CPU i7 8700k Delided and Silver IHS from der8auer team

Hifihedgehog

Editor-in-chief of SFFPC.review
May 3, 2016
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Take what is below as a warning, especially to us small form factor builders who work in thermally tight quarters and who may be toying with the idea of the Core i7-8700K. Remember: unlike us, the reviewers below often are using open-air, premium liquid cooled test benches in obtaining their results:





 
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Maestria

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Jun 8, 2017
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It's true but these test should be taken carefully. It seems some motherboard have auto-overclock for L3 cache like Asus motherboard. This explain Linus bad result.

But some don't have any auto-overclock like gigabyte (i don't know for MSI and Asrock).
Tweaktown use a gigabyte and they have same power consumption between 7700k and 8700k https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8...0k-i5-8400-coffee-lake-cpu-review/index7.html
Wccftech use asrock and they have less power comsuption for 8700k http://wccftech.com/review/intel-core-i7-8700k-core-i5-8600k-core-i5-8400-cpu-review/9/
Anandtech use gigabyte and they have same power consumption between 7700k and 8700k https://www.anandtech.com/show/1185...-lake-review-8700k-and-8400-initial-numbers/5
 

Revenant

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Apr 21, 2017
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This is why I picked up the 8700 non-k for my 3.5L build. However, I did pick up the Asus ROG Strix Z370I which arrived today. As soon as the CPU arrives, I'm tossing it into a DAN PC case until my Custom Mod arrives. I'll give a report on the temps.
 
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Hifihedgehog

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May 3, 2016
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It's true but these test should be taken carefully. It seems some motherboard have auto-overclock for L3 cache like Asus motherboard. This explain Linus bad result.

But some don't have any auto-overclock like gigabyte (i don't know for MSI and Asrock).
Tweaktown use a gigabyte and they have same power consumption between 7700k and 8700k https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8...0k-i5-8400-coffee-lake-cpu-review/index7.html
Wccftech use asrock and they have less power comsuption for 8700k http://wccftech.com/review/intel-core-i7-8700k-core-i5-8600k-core-i5-8400-cpu-review/9/
Anandtech use gigabyte and they have same power consumption between 7700k and 8700k https://www.anandtech.com/show/1185...-lake-review-8700k-and-8400-initial-numbers/5
I have not been as convinced by AnandTech's articles since Anand Shimpi left for Apple several years ago and I have often found discrepancies like the one you mention above that deviate from the test results of other sites. As far as the others of your other observations, first look at the WCCFTech power chart (that site is generally source of unprofessional and inconsistent information) more closely since there is a clear flaw in their test results: the 8700K produces far more heat far than the 7700K yet it is drawing less power. From a physics-based standpoint, that does not follow since energy in equals energy out in any system meaning the increase of heat should be generally roughly proportional to the increase of power draw. Let me repeat: they were using premium liquid cooling (such as the Alphacool Eisbaer 420) in open air test benches for the test configurations at Tom's Hardware and at most of the other review sites. The same sort of pattern applies to the other observations and can be summarized like this: there is no free lunch in adding 50% more cores of the same three generation-old CPU architecture (they are still Skylake-based CPU cores, after all). So it is naturally to be expected that an already hot CPU, the 7700K, would get even hotter with two additional cores in tow.

---

To illustrate 8700K's temperature defiencies, here is a non-synthetic gaming test mapping out tempeature while using the Alphacool Eisbear 420. Per the manufacturer, "[t]he Alphacool Eisbaer 420mm is the biggest and strongest expandable CPU AIO worldwide." Naturally, therefore, most other AIOs would fare far worse in this test configuration. Higher workloads such as video encoding and synthetic testing will be naturally higher. Those higher workloads will result in even higher temperatures in cramped ventilation or with air cooling.




From Gamespot:

Temperatures
As stated earlier in the methodology, we used the NZXT Kraken X62; an all-in-one liquid CPU cooler with a dual-fan 280mm radiator. However, the 8700K still got pretty hot. At idle, the CPU sat at a mild 32 degrees Celsius and went up to 78 degrees Celsius under load during our runs of X264. With using the 5.0GHz overclock profile, it reached 86 degrees Celsius under load in X264, which is considered higher than desirable.​

Let's break this down. At stock voltage and clock settings, the 8700K reached a temperature of 78 degrees Celsius. This was again with a premium AIO, NZXT Kraken X62, which is a $150+ solution with a 280mm radiator. By comparison, according to the Amazon reviews of the X62, the 7700K reaches maximum temperatures of the high 50 degrees Celsius with the same cooler. This is a twenty degree Celsius increase in temperature over the 7700K. Expect 80 to 90 temperatures with throttling with more normal liquid cooling solutions. Beware of throttling, possibly thermal shutdown and heat damage (as has already been reported with X299) if attempting air cooling.

