Discussion Move PSU and GPU outside of the case ?

mjerrett

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
Dec 28, 2020
6
3
Hi, I have an HP Compaq pro 6300 SFF with 16 gb ddr3, i7 3770 quad core and ssd running win 10 pro 64 bit. This is my sons pc and it has been good for minecraft, but he is moving onto other games like fortnite and god of war and he has to play on lowest settings. So the integrated graphics are not cutting it. I don’t want to go low profile 1030 which would fit on the one available pci 16 slot as that is not a great card. I was looking at a low profile 1050ti, but am concerned the motherboard may not adequately power it. So this is what I am thinking, but being a novice would like some input. I would like to use a riser as an extension cable to move the gpu outside of the case, and use a multiple power supply adapter (add2psu) to add a second modular psu and power the gpu from that. I can get a used 750 watt modular supply for 100 bucks. Basically I would build a small case to house the second psu and gpu, I figure this would also enable me to run a full sized gpu as well and give me more options. Basically this would be an egpu for a desktop. If this would work and be safe I figure I would have a psu and gpu for a future build when my son wants to upgrade. I realize getting a different pc would be ideal, but I don’t have the budget to upgrade him and this pc works quite well.

Any thoughts as to whether this makes sense, thanks.

Mike
 

scatterforce

Master of Cramming
May 21, 2018
408
325
So first, this is the best single slot low profile card in existence at the moment, but it costs more than it should.

Instead of making it complicated, I would use something like this, a riser cable powered by Molex. Then, slap a full sized 1650 in there for MSRP, rotate it, and feed the cables through an open slot in the back. Your total power draw will still be within the rating on you PSU (240 watt).

Now, good luck in finding a GPU at all. I figured I'd look before posting this, and I can't find single 1650 variant in stock for less than $220. That's a crazy stupid price.
 
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REVOCCASES

Shrink Ray Wielder
REVOCCASES
Silver Supporter
Apr 2, 2020
2,057
3,331
www.revoccases.com
Probably your 6300 SFF came with a 240W Power Supply which is definitely enough for your planned setup. I had a similar setup running with a 200W PSU for years.
  • i7 3770 needs about 75 to 80W max
  • GTX1650 or 1050Ti needs about 65 to 75W
Makes total 155W peak for GPU and CPU and still leaves 85W for motherboard, fans, etc...

Here I also found someone running a 1050Ti in his 6300SFF



your eGPU idea is very interesting but since you said your budget is limited, maybe a mid-spec second hand PC would be overall cheaper.
 

Bubba

Average Stuffer
Nov 4, 2019
63
24
smallformfactor.net
The hardware/case/cables for an external gpu can be expensive.
Building a SFF PC with everything inside is generally cheaper and might perform better, than an eGPU.

If I were you, this is what I would:
(1) Use inspectre to disable meltdown/spectre protection to boost fps in games
(2) Remove the side panel or alternatively, cut out a hole or slot in the side
(3) Buy a 1650 Super. Get a molex --> 6-pin adapter or sata power --> 6-pin adapter
(4) Install the gpu like this (or without the side panel)


youtu.be/TsWUxgEaro4?t=118

I currently run my 1660 Ti with the power limit at 85% in Afterburner.
If I increase the power limit to 108%, the core clock increases only about 5% in games. (2000 MHz --> 2100 MHz)
I lowered the power limit, not because my 250W PSU was not strong enough,
but because it runs cooler and the fan runs quieter at 85% power limit.
If you are worried about having enough power, just lower the power limit a little in afterburner.
You won't lose much fps. Modern graphics cards are usually more limited by memory bandwidth than by core clock.
 

mjerrett

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
Dec 28, 2020
6
3
Thank you to everyone for the input, I appreciate it. I really liked the Asi card recommended by scatterforce, but can't reasonably get my hands on one in Canada. Also, when I looked at the specs on my motherboard HP states the CPIe x16 slot is only rated for 25 watts. This concerns me, I know that people are running 1050ti in those slots which draw up to 75 watts, so the 25 watt limit must be a suggestion. However, as my son, and not I will use this I am concerned with creating an electrical hazard for him. So this is what I plan to do(you might think I am creating a larger hazard). Rather than overpaying for a low profile 1660 or 1050ti card which are not in stock anywhere close to me anyway, I will use a $20 adapter from amazon to hook up an atx psu to my proprietary motherboard. I got a nice modular 600 watt version for 80 bucks on Amazon with built in led lighting. I spent another 30 bucks on extension cables so I can place it outside of the case if need be. I did consider powering a GPU from sata connections, nut did not find anyone doing that, so thought it might be risky. So at this point I am spending some cash, but figure we will likely build a gaming rig when he is older and could use this psu again. So I am into new power for about 140 bucks tax in--hopefully it pans out.

