Log mATX SFF research + prep work (Mesh-mATX)

hrh_ginsterbusch

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So, my future first SFF system is going to be an mATX SFF system. Mostly, because the goal is to have a portable workstation, so a bit more RAM (esp. with the current pricing situation with DDR5) and more PCIe slots might come in handy, but also, because of the unfortunate issues with AIO liquid cooling and the placement / direction of the tubes on ITX boards. And thirdly, because its also a bit of a challenge :)

.. and I like challenges.

My ORIGINAL plan was to use the NR200P in Sunset Orange with additional mATX brackets, but NOW, in early April 2022, I've changed gears, and decided to go even further down the semi-custom road, and persue a "Mesh-mATX" (MeshiMatx? Meshematx? "Meshem-atecs" .. something along these lines). Kind of like a v2.0 or v1.5 variant of this concept.

For more context, see the reddit posts: MeshATX : Transforms the Meshlicious ITX case into the smallest ATX case - SonGay Custom

Current plans (2022-07-18):

Case: SSUPD Meshlicious in black, with all mesh panels.

Mainboard:

a) DDR 4 version: MSI MAG B660M Mortar Wifi - most reasonable priced, and also (sadly) the only mATX Mortar option available.
Both the Z690 and the B660 (no matter which RAM type) share the same VRM, so not much is lost. I want Z690 mostly out of UV reasons, anyway. OC is NOT the game here :D

b) DDR 5 version: MSI MAG Z690M Mortar Wifi - the DDR5 prices are down to something more reasonable, but also: The Gigabyte ITX / mATX boards seem to suffer from various issues, including very limited CPU cooling support, but also overheating issues, etc. Essentially not worth the saved moneys over DDR5 boards.

RAM: 32 GB for starters (DDR5 CL 36 seems to reasonable available by now)

CPU: Intel i7-12700k

CPU Cooling: AIO, either Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 A-RGB or Be Quiet Silent Loop II 280. But the Arctic should fit, albeit a bit tight. Might switch the fans out with the SilverStone Air Penetrator 140i ARGB, the Be Quiet Light Wings or maybe even the Noctua NF14 IndustrialPPC. I'd like to stick to RGB, but a bit more classy than just your regular rainbow unicorn vomit.

PSU: Sticking to the Corsair SF 750 SFX; measurings and test fits with cardboard dummies showed, that there should be at least 5 mm distance even with the PSU located inside the case (vs. my "1 - 2 cm" outbound location on the GPU + Radiator side). The radiator of the Liquid Freezer II is only 138 mm wide (see Specs Sheet at the Arctic website), vs. the usual 140 + something of others.

Second option would be to go with the original Mesh-ATX / Meshlicious method, ie. placing the PSU on the mainboard side, but with one particular change: Placing the PSU on the OTHER side, ie. right below the RAM banks etc. So it wont block the extension slots.

I even came up with a third, experimental version, which would require to replace the mainboard tray with a custom one, with a custom opening on its bottom half, that allows the PSU to be placed right below the mainboard, similar to how its done in the Densium 4 (plus) case; although, of corpse, it'd be a SFX and not a Flex ATX unit.

GPU: RTX 3060 Ti or 3070, maybe Founders Edition, but essentially anything very short, not larger than 2.5 slots.
Original plan is to place it on the mainboard side, with a PCIe 4 riser cable. But with the second choice detailed above, the original approach of GPU on the other side should work, too - although we'd have to watch out for the width not becoming an issue.

According to the NVidia website, both the 3070 as well as the 3070 Ti FE are only 112 mm wide, so perfect for our purposes (aside of the fact that they're also very short; the regular 3070 FE might even fit at the mainboard side, with a bit of adaption of the former PSU opening).

VRM cooling: When using the Arctic Liquid Freezer II, its automagically taken care of. Else, a 40 or 60 mm fan positioned above the VRM should do.

Case modifications: As a potential weight reduction option, I am planning to either replace the mesh steel panels with similar ones made out of aluminium, or maybe even with custom 3D printed ones. A nice method to cheap-skate on the radiator bracket might be to "abuse" the solid steel panel and just add a nice fat cutout into it. Secure the panel with screws instead of the original Lian Li pins, and depending on where the fans are located, add a dust filter on top.

