Ghost S1 build - Wait for Nvidia or not?

Coolofv

Minimal Tinkerer
Original poster
New User
Feb 17, 2020
3
1
Heya all you lovely people!

I recently realized i need to build a new gaming rig. My 8 year old R4 chunk of a hunk, even though upgraded twice and served me well over the years, does not do it for me anymore. Being out of the loop for a while i started researching and after a while, naturally, i found this community. I can no longer not build a SFF build.

I have purchased and just got my Ghost S1 delivered that i plan to use as my main gaming rig, a bit of modelling and later on VR.

I'm holding off buying a GPU until Nvidia releases their new series (gief that RTX!), which are roumored to hit the shelves this summer if im not mistaken. My aim is to get a 2070 RXT equivalent of todays card unless they become crazy overpriced.

To my question
Can we forsee the requirements of the new Nvidia cards? Could the new 7nm technology change any reqs?
I'd like to know if there there is a point in holding back buying the other components for my rig or not? (Motherboard, PSU etc.) In case they are not optimized for the new cards?

My speculated build
- Ghost S1
- M Tophat with either 2 noctua fans or 1 fan/1 HDD.
- Ryzen 3600X (Cooled by a Noctua nh l9a or L12)
- 32 GB of gangstah RAM that fits under the selected radiator
- RTX 3070
- Corsair SF600 PSU (Would i require 750W?)
- ROG STRIX B450-I (Are there better options?)

Cheerios
 

Funtwo

Minimal Tinkerer
New User
Feb 18, 2020
4
2
I did a S1 Build some days are go and i'm very happy about it.
I run the Ghost S1 without a tophat.
My Specs are:
Ryzen 3600
RTX 2070 MSI Ventus 8GB
16GB G.Skill trident 3200mhz RAM
B450 Aorus Mainboard

I use the Stock cooler from AMD cause its cooler then the Noctua l9a. ( while gaming i had 82 degrees with the Noctua and only 61 with the AMD) but if u use the M tophat with two fans i guess you will get better Temps if you use the Noctua l9a. I also can recommend u the l9x65 with a black fan on the top it looks nice, sadly there is no chromax. version of it. I went with the RAM cause i had it from my last build and it didnt affected the Coolers. THe Corsair SF600 is enough you dont need the 750. The Rog Strix B450 is a good Mainboard
 

Valantar

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 20, 2018
2,188
2,185
Sounds like a very nice build :) Looking forward to seeing what you end up with.

In general a new generation of graphics cards won't require anything "new". They are PCIe devices, and should thus be compatible with any PCIe host running a supported operating system where drivers are available, regardless of PCIe version etc. PSU requirements are impossible to predict accurately, but given what's possible in terms of cooling in a standard GPU form factor, the top card won't exceed 300W. As such a 600W PSU is, IMO, quite overkill, and should as such serve you perfectly well for many years.

How I would calculate power for this (or really any) build:
Add up real-world power draws for major components (CPU, GPU(s)), plus 15-25W for the motherboard+RAM+CPU cooler (start at baseline, add more for more/higher capacity RAM sticks, bigger boards or more on-board features; AIOs or water cooling loops counted separately), 10W per 3.5" HDD, 5W per two fans (unless they are very powerful, if so add a bit more), 5W per SSD, and then sum everything up and add 20% for headroom and peace of mind. Given that no real-world workload will stress every single component in your system to 100% at the same time, these numbers normally end up on the generous side, which is of course good.

CPU: ~90W real-world power draw when boosting
GPU: ...no idea, but let's go balls-to-the-wall and say 300W real-world power draw. Which is bonkers - only the most heavily OC'd 2080 Tis hit this number or exceed it.
Mobo+RAM: ~20W.
HDD: 10W
SSD (I'm assuming you're up to date enough to not consider booting your OS off an HDD): 5W
Fans: 5W
Sum: 430W
+20% for headroom in the PSU, allowing for degradation over time etc.: 516W.

In other words, 600W is ~15%/85W more than what is fine for even the highest end single GPUs out there (which you would struggle to fit into or keep cool in an SFF case anyhow). For a more reasonable GPU with, say, 2070S or RX 5700XT-like power draw (~210W under full load) even a 450W PSU is plenty (the sum including 20% headroom with a 210W GPU and everything else equal becomes 408W). So no, you definitely don't need a 750W PSU.
 
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Coolofv

Minimal Tinkerer
Original poster
New User
Feb 17, 2020
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1
I use the Stock cooler from AMD cause its cooler then the Noctua l9a. ( while gaming i had 82 degrees with the Noctua and only 61 with the AMD)
That much?! Looking at them both it doesn't look like the stock one is even bigger than the Noctua one. And Noctua seems to blow any compeditor out the park this makes little sense to me, especially since the fans have the same orientation.