Next I need to choose a gpu. If the psu is outside of the case I will have lots of options to mount inside, or I might place that outside too--or modify the case as bubba showed. I plan to get a full sized gpu so I can plug it into the new psu rather than drawing all power from the motherboard. I figure at least then we could wait until there is new stock of GPU's so we don't get hosed on price and if we did another build in the future we could use this gpu. I would use a riser to relocate the gpu.

So, any thoughts or concerns about this plan? I appreciate any insights.

Mike
 

mjerrett

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
Dec 28, 2020
6
3
The hardware/case/cables for an external gpu can be expensive.
Building a SFF PC with everything inside is generally cheaper and might perform better, than an eGPU.

If I were you, this is what I would:
(1) Use inspectre to disable meltdown/spectre protection to boost fps in games
(2) Remove the side panel or alternatively, cut out a hole or slot in the side
(3) Buy a 1650 Super. Get a molex --> 6-pin adapter or sata power --> 6-pin adapter
(4) Install the gpu like this (or without the side panel)


youtu.be/TsWUxgEaro4?t=118

I currently run my 1660 Ti with the power limit at 85% in Afterburner.
If I increase the power limit to 108%, the core clock increases only about 5% in games. (2000 MHz --> 2100 MHz)
I lowered the power limit, not because my 250W PSU was not strong enough,
but because it runs cooler and the fan runs quieter at 85% power limit.
If you are worried about having enough power, just lower the power limit a little in afterburner.
You won't lose much fps. Modern graphics cards are usually more limited by memory bandwidth than by core clock.
Hi, when you said you hooked up to sata did you mean you are powering your gpu using a 6pin to sata adapter that you hook up to an existing SATA connector from your motherboard? I have no options to hook up to my psu, and only can get power from my motherboard.
 

Bubba

Average Stuffer
Nov 4, 2019
63
24
smallformfactor.net
This is sata power to 6 pin adapter

amazon.com/Cable-Matters-2-Pack-PCIe-Power/dp/B01DV1Z5S6/

and also this

amazon.com/Cable-Matters-2-Pack-SATA-Power/dp/B01DV1Z1ZI

If you get a card with a 6-pin or 8-pin power connector, then it will not pull all power through the x16 slot.

For example, a 1650 super (at 100Watts) can pull 50 watts through 6 pin and 50 watts through the x16 slot.
If the power limit in Afterburner is lowered to 80%, then 40 watts through the 6 pin and 40 watts through the x16 slot.

If you get a graphics card without a power connector, then all power comes through the x16 slot.
I believe there are some 1050 Ti with power connectors but not all.

There is also the AMD 5500 XT but it only has 8 pci-e lanes, which means pci-e 3.0 x8 on your motherboard.
Some gpu have 6 -pin power connectors and some have 8-pin power connectors.
 

mjerrett

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
Dec 28, 2020
6
3
Just an update, I used this adapter to hook up an atx sized psu (). This adapter worked fine for my hp 6300 pro sff, with no fan error message that I have heard some people encounter with other adapters.

The psu is behind the case with the cables going through where the old psu was.



 

timginter

Cable-Tie Ninja
Apr 21, 2019
197
80
Building a SFF PC with everything inside is generally cheaper and might perform better, than an eGPU.
I wouldn't agree with performing better, it's more about the use case (and the amount of faff you want to go through). I've been running laptops with eGPUs for the past 5 years and an eGPU on the desk is basically my docking station:

There is up to 5% loss due to M.2 on a laptop (even though it's 4 lanes), but performance is not affected otherwise. The rule of thumb is to stay below 60cm of total cable length, ideally max 50cm.