Also, the original Mesh ATX calls for a slightly thicker side panel (where normally the radiator would be placed), which I might extend by 1 - 2 cm instead, eg. for better cable routing, SSD locations etc. This would enlarge the volume to approx 16 - 16.5 L.

Right now, April 9th, 2022, the Meshlicious in black, with all mesh panels and PCIe 3 riser has been ordered, and should arrive at the 11th (ie. Monday).

Aside of that, the plans are now as follows:

Mainboard: Going with the Gigabyte Z690M Aorus Elite AX DDR4, because it seems to be the most reasonable one. The Asus Prime Z690M-D4 just looks so bad in terms of VRM load (the manual / specs just mention 10 + 1 + 1, probably 50A, but nothing else), and the Gigabyte seems to use almost the same setup as the MSI B660 / Z690 mATX boards. Yes, less extension ports, but if push comes to shove, and a PCIe 1x is required, one can still pick a nice NGFF-to-PCIe adapter and incorporate that.

Although, if I cannot solve the AIO compatibility issue (see latest post in this thread), I might have to switch back to the Asus Prime, or even the MSI Mortar (which is a DDR5 board, which all the issues attached, esp. RAM cost).

RAM: Sticking to 64 GB DDR 4 , 3600 XMP. I'm permanently clocking out 11 GB during regular work, and plans go towards running a VM for streaming (OBS / Audio / VJing), which should have enough RAM, too.

Case: As already mentioned, its the Meshlicious in black with all mesh panels, PCIe 3.0 riser. For a future GPU (probably RTX 2060 or 3060), I need to purchase a proper PCIe 4.0 riser anyway. There will be a few small case modifications, most prominently, the cutout on one side of the upper case beam, to settle the mainboard properly into the case.

Case weight notices: Without side panels, the case only weights about 1.5 kg, but with side panels attached, its roughly 3.7 kg.
Correction: Its only 3.3 kg! See my post about the weight check below.
Maybe replacing at least some of those with something more light weight (but with similar "air flow" specs) might be worth the effort.

PSU: Will be positioned on the "GPU" side of the Meshlicious. Also, switching back to the Corsair SF 750, although I'm also pondering about a TFX or FlexATX, because of size restraints (not wanting to bond with the radiator too much). As soon as the case is there, I'm planning to do excessive cardboard mockups, to see if the PSU would be too "touchy" with the radiator, or if its a neglectable issue.

CPU: 12700k (no changes)

GPU: Intel + Nvidia (no changes), but with the new case, Riser PCIe 4.0, and "ITX appropriate" length; something along the lines of a RTX 2060 or 3060. Positioned on the "CPU" side, in the place where normally the PSU would reside.

Storage: Pre-existing FireCuda 510, maybe add another 520 or 530 to act as addition. Probably going with a 2 TB SATA Raid, too.

CPU Cooling, Revision #2 ( as of April 12th, 2022):
The case is here, and reality has settled in; mockups and pre-calculation can only go that far. So: a 280 mm is not gonna fit. Or more like, its going to fit waaay too snug = 140 mm radiator width + 100 mm PSU width = 240 mm = THE WIDTH OF THE CASE. 😅

Hence, the revised options look like this

a) Semi-open AIO: Alphacool Aurora Pro 240, etc.
b) Regular AIO: any decent 240 mm, eg. Arctic Freezer II or be!quiet Silent Loop. Although the temps might not be that nice.
c) Case Mod: outbound PSU - as seen with eg. the Cooler Master HAF XB Evo; in theory, grinding down a bit of the part what would normally be the opening for the vertical "small" GPU position, would open up to the 64 mm of a SFX PSU.
d) custom loop, eg. 200 mm radiator

VRM cooling: Don't know if all out mesh is enough, so there might be an attempt with a slow running 60 mm fan pushing air over the MB from the side.