I'd be ok with a 60degree CPU temps while gaming if i don't have to get a tophat. And if the L12 can bring it down even lower that would be awesome. Thanks for shedding light on that option!


Sounds like a very nice build :) Looking forward to seeing what you end up with.

In general a new generation of graphics cards won't require anything "new". They are PCIe devices, and should thus be compatible with any PCIe host running a supported operating system where drivers are available, regardless of PCIe version etc. PSU requirements are impossible to predict accurately, but given what's possible in terms of cooling in a standard GPU form factor, the top card won't exceed 300W. As such a 600W PSU is, IMO, quite overkill, and should as such serve you perfectly well for many years.

How I would calculate power for this (or really any) build:
Add up real-world power draws for major components (CPU, GPU(s)), plus 15-25W for the motherboard+RAM+CPU cooler (start at baseline, add more for more/higher capacity RAM sticks, bigger boards or more on-board features; AIOs or water cooling loops counted separately), 10W per 3.5" HDD, 5W per two fans (unless they are very powerful, if so add a bit more), 5W per SSD, and then sum everything up and add 20% for headroom and peace of mind. Given that no real-world workload will stress every single component in your system to 100% at the same time, these numbers normally end up on the generous side, which is of course good.

CPU: ~90W real-world power draw when boosting
GPU: ...no idea, but let's go balls-to-the-wall and say 300W real-world power draw. Which is bonkers - only the most heavily OC'd 2080 Tis hit this number or exceed it.
Mobo+RAM: ~20W.
HDD: 10W
SSD (I'm assuming you're up to date enough to not consider booting your OS off an HDD): 5W
Fans: 5W
Sum: 430W
+20% for headroom in the PSU, allowing for degradation over time etc.: 516W.

In other words, 600W is ~15%/85W more than what is fine for even the highest end single GPUs out there (which you would struggle to fit into or keep cool in an SFF case anyhow). For a more reasonable GPU with, say, 2070S or RX 5700XT-like power draw (~210W under full load) even a 450W PSU is plenty (the sum including 20% headroom with a 210W GPU and everything else equal becomes 408W). So no, you definitely don't need a 750W PSU.

Hey! I just learned how to roughly calculate PSU requirements. Appreciated my main man! Good too see that this will not be an issue.
I have a 750W PSU in my current rig as i wanted to OC my 3700k - but i never got to it. So i proboably wont with this build either. 600W decided!

As power will most likely not be an issue. How about the motherboard? I find the supply of mITX motherboards to be limited at best, so there doesn't seem to be too many options. Looking at what is available, would the cost be justified getting, lets say a X570 instead of a X470? Is there anything on the release radar worth waiting for?
 
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Valantar

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 20, 2018
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Hey! I just learned how to roughly calculate PSU requirements. Appreciated my main man! Good too see that this will not be an issue.
I have a 750W PSU in my current rig as i wanted to OC my 3700k - but i never got to it. So i proboably wont with this build either. 600W decided!
Sounds good! Overpowered PSUs is one of my PC building pet peeves (many people still make PSU recommendations or purchase decisions based on decade-old logic from a time when PSU ratings were often for peak output rather than continuous output and quality was generally garbage, which hasn't been the case for at least five years (often a lot more) for mainstream brands or above. The calculation method I've outlined above has been my go-to for a while and is strongly influenced by others on these forums, and as a lot of people show with their builds here: you often don't need nearly as powerful a PSU as you might think :) Last but not least: never listen to component spec sheet "PSU requirement" numbers, as they are inevitably stupidly high to free the manufacturer of liability for people using too-small PSUs in complex configurations.

As power will most likely not be an issue. How about the motherboard? I find the supply of mITX motherboards to be limited at best, so there doesn't seem to be too many options. Looking at what is available, would the cost be justified getting, lets say a X570 instead of a X470? Is there anything on the release radar worth waiting for?
X470 is rather meaningless at this point; it doesn't really provide anything of value that B450 doesn't also have. So the standard choices these days are either B450 for price and simplicity or X570 for features and performance. The main pros of X570 are I/O and board quality, with PCIe 4.0 support, usually two m.2 slots (not ASrock), higher supported memory speeds due to improved trace quality, and generally more premium/up-to-date featuresets. Some boards - Asus especially - have extremely high quality VRM setups for either running crazy OCs or just very efficient operation. B450 only has the PCIe required for a single m.2 (Asus has a board with two, but it takes bandwidth away from the main x16 slot) but is far cheaper and generally performs as well. There's also limited value to PCIe 4.0 right now, but there might be some in a couple of years.

