For help when buying a camera

IntoxicatedPuma

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Feb 26, 2016
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Sometimes I get bored at work and do things I'm not supposed to, like read/listen up on camera stuff. Like many people, I often have regret about the camera system I bought into and feel that maybe I could have gotten something better to make my pictures look even better. So I'll get a couple things out of the way real quick, if you want to improve your photos you should try to improve your technique and learn how to use the camera the best, or learn how to photoshop.

With that out of the way, what's the best camera to buy?

I want to lump sensor size discussion as well as lens selection together, because they are very closely related! I also want to emphasize that they're not quite as important as you may think!

What size sensor: 1inch CX, Micro 4/3, APS-C, Full Frame, or Medium Format?
What brand: Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Sony, Pentax, Samsung (RIP), Olympus, Panasonic, Xiaoyi, Hasselblad?

On one hand, there is a big difference between formats, and yet on the other hand they can all perform remarkably similar. You will often read that “Full Frame” is the end-all be-all of cameras but that’s not exactly accurate. For one, “full frame” and “Crop sensor” is itself misleading. Crop sensors are not a crop of a full frame sensor, they’re sensors of a different size. For example, the Sony A7m2 is a 24MP full frame sensor, so if the A6300 is a “crop sensor” it shouldn’t also be 24MP right? What it does mean, is the A6300 is going to have more pixels packed into a smaller sensor, and will have more detail but also more noise. Depending on what you prefer, the full frame could offer benefits while the A6300 can also offer benefits.

I don’t want to go into too much information about the additional differences among sensor sizes, except to say that if you want a lot of detail you should check out Tony Northrops videos on this:



They’re quite detailed and complicated, but to get the final results of a camera you should apply the crop factor of your camera sensor (with Full Frame = 1.0) by the focal length of the lens you want to buy and the aperture of that lens. Technically, this is not the correct methodology but if you want to find out what the final image will look like, this will help you do It quickly. ISO is also not the same between full frame and other formats, as a smaller sensor is not capable of absorbing as much light as larger ones.

After comparing systems you’ll find a few things:

Smaller format cameras can often get the same “equivalent” aperture as larger format cameras. So getting shallow depth of field is not impossible or even that difficult on smaller format cameras.

Lenses usually end up being about the same size if the “equivalent” is the same. M43 advertises that it gives you smaller lenses. Their logic is that a Panasonic 12-35mm (offers 24-70mm) f/2.8 lens is much smaller than a 24-70mm f/2.8 full frame lens. However you’d need to multiple the aperture by 2 as well (as mentioned in Tony’s videos) which gives you a 24-70 f/5.6 equivalent lens. To compare equivalent results you could compare a Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 with Metabones speed booster, which gives you a 25-50mm f/2.6 equivalent on full frame. This lens will be about the same size and weight as a 24-70mm f/2.8 full frame lens however.

The advantage of Full Frame is generally improved dynamic range, lower ISO setting, and larger pixels. This gives it moderately improved image quality, but don’t think that a full frame will absolutely crush an APS-C or M43 camera even though its sensor is 2-4x larger. Here is another comparison to show: http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2016/...7rii-and-55-1-8-vs-olympus-pen-f-and-25-f1-2/


So what camera should you buy? Well it depends. I think the best thing is to try the cameras you are interested in. To offer an example, the Sony systems usually have the best ratings for modern cameras, but I did not buy Sony because I have difficulty using their menu system, and find the Olympus E-M1 to have generally better ergonomics. Panasonic offers touch screens with a good amount of functionality, and 4K video in most of their cameras. Fuji offers classic control layouts on theirs. Find what is best for you. Also consider what your needs are. Just by having 4K video doesn’t mean the video is automatically superior. A lot more goes into video than just specs, so check out more detailed reviews online, I think you’ll find that the resolution alone does not have a major impact on the video quality.

I think the important things to focus on for a camera, where real difference can be found:

Autofocus performance (Stills and Video AF will not always be the same)
Buffer size and frame rate ( important if shooting sports/action)
Ergonomics, menu, and controls – how is the grip, does the screen fold-out/flip like you want, are the buttons
Dynamic Range for Video and Stills (may not always be the same) - You can see a good comparison of sensors at DxOmark.com
Image stabilization – how does the camera achieve it? Electronic, Lens, Body? How good is it? Max Yuryev on Youtube does a great job of comparing some of the more recent cameras.



Some other things:

What about gimbals?

