Help needed for Noob Ncase M1 Build with Asrock X570 Phantom Gaming ITX/TB3

sunrainsky

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Dec 20, 2019
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Hi,
I am a noob and quite new to PC building. I finally received my parts so I started building.


The issue at hand:
RGB lights turn on on mother board but it will not power on.

Observation:
RGB on Motherboard turns on.
Power LED on front IO of case turns on
Nothing else turns on - CPU fan, GPU, RAM


All Brand New Parts:
MB: Asrock X570 Phantom Gaming ITX/TB3
CPU: Ryzen 5 3600
PSU: Corsair SF750W Platinum
RAM: G.SKILL TRIDENT RGB 8GB x 2
CASE: NCase M1
GPU: Nvidia 2070 SUPER
Cooler: Noctua C14S
Intake fan: Noctua A9
Side fans: A12x15 x 2
Bottom fans: waiting for A12X25 chromax.
M.2: NVME 1TB Addlink S70
2.5 SSD: MX500 1TB


So I my parts arrived yesterday *except the A9 fan* and I wanted to do a test out of box.

I tried to do a bench test on the MB box:
Installed the CPU
Installed the RAM
Add thermal paste and installed Cooler.
Installed GPU
Connected the 24 pin and 8 pin to the MB.
Connected the 8 + 6 pin to the CPU.
Connected the Front IO pins for the PWR LED and the PWR and the HDD LED.

Just some pics in the middle of troubleshooting

This is so that I can turn on easily as my hands shake trying to short the PWR pins to turn on.

I tried using one ram and switching it around (quite a pain with the C14S) but still the same.
One thing I noticed. When I first started, the LED on the power button was reddish.
Now it is blue.

I do not have a spare MB or AMD CPU.
I do have an old PC running so I am thinking of testing with its 400W power supply tonight.
Just wondering that since the RGB on the MB turns on, PSU should be working?

My MB is passed the return period :( since I was waiting for my parts to come in.
My CPU can still be returned.

Questions:
Can this MB POST without CPU? I do not know how to isolate between CPU and MB.
Can this MB post without GPU?
Could it be CMOS battery (just learnt about it)? But I have no idea where it is located on this board.
The pin diagram on the manual and the actual are different. Not sure if the PWRBTN# pin is still the same position as the diagram.

Any help or suggestion will be greatly appreciated.
 
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sunrainsky

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Dec 20, 2019
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Hi,
Not sure what you are trying to say. Please see my new picture. Is my Pin 8 and 7 in the diagram still the ones to turn on the PC?
 

riba2233

SFF Guru
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Jan 2, 2019
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Hi,
Not sure what you are trying to say. Please see my new picture. Is my Pin 8 and 7 in the diagram still the ones to turn on the PC?

He is trying to say that you are using the wrong header on the motherboard. You are trying to turn on the mbo with on the usb 2.0 internal connector. Please find the right header.
 
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sunrainsky

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Dec 20, 2019
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Hi,
I have some questions on the fans and headers.

This MB has 3 fan headers.
CPU/WATER PUMP, CPU, CHASSIS


I am thinking of connecting them as such.
The one with the four pin connection will be the first fan on each line.

Configuration 1
Using the A14 that came with the C14S

Configuration 1A
CPU/WATER PUMP - A14 Alone
CPU - Rear A9 + 2 x A12X15 on the side
CHASSIS - 2 x A12X25 fans below

I am putting the sensor pin on the Rear A9 since I reckon putting it on the A12X15 will make the A9 louder.
I think that when the A12X15 ramps up, the A9 will ramp up even more. So the monitoring should be on the A9 instead while I adjust the fan curve.

Configuration 1B
CPU/WATER PUMP - A14 Alone + 1 x A12X15 (the side fan on top of the C14S)
CPU - Rear A9 + 1 x A12X15 on the side
CHASSIS - 2 x A12X25 fans below



Configuration 2
I am thinking of getting another A12X25 for the cooler in order to swap the PSU back to default position

CPU/WATER PUMP - A12X25 at CPU + 2 x A12X25 fans below
CPU - Rear A9
CHASSIS - 2 x A12X15 on the side

Configuration 2 seems better because they group the same size fans together.