There are only four ITX X570 boards in existence (well, technically three, as the Asus Crosshair VIII Impact is DTX and thus won't fit the smallest ITX cases or sandwich layouts): Asus ROG Strix X570-I Gaming, Gigabyte X570 I Aorus Pro Wifi and ASRock Phantom Gaming X570 ITX/TB3. The Asus C8I is generally overkill for anyone not doing LN2 overclocking or pricy show builds, with the X570-I being a good premium option with an excellent VRM setup, good I/O, good chipset/VRM cooling, but a very crowded layout. The Aorus is a great "entry" X570 board that's cheaper than Asus but delivers pretty much all the same stuff except the massive VRM. The ASrock stands out by only having one m.2, but also by having Thunderbolt 3 onboard, including an official TB3 certification from Intel (first AMD board ever to have this). It also has a weird design choice: it uses the Intel cooler mount rather than the AM4 one, so cooler compatibility can be a bit weird due to the non-standard implementation. Aorus and ASrock tend to be roughly similar in price.

If I were you, I'd ask myself two things: do I care about having a second m.2 slot for future storage expansion? And do I care about PCIe 4.0 for longevity? If the answer to both of those is "no", then pick a nice, well-reviewed B450 board and be happy. Or, of course, wait until B550 shows up (rumored to be Q2 2020, but it's been delayed several times so nobody really knows), which should bring PCIe 4.0 for CPU-connected lanes as well as sufficient PCIe from the chipset for another m.2 at 3.0 speeds, while being priced closer to B450 than X570.
 

Funtwo

Minimal Tinkerer
New User
Feb 18, 2020
4
2
That much?! Looking at them both it doesn't look like the stock one is even bigger than the Noctua one. And Noctua seems to blow any compeditor out the park this makes little sense to me, especially since the fans have the same orientation.

I'd be ok with a 60degree CPU temps while gaming if i don't have to get a tophat. And if the L12 can bring it down even lower that would be awesome. Thanks for shedding light on that option!

I'm sorry i had 82 with the Noctua and 71 with the AMD. After adapting the Fan Curve i hitted 75 with the Noctua and 67 with the AMD. I Don't know why but the AMD Stock cooler is better - i also tested the L9x65 and this one is as good as the AMD. There is also a Test Review vom Ghost where they say the l9 is not enough. But as long as u stay under 95 Degrees your CPU wont throttle - but that would annoy me somehow if that would happen. By the way The new Ryzen 3rd Generation Processors are hotter then the 2nd Generation ( about 3-8 Degrees).
 
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Coolofv

Minimal Tinkerer
Original poster
New User
Feb 17, 2020
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Sounds good! Overpowered PSUs is one of my PC building pet peeves (many people still make PSU recommendations or purchase decisions based on decade-old logic from a time when PSU ratings were often for peak output rather than continuous output and quality was generally garbage, which hasn't been the case for at least five years (often a lot more) for mainstream brands or above. The calculation method I've outlined above has been my go-to for a while and is strongly influenced by others on these forums, and as a lot of people show with their builds here: you often don't need nearly as powerful a PSU as you might think :) Last but not least: never listen to component spec sheet "PSU requirement" numbers, as they are inevitably stupidly high to free the manufacturer of liability for people using too-small PSUs in complex configurations.


X470 is rather meaningless at this point; it doesn't really provide anything of value that B450 doesn't also have. So the standard choices these days are either B450 for price and simplicity or X570 for features and performance. The main pros of X570 are I/O and board quality, with PCIe 4.0 support, usually two m.2 slots (not ASrock), higher supported memory speeds due to improved trace quality, and generally more premium/up-to-date featuresets. Some boards - Asus especially - have extremely high quality VRM setups for either running crazy OCs or just very efficient operation. B450 only has the PCIe required for a single m.2 (Asus has a board with two, but it takes bandwidth away from the main x16 slot) but is far cheaper and generally performs as well. There's also limited value to PCIe 4.0 right now, but there might be some in a couple of years.