This is related to the camera you choose. Do you need a gymbal for video work? Possibly. If you have a newer Olympus or Panasonic you will probably find that the in-body image stabilization is good enough for most hand-held video. If you have a Sony or Fuji and plan on doing a run-and-gun video setup, a gymbal would be a good idea. Batteries are also a nice extra accessory, especially on most mirrorless cameras which don’t have the greatest battery life.


What about SD Cards?

Which SD card is also heavily dependent on what camera you have. Simply buying the fastest card won’t give you the fastest speeds. If you have a Panasonic GX85 or Sony A6000, the write speed is limited to around 32-35 mb/s. This means a UHS-2 card would not have any advantage over a UHS-1 card, and most UHS-1 cards will perform about the same. Check out this site for more detailed comparisons of SD cards on various cameras: https://alikgriffin.com/
 
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ZA Design

Trash Compacter
Sep 7, 2016
34
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Why stop at full frame? Medium format is the way to go!

Jokes aside, I'm pretty damn happy with my X-T2, even after looking at many full frame cameras, and the next step up I would consider would be that beautiful medium format Fujifim GFX 50S. Keeping the X-T2 for 4k video however.
 

Arboreal

King of Cable Management
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Oct 11, 2015
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TL;DR because I'm just back home after 2 nights away camping and dinghy sailing - I'm needing to sleep...fast!
I will puts some thoughts down tomorrow.

Interested in cameras and worked in pro photo retail for 17 years through the film to digital transition and beyond...

Quick thought - Fast SD cards definitely allow continuous bursts (esp RAW) to be longer. That said, I'm on UHS 1 and my camera is pre UHS 2. I bought the faster Sandisk for my Nikon D7000, and it is noticeably better than the next one down. More shots before the big gap between shots kicks in.

With that out of the way, what's the best camera to buy? the $1,000,000 question! Horses for Courses and also how a camera feels and works for you and the way you operate.
Many many capable camera micro 4/3 up to full frame, in each class but don't get too carried away by the numbers or sensor sizes...

Let us know what you are wanting to photograph, specific lens needs and preferences or prejudices? No one camera will do it all, but a better compromise can be found, usually by throwing well thought out money at the problem!
 

IntoxicatedPuma

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Feb 26, 2016
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Quick thought - Fast SD cards definitely allow continuous bursts (esp RAW) to be longer. That said, I'm on UHS 1 and my camera is pre UHS 2. I bought the faster Sandisk for my Nikon D7000, and it is noticeably better than the next one down. More shots before the big gap between shots kicks in.

It can if the camera supports the faster speeds. But if your camera only supports up to 30mb/s write - you'd be better off just getting a card that can support at least 30mb/s write than getting some 90mb/s UHS-II card. If you have a UHS-II card reader, you could see benefits when copying the photos off the camera and onto the computer though.
 

stree

Airflow Optimizer
Dec 10, 2016
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I am new to DSLR having always used compacts, but fed up of not being able to see the screen in daylight, so I got a Pentax K50 and very happy with it, and it is weatherproofed.
 

steffen 11

What's an ITX?
Nov 6, 2017
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How much are you prepared to spend? Photography can be a money pit if you want a selection of lenses.

Pretty much any camera body will do what you need, depending on how many frames per sec you may want, the image quality at higher ISO, focus points, and various other functions.

The money is in the lenses and the better the lens, the better the image quality and the more you need to spend.

For aircraft a 70-300 lens will cover most eventualities. Canon do 3 different ones ranging from consumer to "pro" with prices to match.

This may not be enough for animals, though, depending on the animal and how far away it is. I've seen bird photographers with 800mm lenses and 1.4x converters to get photos of birds that aren't that far away, just so they can get the bird to fill the image.

Don't restrict yourself to Canon though, Nikon, Pentax and Sony do good cameras as well.

For reference I've got a Canon T3i/600D and a 6D, and a 300mm f4L and 70-300f4-5.6L lenses for planes, amongst other things, but those may be more than 3x what you want to spend.
 

laughing man

Trash Compacter
Oct 28, 2017
39
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First you should look at cost. Unless you crap gold nuggets you aren't getting a Hasselblad.

I would recommend a high grade full size sensor point and shoot with a zeiss lens. Leica's cheap offerings are trash last I looked. So you are probably looking at Sony. Maybe look at Pentax and see what they have. But DSLR's are stupid. You can't use it if you aren't carrying it. So a point and shoot with a full size sensor and great lowe light capability with an effective macro mode is what I recommend. Probably got so many megapixels these days you don't even need a zoom, just crop the crap.
 