Do you all have any comments or inputs for me on these configurations?
 

sunrainsky

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Original poster
Dec 20, 2019
35
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I have written a Build Log for anyone who is interested in using this motherboard with the NCASE M1.

This build, while completed, is really a Part 1.
Part 2 comes when the Chormax A12x25 is launched and I will be replacing the A14 used in the Noctua C14S and changing the PSU orientation back to the default stock orientation.

I also have not installed the ODD and SSD, USB 2.0 IO as well as the USB3.0 header.


Here is a comparison of my the old and new PC



I will only reiterate the final thoughts:

Final Thoughts
CAse – Ncase m1
It has been said so many times already but as a noob, I will reinforce it again. The Ncase M1 is really a great case to install in. I have no regrets having bought it.


Motherboard – CHIP SET FAN
I know of comments that the chipset fan is very loud on this motherboard but when I took it out before installing the new BIOS, I did not hear anything. I did not note the BIOS version but now it is 2.0 and I did not hear the fan still.

In order not to waste the USB 2.0 headers, I have purchased this:

I am intending to fix it on the spare power socket opening at the back.

CPU COOLER – NOCTUA NH-C14S
Unlike someone who said it will slice your knuckles, I do not think it is that bad.
You should try to plug in everything before installing the Cooler though.
This will likely get in the way of the USB3.0 headers so best to get an adapter.



Using the A14 fan that comes with it presents itself some limitation.
  • It blocks the installation of an SSD inside (important to me since I will be installing an ODD at the front of the NCASE M1)
  • it only allows one side fan to be installed since the PSU blocks it.
  • Besides that, we all know the CPU fan is facing inward which means that it is breathing in the hot air and expelling it out.
Because of these, I will be getting the A12X25 to replace the A14.


GPU
One of the concerns about this GPU is that their fans are constantly on. They are really quiet and I do not hear them at Idle. I have not stressed them yet but I know they can be loud since you will get a taste of them at each startup when they ram up to the maximum.



NOISE
I kept everything at stock fan settings and to me, I do not hear anything unless I put my ear next to the case.


THERMALS
CPU – 43 C
GPU – 31 C

At normal usage of web browsing.


Feel free to ask any questions though most should be answered in my build log.
I could not find as many builds using this motherboard especially with the C14S previously.

I am still waiting for the A9 fan to install. I know that depending on the motherboard and cooler mouting position on it, some other users have used slim 9cm fans since the cooler heaksink tubes were eating into the space at the back. From a glance, it seems that the A9 fan with 25 mm thickness should be able to fit. I will confirm again when I have the fan.
 
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Frenzy

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Feb 14, 2020
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My 2c. Good to see your happy with the build, i'm a happy Ncase owner too (+DAN A4 case now). Maybe some pics of the build itself with open panels? I can't access the build log due to company-browsing restrictions. I'm finding it a bit hard to visualize what you're planning to do, and what restrictions the CPU cooler causes.

On first glance, you're installing a lot of case fans. You don't seem to be going for a super quiet low-rpm build. The C14S is top/down orientation right, so sucks from the side panel to the mobo. Then is the A9 side intake necesary?
I would use 25mm thick fans where possible especially for the CPU cooling. You need higher static pressure to push through the fins properly. I had done some bottom intakes A12x15mm fans on my Ncase, just by using my hand gauging the airflow, i found had to turn the RPM too loud to displace any meaningful air.

I dont understand why you say the C14 with A14fan +ODD blocks installing an SSD? You don't have to use the drive cage mount on the side panel. Linking to an Ncase with C14 with A12x25mm fans. You can see it fits 3x SSD's on the inside part of the front chassis panel, you can still use ODD on the outside part of front chassis panel.
Hope this helps solve your concern here. There are 3 sliding mounting holes on that position i believe (not 4 like normal, but its enough for the light ssd's).

Also the links shows you can do the 2nd A12x25 as outtake and the A9 as outtake to expel the air from the CPU intakes.

https://hardforum.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbaHoeZf.jpg&hash=d6c7bcb3e01f11b9fd45c3c56b7d48ce
 

sunrainsky

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Original poster
Dec 20, 2019
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My 2c. Good to see your happy with the build, i'm a happy Ncase owner too (+DAN A4 case now). Maybe some pics of the build itself with open panels? I can't access the build log due to company-browsing restrictions. I'm finding it a bit hard to visualize what you're planning to do, and what restrictions the CPU cooler causes.