There are only four ITX X570 boards in existence (well, technically three, as the Asus Crosshair VIII Impact is DTX and thus won't fit the smallest ITX cases or sandwich layouts): Asus ROG Strix X570-I Gaming, Gigabyte X570 I Aorus Pro Wifi and ASRock Phantom Gaming X570 ITX/TB3. The Asus C8I is generally overkill for anyone not doing LN2 overclocking or pricy show builds, with the X570-I being a good premium option with an excellent VRM setup, good I/O, good chipset/VRM cooling, but a very crowded layout. The Aorus is a great "entry" X570 board that's cheaper than Asus but delivers pretty much all the same stuff except the massive VRM. The ASrock stands out by only having one m.2, but also by having Thunderbolt 3 onboard, including an official TB3 certification from Intel (first AMD board ever to have this). It also has a weird design choice: it uses the Intel cooler mount rather than the AM4 one, so cooler compatibility can be a bit weird due to the non-standard implementation. Aorus and ASrock tend to be roughly similar in price.

If I were you, I'd ask myself two things: do I care about having a second m.2 slot for future storage expansion? And do I care about PCIe 4.0 for longevity? If the answer to both of those is "no", then pick a nice, well-reviewed B450 board and be happy. Or, of course, wait until B550 shows up (rumored to be Q2 2020, but it's been delayed several times so nobody really knows), which should bring PCIe 4.0 for CPU-connected lanes as well as sufficient PCIe from the chipset for another m.2 at 3.0 speeds, while being priced closer to B450 than X570.
Thanks for providing such thurough/solid answers! I plan to use this rig for a while, and i've learned from experience that investing in a quality MOBO is usually worth it. Especially just before standards are switching (e.g. PCI-E 3 -> 4). I've settled for the Gigabyte X570 for this reason, and i also like the abundancy of USB ports. (However, i don't understand why they crammed 2 HDMI ports and 1 DP on there..)

I'm sorry i had 82 with the Noctua and 71 with the AMD. After adapting the Fan Curve i hitted 75 with the Noctua and 67 with the AMD. I Don't know why but the AMD Stock cooler is better - i also tested the L9x65 and this one is as good as the AMD. There is also a Test Review vom Ghost where they say the l9 is not enough. But as long as u stay under 95 Degrees your CPU wont throttle - but that would annoy me somehow if that would happen. By the way The new Ryzen 3rd Generation Processors are hotter then the 2nd Generation ( about 3-8 Degrees).

Interesting af. I've seen other builds that has severly lower temps without tophats. But maybe these have been runnning the NH12s which seems to be the best Air cooler option by far. Although with the downside of requiring some forcefull modding.
Do you know if you need to use a slim fan for the NH12s even if you are going with low profile memory sticks? I've seen screenshots where the heatsink is litterally resting on the RAMs and i'm not sure if this is after or before bending the pipes.


This is my prospect so far:
CPU: Ryzen 7 3700X or 3600
CPU Cooler: Starting with stock cooler, switching to NH12S if thermals need to be adressed.
Case: Ghost S1 (Might get a S or M tophat with 2 fans (OR 1fan 1HDD) to further battle thermals if needed)
GPU: Nvidia 3070 or 3060 equivalent depending on price. (I'll be cramming my GTX 980 in there until then)
MOBO: Gigabyte X570 I AORUS Pro
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB
PSU: Corsair SF600

Apart from the CPU cooler i've not quite decided between the 3600 or 3700X. Performance wise they seem very similar unless tyou look at multi threading, which doesn't quite affect me too much as i will mainly use this rig for gaming and some occational hobby moddeling.
I've been trying to find thermal data for the 3700X compared to the 3600 without any luck. Are you aware of any major differences in thermals between the two?
Is there anything else to consider?



...God damn, i'm looking forward to buying and building this! :D I can almost smell the thermal paste!
 

Funtwo

Minimal Tinkerer
New User
Feb 18, 2020
4
2
I have never tried the NH12S so i can't say anything about it.
I have seen some people writing about the Ryzen 7 3700X.. they say it's very hot.
But when you mainly go for gaming i would defintily go with the Ryzen 5 3600.
Maybe think about going for a Intel i5? You have a lot of options how u can build your PC you should go with that what makes you feel
most comfortable with.. and Budget( why spent 400 Dollars more if u can have the same system for a better price? :p )
 

Frenzy

Trash Compacter
Feb 14, 2020
41
17
I'm using a 3700x with the NH-L9a inside DAN A4 case. I can't speak much about the difference to 3600. The L9a is definitely taxed. What disappointed me the most was the idle power requirement behaviour, which makes the core temp fluctuate constantly +/- 5 degrees, even with a delay my fan used to ramp up and down constantly. With slight undervolt and fan duct, this is solved now. I had to re-apply thermal paste several times, turned out i wasn't using enough. For gaming (say RDR2, PUBG), remember CPU in the ~75 region. Cinebench r20 would quickly go to 92 and on to thermal throttle. The games are not as taxing for the cpu like cinebench is. Cinebench would be 100% on all 16 threads obviously. Gaming say on average 30% on 12 threads and 15% on remaining 4.