CPU cooling: As one can see from the MeshATX original videos / posts, the radiator is positioned on the other side, where normally the GPU would sit. I'm going to try "classic" AIO first, and if that does not work out as expected, Iit's obviously down the custom loop road.

a) AIO: Arctic Freezer II 280 should be doable, esp. with an mATX board. Mostly because of the superb performance, although I might have to remove the VRM heatsink; other option would be the be!quiet Silent Loop 2 280mm, and replace the default fans with Arctic P14 / P140 Bionix.
b) Semi custom loop: If Freezer II or Silent Loop 2 fail, the third option for an AIO would be the Alphacool Eisbaer Pro Aurora 280. Tubing length should be decent / similar to the "normal" AIOs.
c) Custom loop: Alphacool 280 mm radiator, maybe also Alphacool cooler / pump combo, soft tubes, Arctic P14 / P140 Bionix fans. It'd be my first custom loop, so I want to go slow :)

Radiator bracket: Multiple choices available. Either find a nice 280 STL, dig out one on the interwebs (Amazon, Ebay) and adapt it, "borrow" it from another case (eg. Core 500) - or the brutal way: Build one myself from fine paper-thin steel :)

My current plan is to use the NR200P (if possible, in "sunset orange") with additional mATX brackets (there are 3D print templates for that, but might also make them myself using steel or aluminium plate) and the power supply bracket set in the front position.

For those who it may concern, there is a page in my own wiki listing some of the research of suitable cases for mATX SFF. Its written in German, because I put it together for my best friend, whose understanding of the english language is not that good, but most of it should still be pretty self-explaining :)

NR200P is going to be ordered in a bit, and then the prep work is mostly going to be mocking up things, esp. radiator / liquid cooling in regards of what may or may not fit. For "the real deal", ie. setting up the mATX board, I've got an old mATX intel board (Sandy Bridge) sitting around, so I can do actual tests and not have to rely on mockup templates.

System-wise, its going to be along the lines of roughly the following specs:

CPU: i7 12700k - the 12900k seems to be way too much of a challenge, cooling-wise

RAM: 32 GB DDR5 or 64 GB DDR4

Board with DDR5: its probably going to be either the MSI MAG Z690M Mortar Wifi, or the Asus ROG Strix B660-G Gaming Wifi

Board with DDR4: the Asus Prime Z690M-D4, as this one seems to be the most versatile currently available in Germany, because of the amount of extension slots, ie. both a PCIe 5 x16 and also a PCIe 4 x16, which may come in handy if I ever decide to run two different GPUs (eg. small consumer AMDGPU + workstation NVidia GPU), Thunderbolt, and more; VRM is lower-tier, but acc. to the spec overview its still 10 + 1 (50A).

Update: OR the MSI MAG B660M Mortar WIFI DDR4 - read & seen a few tests of "more budget-oriented boards", and the MSI B660 has shown to perform extremely solid. Not 100% happy with the placement of the extension slots, but aside of that, it has got everything I'm expecting from a well-built mATX board, including nicer looking heatsinks, so in theory, AIO / Custom Loop shouldnt have too many issues.

CPU cooling: Either AIO, maybe Arctic Freezer II 280 or be!quiet Silent Loop, or an open AIO like the Alphacool Aurora 240 or 280

GPU: Intel + NVidia; originally wanted to go with AMDGPU only, but those plans aimed for an AMD-only system, so the GPU would have been a neccessity (and AMDGPU is much more reliable under Linux than NVidia) - but I've scraped that in favor for going with the latest Intel; with iGPU, the nastier issues with NVidia should be avoidable (I'd need it only for streaming / video rendering, and very VERY rarely, playing a game, so, once in a blue moon)

Storage: I got a few pre-existing SSDs plus a FireCuda 510 1 TB NVMe, which is gonna stay as my main system disk, although I might switch back to MX Linux, cause (K)Ubuntu offers quite a few annoyances that tick me off on a daily base. Dedoimedo recently wrote a raving review of MX Linux MX-21 KDE, so that might be a good option for a "glorious" return.

PSU: Going with the Cooler Master V-Series V850 SFX Gold, over the very classic SF750

DDR4 vs. DDR5 depends on whether 32 GB is enough for now, or if I indeed need 64 GB RAM. My current system only has got 16 GB, which I gonna change soon (probably next week), because with just a bit more work-intense loads, I've already managed to max out my system quite a few times (read: web developer / frontend designer with lots of backend / database work, but also extensive JS development, which easily may chew up lots of system resources).

cu, w0lf.
 
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Arboreal

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Good stuff there @hrh_ginsterbusch. Thanks for sharing your mATX adventures. I'm always keen to see mATX boards crammed into ITX cases.
Sadly, mATX has definitely dropped out of favour with not many decent boards available in that size these days.
I have been tinkering with the DIY Big560 from @REVOCCASES, which just scrapes in under 20L.
It's essentially meant for 2x 280 rads and watercooling ITX, but I have a B450M test build in mine, which is going slowly as I have had to lend kit out to friends with hardware problems over the last few months.