In short, this is frankly disappointing for what is the flagship of Intel's mainstream processor line. I could understand this if this were an HEDT processor in their X299 line, but it is not. There were reports of overheating with 7700K in DIY systems and mass market builds due to users and manufacturers using standard air cooling (e.g. the Cooler Master Hyper 212). This common theme of overheating will only worsen and become more commonplace for 8700K due to its added 20 degree Celsius disadvantage over its predecessor.
 
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Maestria

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Original poster
Jun 8, 2017
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I have not been as convinced by AnandTech's articles since Anand Shimpi left for Apple several years ago and I have often found discrepancies like the one you mention above that deviate from the test results of other sites. As far as the others of your other observations, first look at the WCCFTech power chart (that site is generally source of unprofessional and inconsistent information) more closely since there is a clear flaw in their test results: the 8700K produces far more heat far than the 7700K yet it is drawing less power. From a physics-based standpoint, that does not follow since energy in equals energy out in any system meaning the increase of heat should be generally roughly proportional to the increase of power draw. Let me repeat: they were using premium liquid cooling (such as the Alphacool Eisbaer 420) in open air test benches for the test configurations at Tom's Hardware and at most of the other review sites.

More power draw doesn't always mean higher temperature, there is other factor to take into account. Like TIM quality and/or application. In 8700k case, it seems they improved a little bit the quality of thermal paste used as TIM (der8auer said it in the video i posted earlier). But a bad application and one of the core can reach higher temperature than other. I have a 3770k, it's first intel CPU without indium joint. When i stressed it, one of the core reach a temperature 8° higher than other.

The same sort of pattern applies to the other observations and can be summarized like this: there is no free lunch in adding 50% more cores of the same three generation-old CPU architecture (they are still Skylake-based CPU cores, after all). So it is naturally to be expected that an already hot CPU, the 7700K, would get even hotter with two additional cores in tow.

7700k and 8700k are still different (TDP,clock,process) and you cannot anticipate temperature by this statement. 7700k is using 14nm+ process, 8700k is using the last 14nm++ process wich mean less power draw at equivalent configuration. So it's not an apple to apple to comparison. 7740x is using 14nm++ process and draw less power than 7700k even with a higher TDP and base clock : https://www.anandtech.com/show/1154...-the-new-single-thread-champion-oc-to-5ghz/17

Temperature depends on power draw, size of surfaces (IHS, Die, cooler) and conductivity of different material that are in contact (indium, thermal paste, nickel, copper, air, water...)

Power draw :
As i said earlier, it seems some motherboard apply auto-overclock and then they do not respect TDP set by intel. This is why some site have less power draw or equal to 7700k and other have very very bad result.

There is an other proof of that, the french part of tom's hardware tested the 8700 non k version. And they have almost the same power consumption : http://www.tomshardware.fr/articles/test-coffee-lake-core-i7-8700k-8700,2-2733-15.html

If you take a look at other result, you can see that 8700 is often better than 8700k in some benchmark. Even them are surprised by this result as stated in this news (sorry it's french language) http://www.tomshardware.fr/articles/test-coffee-lake-8700k-8700,1-65568.html

They said "Sachant que nous avons constaté les mêmes résultats sur des cartes mères de plusieurs marques différentes, nous penchons plutôt pour un microcode mal réglé pour le 8700, ou un overclocking automatique de certaines parties du processeur (interconnexion, cache ?)."
They think that these better result could come from auto-overclock or microcode error.

In this test (again in french sorry) https://www.conseil-config.com/2017/test-intel-core-i7-8700k/2/ they found that there motherboard is setting auto-overclock by default. Resulting in more power draw, very high temperature (100° on air) and then throttling. When they uncheck this in BIOS the CPU is in TDP range and is like the other test i linked before.

One more test in french http://www.hardware.fr/articles/970-17/attention-aux-overclockings-automatiques.html they found that there Asus motherboard is using auto-overclock when they set manualy there ram frequency. This result in higher voltage (0.1v) ,higher power draw (20w in there case), higher L3 cache frequency (4300 mhz) and better result (3.8% in application, 5.7% in games). Their gigabyte motherboard however is using TDP range set by intel and as you can see 8700k draw 100w from 12v when 7700k draw 109w http://www.hardware.fr/articles/970-4/consommation-efficacite-energetique.html

Size of surfaces :
IHS and cooler are same size but Die is a bit bigger for 8700k so it may help a little bit to dissipate heat.

