RAM.

2. After running several times the Heaven and the Superposition benchmarks, I found out that for some reason the GPU fans of the stock ASUS Strix cooler max out at 50% of rpm (as reported by GPU-Z). Tried everything but couldn't make them spin faster than 50%. However this is both good and bad, the good thing is that they remain relatively silent and during normal use they don't bother at all, the bad part is that in extreme situations (i.e: benching) I could use some more cooling capability.

Depending on how things turn out, I have two more changes in mind:

First will try removing the stock Asus cooler fan shroud from the GPU and install 2x120mm fans on the bottom as exhaust. I know before hand that this is supposedly the best way to get the most out of such a setup as mine (reading other people's builds). And secondly I might even try a 3rd fan on the CPU cooler. I know it's not ideal and the gains in temps are very small, but i hope i can push the CPU temps lower a bit more while maintaining relatively slow rpms for all 3 fans and overall noise as is now.

Will disassemble and try tonight, will update with results soon.
 

rfarmer

Spatial Philosopher
Jul 7, 2017
2,601
2,717
Use MSI Afterburner and set a custom fan curve, you can take the fans all the way to 100% if you want.
 

tinyitx

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 25, 2018
2,279
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If you are going to add a 3rd fan, I suggest trying to attach it to the case rear fan opening. At such location, I think it is able to draw, not only the Noctua cooler's exhaust out of the case, but it also might create a draft to draw some of the GPU exhaust out of the case as well. This might be a good secondary benefit. Try and let us know.

The 50% speed limit might be (my guess) due to the default fan speed curve. If Afterburner does not fix it, might try to uninstall and do a complete clean install of the Nvidia driver.
 

MultiDoc

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Feb 2, 2018
304
197
Finished the changes last night.

Removed the stock fans and shroud from the GPU, installed 2x120mm fans on the bottom as exhaust, rerouted a few cables, installed a temp sensor (on the motherboards header that I stuck currently on the NVMe heatsink and also prepared the CPU cooler for the 3rd fan installation as soon as the fan clip arrives.

Immediately the difference is noticeable and so much improved! Temps are better and more importantly at even less noise (silent when not benchmarking), and even when stressed the noise is much more pleasant and in normal conditions (not a silent room i mean) unnoticeable. Now I can run an OC profile for the GPU and getting less noise and a couple degrees Celsius less in max temps.

I also removed the side fan that I had previously as intake on the left side panel (in preparation for the window panel). I will upload a few pics later on.

The only trouble I run into is that I initially wired and plugged the bottom fans on the GPU's fan header that used to drive the stock shroud's fans, but the fans wouldn't work or spin up at all. Then I tried the extra fan headers that the Strix GPU has and again I couldn't control the fans as good as i would have liked and therefore i ended up plugging them in (via a 2in1pwm fan spliter cable) on the motherboards chassis fan header (I configured the fans via the Asus fan expert utility).
Thanks for your input and suggestions. I'll be fine-tuning things a bit more and hopefully finalize the settings soon, but even so far things are greatly improved.
 
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MultiDoc

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Feb 2, 2018
304
197
Being a noob in imgur and the way it works I haven't been able to upload pics of the final build as it is now.

I did some gaming and benchmarking last night, max temp for the CPU was 77C (benching) and for the GPU 78C (again benching). I have configure custom fan profiles for both via the Asus Fan Expert. In normal stressful scenario like playing very demanding games etc the case is virtually silent and I only notice what's going on because of the warm air I feel on my hand (my mouse while using it is near the case; but that's not a problem at all.

All in all I'm happy how things are currently, I expect the third Noctua clips to arrive so i can put the extra fan on and also the windowed side panel when it arrives. As a side note, these plastic clips that hold the panels in place are very very fragile and easy to brake, had one brake on me yesterday; it's good I'm kinda OCD and I had already ordered a set of them to keep as extra.

I'll try to figure out imgur and update with pics.
 

tinyitx

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 25, 2018
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2,338
As a side note, these plastic clips that hold the panels in place are very very fragile and easy to brake, had one brake on me yesterday; it's good I'm kinda OCD and I had already ordered a set of them to keep as extra.

As I do not have an M1 physically in front of me, would you please explain more of the above experience?
What do you mean the 'plastic clips' being very fragile and easy to break?
I imagine, the panels are held in place by some kind of push-pins. Do you mean, those clips that receive and hold the push-pins in place? I have read a number of posts of the M1 and this is the first time I read about this issue. More description of this situation please.
BTW, what is 'OCD'?