On first glance, you're installing a lot of case fans. You don't seem to be going for a super quiet low-rpm build. The C14S is top/down orientation right, so sucks from the side panel to the mobo. Then is the A9 side intake necesary?
I would use 25mm thick fans where possible especially for the CPU cooling. You need higher static pressure to push through the fins properly. I had done some bottom intakes A12x15mm fans on my Ncase, just by using my hand gauging the airflow, i found had to turn the RPM too loud to displace any meaningful air.

I dont understand why you say the C14 with A14fan +ODD blocks installing an SSD? You don't have to use the drive cage mount on the side panel. Linking to an Ncase with C14 with A12x25mm fans. You can see it fits 3x SSD's on the inside part of the front chassis panel, you can still use ODD on the outside part of front chassis panel.
Hope this helps solve your concern here. There are 3 sliding mounting holes on that position i believe (not 4 like normal, but its enough for the light ssd's).

Also the links shows you can do the 2nd A12x25 as outtake and the A9 as outtake to expel the air from the CPU intakes.

https://hardforum.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbaHoeZf.jpg&hash=d6c7bcb3e01f11b9fd45c3c56b7d48ce

Hi, I've put together some pics to show.

I actually put the A14 and the A12X15 to exhaust actually.
I do not think a A12X25 will fit the side panel because the C14 and the C14S is different. The C14S is taller so fitting a 25mm thick fan is not possible.

You can only put in the SDD when the PSU is in the default position. I had to use the ATX position so the PSU is exhausting the hot air, not intake cold air.

The only way to achieve having the PSU in the default stock position is to change the A14 fan into a A12X25 fan when using the C14S. The A14 fan will get in the way of the PSU bracket. I will actually be doing this. This build is really a Part 1. I will proceed with Part 2 when the A12X25 chromax is launched. That's when I use one A12X25 to replace the A14 and the remaining two A12X25 will be used as intakes at the bottom of the case.

I have edited my Final Thoughts to reflect this.
 
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Frenzy

Trash Compacter
Feb 14, 2020
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Aha, pics help a lot, I understand now. Having the SFX PSU in the ATX position really complicates matters.
So as you write your eventual aim is to have the PSU in the normal SFX position (normal for me is facing out, sucking cold air in). I would strongly suggest the same. I believe the C14S +3600 will perform fine with an A12x25 underneath still (and keep the A12x15 chromax as intake on top). I have a DAN A4 with 3700x & Noctua NH-L9a (A9x15 fan), which under working conditions (gaming basically) still performs ok (~75 C). Just dont expect to rendering like Cinebench, that would bring it near the thermal throttle of 95C.

Your graphics card is a Founders Edition, these dont have the "idle-stop" feature i believe.

The "spare power socket opening on the back" this is a nameplate holder actually on mine. But yeah could function as extra USB connection, quite a good idea. Question is would you be needing that many USB ports. I have 2 USB2. hubs unused on my mobo, not too bothered by it.
 

sunrainsky

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Original poster
Dec 20, 2019
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Aha, pics help a lot, I understand now. Having the SFX PSU in the ATX position really complicates matters.
So as you write your eventual aim is to have the PSU in the normal SFX position (normal for me is facing out, sucking cold air in). I would strongly suggest the same. I believe the C14S +3600 will perform fine with an A12x25 underneath still (and keep the A12x15 chromax as intake on top). I have a DAN A4 with 3700x & Noctua NH-L9a (A9x15 fan), which under working conditions (gaming basically) still performs ok (~75 C). Just dont expect to rendering like Cinebench, that would bring it near the thermal throttle of 95C.

Your graphics card is a Founders Edition, these dont have the "idle-stop" feature i believe.

The "spare power socket opening on the back" this is a nameplate holder actually on mine. But yeah could function as extra USB connection, quite a good idea. Question is would you be needing that many USB ports. I have 2 USB2. hubs unused on my mobo, not too bothered by it.

Yes! I'll be using the nameplate holder slot.

I want to put my wireless Keyboard or mouse in those slot and maybe even my wireless Game controller receiver. Basically those that does not need the fast speed.


As you can see, this motherboard only has 4 USB 3.0 slots behind. To use any of them for such menial tasks is a waste LOL.