Do post what you get up to, I like the idea of an orange NR200 build for a change
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

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Do post what you get up to, I like the idea of an orange NR200 build for a change
I originally thought of going for the Sakura (not available anymore) or for the purple version, but having watched a few builds with it on YT and dug through a heap of reddit posts, IRL it doesnt look that nice as excepted. While with the orange, that definitely shines. Also pondering, that it might look even better with white elements, so maybe I'm gonna get a second NR200P in white to act as kind of a donor case :)

cu, w0lf.
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

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Although I'd really like to go the Z690 way - for mATX + DDR4 there seems to be next to nothing usable out there.
Might really have to go for the MSI MAG B660M Mortar WIFI DDR4 - tests show its being the most robust so far (among others, Hardware Unboxed did a lot of VRM thermal tests). The Prime Z690 VRM is certainly much lower tier than the one of the MSI board. Would probably need additional cooling for that, which might turn out tricky in a sub-20L case.

On another note: The other way would be ATX inside a mITX / DTX case, like with the MeshATX. In theory, the 200p could support ATX, but probably way more hacky than just cutting out a bit of the Meshlicious case frame (MeshATX mod).

cu, w0lf.
 

Neathdrawls

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Would be interesting to see what mods you would do to the NR200.

Mechanic Master's C26 and C28 both support mATX motherboards and are smaller than the NR200, if you are interested at looking at them.

Having owned both the C28 and NR200, I prefer the C28 way more now.

But the fun is really all about making it fit too, yeah?
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

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Would be interesting to see what mods you would do to the NR200.

Mechanic Master's C26 and C28 both support mATX motherboards and are smaller than the NR200, if you are interested at looking at them.

Having owned both the C28 and NR200, I prefer the C28 way more now.

But the fun is really all about making it fit too, yeah?
The issue is mostly the availability - I've got a few more on my (mental) list that'd fit mATX more easily, but I don't want to wait half a year till the case arrives (I'm located in Germany). Secondary issue is, that I dont want any case with glass, as it has to be portable. Portable as in carry on / sea bag ;)

And then there is the issue with the color: that orange looks so gooood :D

cu, w0lf.
 

Neathdrawls

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The issue is mostly the availability - I've got a few more on my (mental) list that'd fit mATX more easily, but I don't want to wait half a year till the case arrives (I'm located in Germany). Secondary issue is, that I dont want any case with glass, as it has to be portable. Portable as in carry on / sea bag ;)

And then there is the issue with the color: that orange looks so gooood :D

cu, w0lf.
Cheers mate!

The C26 and C28 have an additional side panel that can be purchased seperatedly as well. I understand not wanting glass, and that's what I do on my C28. Portability, it also comes with a metal handle should you choose to install it as well, while being smaller than the NR200.

Don't get me wrong though, I do like the NR200 too!
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

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The C26 and C28 have an additional side panel that can be purchased seperatedly as well. I understand not wanting glass, and that's what I do on my C28. Portability, it also comes with a metal handle should you choose to install it as well, while being smaller than the NR200.

Interesting. Still, the main issue is availability :)
Obviously one can plan things into perfection aka oblivion, but the important part is the actual realization of work. So, NR200P is the start, a compromise, because of the easy and wide availability, not just of the case, but also 3D prints and modding tutorials / plans.

The future goal is a completely custom case with workstation specs (read: mATX + 12700k + 280 mm radiator / custom loop + nice GPU should fit comfortably), with as less weight as possible, while still maintaining enough rigidity to be portable.

cu, w0lf.
 
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hrh_ginsterbusch

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An update to this: I've found a few more interesting mATX SFF cases, including the Tacens Anima AC5 / AC5500 / AC 6 (the 5500 version is just the same, but with a basic 500W PSU) - those come in at roughly 18.8L of volume, 1.55kg, ATX PSU, mATX / ITX mobo size.