I will be looking for something similar for my new build in the next 2-3 months, but for PCIe instead of M.2, so probably 50cm ADT-Link R23SG PCIe x16 to x4 eGPU Adapter connected to a short custom length ADT-Link R32SF PCI express 3.0 x16 to x4 Extension Cable from motherboard to the edge of chassis.

My use case is a mobile SFF build with an APU + eGPU, though, @mjerrett you might be just better of taking the side panels off or buying a bigger case second hand and trying to move the hardware. If you're planning on a gaming rig some time in the future, a PSU and GPU you can reuse later will also make more sense than 2x smaller PSUs and a more expensive SFF GPU.
 

mjerrett

Efficiency Noob
Original poster
Dec 28, 2020
6
3
I wouldn't agree with performing better, it's more about the use case (and the amount of faff you want to go through). I've been running laptops with eGPUs for the past 5 years and an eGPU on the desk is basically my docking station:

There is up to 5% loss due to M.2 on a laptop (even though it's 4 lanes), but performance is not affected otherwise. The rule of thumb is to stay below 60cm of total cable length, ideally max 50cm.

I will be looking for something similar for my new build in the next 2-3 months, but for PCIe instead of M.2, so probably 50cm ADT-Link R23SG PCIe x16 to x4 eGPU Adapter connected to a short custom length ADT-Link R32SF PCI express 3.0 x16 to x4 Extension Cable from motherboard to the edge of chassis.

My use case is a mobile SFF build with an APU + eGPU, though, @mjerrett you might be just better of taking the side panels off or buying a bigger case second hand and trying to move the hardware. If you're planning on a gaming rig some time in the future, a PSU and GPU you can reuse later will also make more sense than 2x smaller PSUs and a more expensive SFF GPU.
Thank you for your insights, I am going to have to wait and see how large the gpu is when I get one, no stock anywhere around here, and I am thinking a gtx 1660 super. If it fits in the case with a small riser now that the psu is gone I'll go that route, otherwise I'll need a longer riser and plan to mount it on top of the case. I want to avoid a bigger case at this point as even with the psu outside, the system takes up very little room.
 
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timginter

Cable-Tie Ninja
Apr 21, 2019
197
80
Thank you for your insights, I am going to have to wait and see how large the gpu is when I get one, no stock anywhere around here, and I am thinking a gtx 1660 super. If it fits in the case with a small riser now that the psu is gone I'll go that route, otherwise I'll need a longer riser and plan to mount it on top of the case. I want to avoid a bigger case at this point as even with the psu outside, the system takes up very little room.
Nice, that should work really well, a x16 to x16 raiser and everything powered from 1 PSU.

If you have a separate PSU for the graphics card, you may need something like the R23SG board and extension I posted above, otherwise the PSU may always deliver power to the GPU and the fans may spin at constant 100% when the PC is off
 

timginter

Cable-Tie Ninja
Apr 21, 2019
197
80
@mjerrett , I think constant power to GPU will not keep the fans at 100% all the time when the PC is off. They do if I plug the GPU into a eGPU adapter and switch constant power on, but I was just testing a new PC and GPU fans stayed off when the PC was not powered on with the GPU plugged into my motherboard and a separate power supply for the GPU (200W main PSU couldn't handle mobo, CPU and GPU at the same time).

The GPU fans spin up only when I start the PC, even though the GPU has constant power from the second PSU. I am connecting it through an eGPU adapter (with constant power switched on), though, so not sure that makes a difference. I'll test the DELL DA-2 plugged in directly to the GPU, without the eGPU adapter in the middle, when I get an adapter
 

timginter

Cable-Tie Ninja
Apr 21, 2019
197
80
@mjerrett , sorry for the wrong info earlier - GPU fans do not spin at 100% if constant power is connected to the GPU with a separate power supply and with the computer turned off.

I connected my Dell DA-2 12V PSU directly to my GPU as per this post by nando4 - GPU fans did not spin when the computer was off. When I turned the rig on all worked OK, no issues:
 

Apache23

Cable Smoosher
Dec 31, 2021
9
0
Just an update, I used this adapter to hook up an atx sized psu (). This adapter worked fine for my hp 6300 pro sff, with no fan error message that I have heard some people encounter with other adapters.

The psu is behind the case with the cables going through where the old psu was.
Did you have to change any wires on the P2 connector. I have a 6300 Pro SFF also and have tried it with the wires as they are in the picture and won't post.