For the USB 3.0, I have like many external HDD to connect. The good thing is I could use a USB hub with the thunderbolt connection but don't see the need to go that route yet.

I'm wondering whether the USB C on the graphic card could be used to connect like a normal USB C.
 

sunrainsky

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Dec 20, 2019
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I have just installed the rear fan and the USB 2.0 headers.



Installation of rear fan.
I took the opportunity to change the direction of the CPU and side fan to intake since I felt the thermals could be better.

Installing the rear fan without removing the cooler proved to be a bit more difficult than I thought. Especially when I was trying to use Noctua’s anti vibration mount. I did not like the end result even after cutting it short

I also changed the header for the side fan. It is now connected together with the rear fan with the sensor on the rear fan. I still have a remaining connector left for the remaining side fan once I get the A12X25 to replace the A14.

I decided to use a cheaper version of the fan mount simply because I prefer the look. They prove to be easy to install – just push hard against the back and pull it through. I used the long one in the picture below.

Installation of USB 2.0 Headers
I have not seen anyone done this yet, but I decided not to waste the USB 2.0 headers. I had to remove the nameplate for this.

I had spare fan mounts so I thought I try to mount the name plate onto the back grill holes.

My final back view: I used the USB 2.0 for the wireless keyboard in order not to waste the USB 3.0 at the back. I also used a 90 degree power connector to make the power cable angle down.
 

Quantum

Cable Smoosher
New User
Dec 20, 2019
9
3
Hi,
just found this thread and I hope my quations about aircooling in the Ncase M1 can be answered by you guys, especially by @sunrainsky .
I am running a ryzen 7 2700x on an askock b450 gaming ITX/ac with an MSI Rtx2070 Ventus and 16Gb of Vengance LPX. I´m currently still using my noctua L12 with a 92mm and 120mm fan, but temperatures and noise levels aren´t great, even with an noctua L9 in the rear.
So I want to upgrade my Cpu cooler, but I am still not sure wether the U9S or the C14S is the better pick.
Soo my questions:
1. How well does the C14S handle cooling with the A12x25 under it?
2. How loud is the C14S? I 3D-printed a duct for the L12 as I hoped this would help improve temperatures,wich it did by a couple of degrees, but the system got oddly loud by the air passing through the vented side panel. If that is an issue with the C14S (with or without slim 120mm noctua fans between the sidepanel and the cooler) I would tend to use the U9S. If that is no issue, I think the C14 will be the better choice. I do quite a lot of Cpu intensive work, so a silent operation is key.

I hope you guys can help me out with that.
 

sunrainsky

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Dec 20, 2019
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Hi @Quantum.
I had the exact same mulling over which was better - the U9S or the C14S. When I searched through the internet, it was a unanimous "C14S". Hence I bought this one. I did have a third choice in my mind - the Thermalright Silver Arrow 130. This looked to be the best in my opinion. I talked to the seller in China and he believed it would fit my motherboard but he was not entirely certain and told me to get one of the D9 or was it L9 series to be safe (I would have gone for the U9S instead of these). Because this is my first every PC build, I did not dare to take the risk even though the cost of the Thermalright was about the same as the C14S.

Also, it seemed every motherboard's positioning of the cooler was different. Some motherboards positioned the cooler to be further back so that only a slim 15mm, 9cm fan could be used. I was fortunate my motherboard and the C14S allowed a 25mm thick fan.

Using the Asrock Tuning Fan test however, caused my side fan to have a minimum of 1500 rpm and I had to readjust the curve else it would be noisy.

In terms of noise levels, because I use a Nvidia RTX 2070 Super, at idle, I can hear a very low fan noise. It is not really noticeable. Not whine. Nvidia do not allow the fan to go below 40% fan speed at idle apparently. I have set my side fan and the A14 fan to a curve that is quiet.

My CPU (tdie) is 47 C average.


Note: I have not change the A14 to A12X25 yet. Why? Because Noctua just informed me that the Chormax version will only come out in Q2-Q3 which means Q3 since they previously annonced Q1-Q2 of 2020. I will definitely change because there is so much more advantage to usinga a A12X25 under the C14S heatsink.
 
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sunrainsky

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Dec 20, 2019
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I think there are threads which compare the U9S with the C14S as well as showing the A12X25 is better than the A14. I have read them before my build. Should not be difficult to find them with Google.