Conductivity :
8700k is using a better TIM than 7700k according to Der8auer.

To illustrate 8700K's temperature defiencies, here is a non-synthetic gaming test mapping out tempeature while using the Alphacool Eisbear 420. Per the manufacturer, "[t]he Alphacool Eisbaer 420mm is the biggest and strongest expandable CPU AIO worldwide." Naturally, therefore, most other AIOs would fare far worse in this test configuration. Higher workloads such as video encoding and synthetic testing will be naturally higher. Those higher workloads will result in even higher temperatures in cramped ventilation or with air cooling.




From Gamespot:

Temperatures
As stated earlier in the methodology, we used the NZXT Kraken X62; an all-in-one liquid CPU cooler with a dual-fan 280mm radiator. However, the 8700K still got pretty hot. At idle, the CPU sat at a mild 32 degrees Celsius and went up to 78 degrees Celsius under load during our runs of X264. With using the 5.0GHz overclock profile, it reached 86 degrees Celsius under load in X264, which is considered higher than desirable.​

Let's break this down. At stock voltage and clock settings, the 8700K reached a temperature of 78 degrees Celsius. This was again with a premium AIO, NZXT Kraken X62, which is a $150+ solution with a 280mm radiator. By comparison, according to the Amazon reviews of the X62, the 7700K reaches maximum temperatures of the high 50 degrees Celsius with the same cooler. This is a twenty degree Celsius increase in temperature over the 7700K. Expect 80 to 90 temperatures with throttling with more normal liquid cooling solutions. Beware of throttling, possibly thermal shutdown and heat damage (as has already been reported with X299) if attempting air cooling.

In short, this is frankly disappointing for what is the flagship of Intel's mainstream processor line. I could understand this if this were an HEDT processor in their X299 line, but it is not. There were reports of overheating with 7700K in DIY systems and mass market builds due to users and manufacturers using standard air cooling (e.g. the Cooler Master Hyper 212). This common theme of overheating will only worsen and become more commonplace for 8700K due to its added 20 degree Celsius disadvantage over its predecessor.

As i said, i think these result are false because of auto-overclock of their motherboard and 8700k don't stay in his TDP range set by intel. Motherboard manufacturer are doing this to claim they have the best motherboard i guess.

This is why I picked up the 8700 non-k for my 3.5L build. However, I did pick up the Asus ROG Strix Z370I which arrived today. As soon as the CPU arrives, I'm tossing it into a DAN PC case until my Custom Mod arrives. I'll give a report on the temps.

If you try this with an Asus motherboard, i think you should take a look in your BIOS and disable auto-overclock. Or you will have some trouble like tom's hardware with a 8700 drawing as much power as 8700k
 
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Hifihedgehog

Editor-in-chief of SFFPC.review
May 3, 2016
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As i said, i think these result are false because of auto-overclock of their motherboard and 8700k don't stay in his TDP range set by intel. Motherboard manufacturer are doing this to claim they have the best motherboard i guess.
Woah there. You are over complicating things. Per my readings, there is no auto overclock active on many of the boards being used. The originating source of this rumor, The Tech Report LLC, has since redacted their claim. The manufacturer, Gigabyte, stated that all-core auto overclock is off by default. Therefore, the power draw they and many are seeing is accurate.


Marginal improvements aside, Intel still has worse TIM. So if the 8700K draws far more power than either the 7700K or Ryzen, it follows that it will expel far more heat, and, since its TIM is worse than Ryzen, it will be even hotter than Ryzen still. WYSIWYG: the 8700K is more power hungry and hotter than any mainstream desktop CPU in years, so plan on it.
 

TheHig

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Oct 13, 2016
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It's early but as far as sff is concerned the i5 8400 seems like the sweet spot. Good stock performance, lower power consumption and temps. Now just need some h300 series itx boards and it may have some sweet price/performance per Watt. It's really the only Coffee Lake CPU that interests me so far.
 

Maestria

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Jun 8, 2017
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So, i just got my 8700k Ultra edition from Der8auer and i did some test.