The reviews on Amazon complain about paper-thin side panels, but thats entirely to be expected from a 1.55kg, sub-40 Euro case.
Actually I see that as an advantage: One can do excessive case mods and doesn't have to worry about damaging anything, because you improve the overall build quality when having to replace parts anyway :D

I'm planning to using one or even two of these cases to test out things, eg. panel modifications - although I might even go with one of them, and hack / mod it strongly to my needs instead :)

cu, w0lf.
 

ignsvn

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An update to this: I've found a few more interesting mATX SFF cases, including the Tacens Anima AC5 / AC5500 / AC 6 (the 5500 version is just the same, but with a basic 500W PSU) - those come in at roughly 18.8L of volume, 1.55kg, ATX PSU, mATX / ITX mobo size.

The Tacens Anima AC5 case reminds me to Cooler Master N200 (https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/cases/mini-tower/n200/)

(Years ago, I almost bought the N200 but eventually settled with Silverstone SG08, which kickstarted my SFF journey)
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

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The Tacens Anima AC5 case reminds me to Cooler Master N200 (https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/cases/mini-tower/n200/)

(Years ago, I almost bought the N200 but eventually settled with Silverstone SG08, which kickstarted my SFF journey)
Nice. The N200 (without the R) was actually the first one I looked into, when considering "something smaller and more challenging", about half a year ago or so. Then I stumbled upon the Core 500, and eventually the QB One. And now its mATX SFF. Things turn out strange :D

cu, w0lf.
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

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Now for a little thought experiment (it's actually quite far developed already): After having figured out I need to go down the custom water loop road for an mATX build in the NR200 no matter what, and (re)watching/searching a few other ATX-/mATX-to-ITX mods .. I also watched the MeshATX build videos (#1, #2) for yet another time, I started pondering: Why go for 18 L and 5 kg, if you can have 15 L (14.68 L) and 3.7kg instead?

For recap, the design of the MeshATX has a few disadvantages:
- extra-long riser cable required
- PSU blocking the usage of all the other PCIe ports (which one could solve with another Riser cable, but where to position them next?)
- the still existing issue with the riser cable fusing with the backplate of the GPU

My use case is not the big fat GPU though, a SFF-friendly length would be much more appreciated (anything <= 240 mm).
So, why not place the PSU on the OTHER side, in a classic two-chamber style? And then use a very short riser cable + a custom(ized) bracket to position the GPU at the same position where normally the PSU would sit .. Also, that'd allow us to place a secondary extension card at a different position (using another short riser cbale), or depending on its size, maybe even sitting in the slot itself!

Judging from measurements, it looks like this approach could actually work. And one could still use mATX, as I dont need all that many extension ports either. On the other hand, the MSI Pro Z690-A Wifi looks quite sensible and nice, too.

Also opens up options for adding a separate pump / pump + reservoir vs. the cramped space of the MeshATX original.

Things to ponder about:
a) PSU connection: With the Corsair SF 750, the power socket would sit nearly perfect on the opening for GPU connector, but with any other PSU, we might need to use a short standoff with a power cable extender.

b) Radiator heat vs. PSU: I dont know if its the brightest idea to route the power cables directly side-by-side to the radiator, so maybe putting the PSU on top of the case, with custom brackets etc. might be the better option, and add a 200x200 mm radiator below, eg. the Alphacool NexXxoS XT45 Full Copper 200mm or maybe even a 180 x 180mm radiator (still more surface area than a standard 240 mm radiator).
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

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Update as of April 9th, 2022: Ordered the Meshlicious PCIe 3.0 riser in black yesterday, should arrive on Monday (11th). There was - and still is (site states till April 30th) - a sale going on at Proshop for the PCIe 3 riser version, so I got it for 99 Euro (+ 5 Euro shipping cost) instead of the regular 112 ish Euro.

cu, w0lf.
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

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Meshlicious has arrived. Whatever DPD did during the weekend .. maybe play chess? With DHL or UPS, the case would have been long around. And DPD has the tendency to prefer to drop notes into your letter box instead of actually doing their job. Well, whatever.

Case is here, reality has hit home. I guess my mockups with a 280 mm radiator were a bit too optimistic. Calling this a "snug" fit is waay too nice. 140 mm + 100 mm = 240 mm. Not gonna happen.