I chose 8 core 16 th mainly because plan to use the CPU a long time (~5 years), and this Zen2 matches the coming PS5 and Xbox so games will be optimized for this in the 'near' future. I feel 6 core will be fine for now, but showing its age in a year when the new consoles and their games are released. Big caveat, its possible not all 8 cores are dedicated for gaming but other background activities (streaming etc), thus possibly only 6 for gaming, which would be parity with the 3600 again.

The 3600 is about half the price of the 3700x in my country. So its much better bang for buck.
 

CaptainBigleux

Caliper Novice
Sep 9, 2019
28
14
This is my prospect so far:
CPU:
Ryzen 7 3700X or 3600
Depends on your budget and real need. I built a ghost last summer, first SFF and long time since last PC, so I wanted to have fun and went for the 3700X. But I'm pretty sure a 3600X (now that the price is more or less the same as the non X) would be enough.

CPU Cooler: Starting with stock cooler, switching to NH12S if thermals need to be adressed.
AMD stock cooler of 3600/3600X is bad, and the 3700X is pretty good but won't fit in the ghost.
You mean L12S ? If you go aircooling, that's the one you're looking for. Bit challenging to fit, but it fits.
I live in carribean, so the room is at +30C all year long. The 3700X stays at 50C at idle, and between 60-70 during gaming.
At the end, the GPU is the main issue. Don't really see the point of AIO or WC the CPU, unless you do intensive jobs/apps thta will really stress the CPU.
At the beginning I had the L9x65, which was easir, more straight forward to instalL. But Mobo temp was higher (L12S expulse heat), and noise quite annoying (fan too close from side panels tiny holes, knida wisthling).

Case: Ghost S1 (Might get a S or M tophat with 2 fans (OR 1fan 1HDD) to further battle thermals if needed)
You have room under the PSU ti fit a slim intake fan. It's way enough.
Top hat are useless, unless you really need to AIO/WC the CPU, and/or fit more storage (the aorus X570i can fit 2 M.2, and the actual prices of M.2 are okish).
I bought a large top hat just in case I would get high temps and wanted to go AIO... but it sleeps in the garage for now.
Also, I prefer the design and the proportion without any top hat.

GPU: Nvidia 3070 or 3060 equivalent depending on price. (I'll be cramming my GTX 980 in there until then)
Up to you if you can wait. Also, with the corona stuff, you may expect some delays in launch and supply ... and in general in prices increase of hardware components.

MOBO: Gigabyte X570 I AORUS Pro
very happy with it.

Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB
Not sure you need 32GB. May be for modelling ?
And as the mobo as 2 slots, you wont have to change everything, you're ready for the future, so why not.

PSU: Corsair SF600
kind advice : get the platinum version. Not really for the performance, the gold is enough. But for the sleeved cables include which makes cable management easier.
 

kmnvhs

Caliper Novice
Feb 14, 2020
21
15
instagram.com
- I use in my build an Apenföhn Blattrige (47mm, 6 heat pipes, 95W tdp) with a Noctua Nf-a12x15 on top and have great results (9600k). It works with your corsair lpx ram.
- if you don't won't to use two nvme ssd's the b450i is a good option. if you want to use dual nvme In the future use an x570 board. at the moment pcie 4.0 doesn't matter for gpu.
- the sf600 is more than enough power for this build - buy the platinum version for the sleeved cables ;)
- if you have the time to wait for the rtx3700 (maybe Q1 2021), but I think a 2060s/2070s is for the next 3 years perfekt for 1080p/high fps gaming. look at some good deals - the prices decrease at the moment.
 

eOwl

Minimal Tinkerer
New User
Feb 12, 2020
3
1
- the sf600 is more than enough power for this build - buy the platinum version for the sleeved cables
SF600 Platinum has shorter 24pin cables than SF750. It's a tight fit with the SF750 cables in Ghost S1. I will be doing custom cables as soon as I get me fund for that.
 
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Andpetr

Cable Smoosher
Feb 19, 2020
11
0
I have the same MB (Aorus X570 I Pro WiFi) with a 3600 in a SFF case (SilverStone Raven RVZ2).

TL;DR: The 3600 is very hot so I suggest to go with the best cooler you can fit in your case.

At first I used a Noctua L9a and temps were really high. At this moment I’m using an Alpenfohn Black Ridge. I had to remove the fan on the bottom because it doesn’t fit with this MB and I placed a Noctua 12x15 on top. Temps are better but still not very good, but in my case I’m bound by a 58mm max cooler clearance.