Here is my setup :

CPU : 8700k Ultra Edition
Mobo : Asus z370-i gaming
Cooler : Noctua NH-L9i
Ram : 32Gb Corsair LPX 4000Mhz (@3466Mhz 15-15-15-35 1)
PSU : FSP Flex ATX 500w platinum
GPU : None, i used integrated GPU

@Stock, open air (Room temp 21°c), Asus cache Auto-Overclock Off, Asus Power enhancement Off, FAN Speed auto (Standard Fan curve)

When Asus Power enhancement is disabled, it seems that max frequency is almost base frequency.
Max Turbo Multiplier (all core) : 38
Max Turbo Multiplier (One core) : 38
Max Frequency during AVX test : 3800Mhz
Max Frequency during non AVX test : 3800Mhz
Idle Frequency : 800Mhz

Idle :
Temp : 28°c
Fan Speed : 1080RPM
Power Consumption (from wall) : 27W
Noise : Dead silent

Load : (Prime95, Small FFT, AVX Enabled, AVX offset Auto)
Temp : 72°c
Fan Speed : 1846RPM
Power Consumption (from wall) : 122W
Noise : Silent


Keep in mind, it's a custom and binned CPU.
I will try undervolting and overclocking to see how much i can push it.
 
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drunker

Trash Compacter
Apr 25, 2017
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So, i just got my 8700k Ultra edition from Der8auer and i did some test.

Here is my setup :

CPU : 8700k Ultra Edition
Mobo : Asus z370-i gaming
Cooler : Noctua NH-L9i
Ram : 32Gb Corsair LPX 4000Mhz (@3466Mhz 14-14-14-34 1)
PSU : FSP Flex ATX 500w platinum
GPU : None, i used integrated GPU

@Stock, open air (Room temp 21°c), Asus cache Auto-Overclock Off, FAN Speed auto (Standard Fan curve)

Idle :
Temp : 28°c
Fan Speed : 1080RPM
Power Consumption (from wall) : 27W
Noise : Dead silent

Load : (Prime95, Small FFT, AVX Enabled, AVX offset Auto)
Temp : 72°c
Fan Speed : 1846RPM
Power Consumption (from wall) : 122W
Noise : Silent


Keep in mind, it's a custom and binned CPU.
I will try undervolting and overclocking to see how much i can push it.
This is the pretty impressive for a such a small cooler, even if it's open air.
 

Maestria

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Jun 8, 2017
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So i did a bit more test, undervolting and overclocking.

For each test :
open air (Room temp 21°c)
FAN Speed auto (Standard Fan curve)

Test 1 (Idle @Stock + Ram OC):
Asus Power enhancement Off
Asus cache Auto Overclock Off
AVX Offset : 0

Test 2 (Load @Stock + Ram OC):
Asus Power enhancement Off
Asus cache Auto Overclock Off
AVX Offset : 0

Test 3 (Load @Stock = BIOS default settings):
Asus Power enhancement On
Asus cache Auto Overclock On
AVX Offset : 0

Test 4 (Load @Stock Undervolt):
Asus Power enhancement On
Asus cache Auto Overclock On
AVX Offset : 0

Test 5 (Load Oc 4.7 all core):
Asus Power enhancement On
Asus cache Auto Overclock On
AVX Offset : 2

Test 6 (Load @Stock Undervolt + Ram OC):
Asus Power enhancement On
Asus cache Auto Overclock On
AVX Offset : 0

Result :

Screenshot :

I plan to use case 6 (maybe with small AVX offset) in my case as Prime 95 Small FFT is a worst case scenario.
For those that are interested by a 8700k in SFF case, you cannot expect using it without delidding and undervolting.
Maybe even underclocking if you don't want to delidd.
 
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Maestria

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Jun 8, 2017
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I have a review with a not customized 8700k and same stress test but far better cooler.
It's in french so i added his result to my table, this way you can compare.

https://www.conseil-config.com/2017/test-intel-core-i7-8700k/2/#les-tests

His configuration :
CPU : 8700k
Mobo : Asus ROG Maximus X Hero
Cooler : Noctua NH-D15 and NZXT Kraken X62
Ram : 2 x Crucial Ballistix DDR4 8 Go 2400 MHz
PSU : Seasonic Snow Silent 750
GPU : Asus ROG GTX 1080 Ti Poseidon Platinum


With same BIOS configuration (my Test 2), we achieve same power consumption on CPU (My idle is 21w below and almost same for load with 19w below) and my CPU is only 6°C higher despite the fact that i use a far smaller cooler.

I also did some test of my CPU and RAM

 
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