Other options include:

a) 240 mm open AIO - Alphacool Aurora Pro 240, with the option to redecorate at some point
b) Full custom loop with a 200 mm or 180 mm radiator, eg. an Alphacool NexXxoS XT45 Full Copper, 238 x 199 x 48 mm; from calculation, this should be enough to even beat out a regular 280 mm radiator. So, 360 - 240 = 120. Put the PSU on top, add some spacer / radiator bracket / holder, and off we go.

Addendum:
c) Case mod: Partially outbound PSU - this would still allow for a 280 mm radiator. So, adding about 1 - 2 cm support to the upper vertical GPU bracket, and file down or bend inward of the existing opening enough to make the PSU fit snuggly through (its slighty below 6 cm). The radiator of the Aurora Pro 280 is essentially the Alphacool NexXxoS ST30, but pre-filled.

cu, w0lf.
 
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hrh_ginsterbusch

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Meshlicious weight check: I measured the weight of all the panels - the big ones (240 x 360) chime in at about 550 g, the top is about 295 g, and the small but high "front" panel is about 410 g. The case itself is about 1.5 kg. The sum of it is ~ 3.3 kg.

So the official measurement of 3.6 kg found everywhere .. is wrong! Apparently Geizhals and others (including the SFF PC Master List) use the weight specifications of the Meshlicious with the glass side panel FOR BOTH case variations.

cu, w0lf.
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

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Another update on the cooling / VRM solutions:

After taking measurements and lots of thinking, I decided to go with the be quiet! Silent Loop 2 + 2x Arctic P14 PWM A-RGB 0db fans as an intermediate solution (which sums up to a depth of 54 mm = 27 mm radiator + 27 mm fans), plus doing the "outbound" PSU mod. The Arctic fans mostly because of cooling performance, but also a bit of light RGB, as I've grown quite fond of the two red glowing rings in my Phanteks P360 A :)

Also, on VRM cooling, I'm both gonna try ou a 40 mm or 60 mm fan positioned right over the VRM section, but also just a "generic" slim size 80 pwm fan positioned on top or the side to gently blow air at the mainboard components. A third option might be a directed 120 pwm fan on the "mainboard side" of the case, ie. set on the mesh panel.

As I'm a tinkerer, I'm probably gonna try out ALL options and then stick with the one which fits best with both cooling performance AND the main goal of portability in mind :)

cu, w0lf.
 
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hrh_ginsterbusch

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Another take on the watercooling thingie: Just tested around with a cardboard mockup of the Arctic Liquid Freezer II A-RGB + fans, but with a depth of 65 mm - its a tight fit, but it should work!

Side panel closes without any bulging, the mockup is still somewhat movable, does not press into the outcuts and outbounding molds of the mainboard / middle column .. so its worth a try!
If its too tight of a fit, but only by 1 - 2 mm, then replacing the Arctic fans with 2x Noctua NF-A14 industrialPPC PWM fans (2000 or 3000 rpm) might be another option.

Only if all of that fails, I am going to persue the Silent Loop 2 option + Arctic or Noctua fans.

cu, w0lf.
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

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Hm .. after further research about the water cooling issue, my brain hurts.

Turns out, that the Artic Liquid Freezer II apparently isnt compatible with the mainboard I want to use, ie. the Gigabyte Z690M Aorus Elite AX DDR4. Arctic states this on their website, which differs from the information - including a screenshot from the original press / news release - found on the net. Said screenshot shows an image of the pump casing, with the lower part of the pump / cooling plate combo casing removed, and a short list of boards that are affected by this issue.



So its back to Silent Loop 2 for now. Maybe with different fans - got 2x Arctic P14 PWM PST sitting around, that never made it into my current system (Phanteks Eclipse P360A). Would give these a first try; other option would be Noctua NF-A14 industrialPPC-2000 or SilverStone Air Penetrator / FHP 14x. Ie. something with a lot of oomph, but also a lot of headroom (and PWM, obviously).

BTW: These are the current mainboard candidates (incl. URLs to geizhals):

- Gigabyte Z690M Aorus Elite AX DDR4 - https://geizhals.de/gigabyte-z690m-a-elite-ax-ddr4-a2625190.html
- Asus Prime Z690M-Plus D4 - https://geizhals.de/asus-prime-z690m-plus-d4-90mb18q0-m0eay0-a2625586.html
- MSI MAG Z690M Mortar WIFI - https://geizhals.de/msi-mag-z690m-mortar-wifi-a2625650.html

cu, w0lf.
 
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