IntoxicatedPuma

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I would recommend a high grade full size sensor point and shoot with a zeiss lens.
I don't want to sound rude but....
Literally the only cameras that fit this description are the Sony RX1R or the Leica Q. The RX1R mk1 is over $2000, the mk2 over 3k, and the Leica over 4k.....
Supposing you did this, yes, you can crop an RX1R mk2 to 1/4 the original size and still have around a 12MP image. That'd be something like a 56mm equivalent. Getting to 110mm equivalent image leaves you with a 3 megapixel image. You could also get something like an RX100 or the new Canon G1X mk3 that are half the price and will still give you 20MP images at 50-70mm. They will need slower shutter speed or higher ISO to get the same brightness as an RX1R but that's not so difficult to work around.

But DSLR's are stupid.

If you don't mind carrying the weight then what's the problem? Canon Dual Pixel AF is one of the best for video C-AF, and they have a huge range of lenses which perform excellently as well as great 3rd party support. They're alot cheaper to buy in than Sony E mount.
 

laughing man

Trash Compacter
Oct 28, 2017
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You won't have it when you need it most. My net is slow now so I cannot look those cameras up, but usually they do have a zoom function. Maybe even replaceable lenses.

You will mind dragging that DSLR around. The point and shoot you can take anywhere.

Only reason to go DSLR is for specific pro tasks. Portraits, animals, macro, etc...

Go with what you will actually use. All the specs mean nothing if you don't have it with you at the moment you need it.
 

jØrd

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First you should look at cost. Unless you crap gold nuggets you aren't getting a Hasselblad.
Or your a professional photographer who makes a living on their tools and is willing to invest the money you make back into those tools. They are expensive but at the end of the day their target market isnt hobbyists in the same way a group A rally car isnt aimed at your average mom and pop doing the grocery run.

You won't have it when you need it most.
You might not but there are plenty of hobbyists, prosumers and professionals who will happily carry around their camera of choice to get that perfect shot

You will mind dragging that DSLR around. The point and shoot you can take anywhere.
There is still a strong point and shoot market!? seems like these days its mostly call phone cameras and dSLR's and the point and shoot market has substantially reduced.

Only reason to go DSLR is for specific pro tasks. Portraits, animals, macro, etc.
Or hobbyists who enjoy the art


I would recommend a high grade full size sensor point and shoot with a zeiss lens.
Zeiss are good, very good but they are a very long way from being the first and last word in lens design and implementation.
 
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Zobeid Zuma

Efficiency Noob
Dec 8, 2017
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With that out of the way, what's the best camera to buy?

Haha! The wars over this question are never-ending over on DPReview. It's practically what that site exists for.

On one hand, there is a big difference between formats, and yet on the other hand they can all perform remarkably similar.

There can be a big difference between formats, but it seems like the ones people argue about the most are Full Frame (135), APS-C, and Micro Four Thirds—which are all close to the same size and perform similarly. The smaller the difference in performance, the more camera geeks want to fight over it.

By way of comparison, three of my favorite cameras are my Pentax Q (1/1.7" sensor), Sony A7 (Full Frame) and Fujifilm GW690 III (6x9cm film). These vary greatly in performance, and each of them fills a different role.

For one, “full frame” and “Crop sensor” is itself misleading. Crop sensors are not a crop of a full frame sensor, they’re sensors of a different size. For example, the Sony A7m2 is a 24MP full frame sensor, so if the A6300 is a “crop sensor” it shouldn’t also be 24MP right?

That's not what it means; it has nothing to do with resolution. What it means is, if you put your old 35mm SLR lens (or a "Full Frame" lens) on your APS-C camera, you'll get a crop of that lens's image circle.

The advantage of Full Frame is generally improved dynamic range, lower ISO setting, and larger pixels. This gives it moderately improved image quality, but don’t think that a full frame will absolutely crush an APS-C or M43 camera even though its sensor is 2-4x larger.

My rule-of-thumb is that you need to double the linear size (or quadruple the area) of a sensor to start seeing noticeable (not dramatic) improvements in image quality. Which means that the difference between Micro Four Thirds and Full Frame is just about noticeable, and APS-C splits that already-small difference. To get an easily obvious improvement in image quality, you should plan on multiplying sensor size by 4 times (and area by 16!). And yes, that's why I have the Fuji 6X9 camera. (Well, that's one reason. Kodak Ektar 100 is another.)

And yet, sensor are so advanced now that even my tiny Pentax Q7 produces very pleasing shots most of the time (distinctly better than a phone), and it's probably my most-used camera. Don't forget that deep focus is an advantage in many shooting situations, and the Q7 has that. It's also one of the few cameras that I (mostly) trust to auto-focus.

Sony systems usually have the best ratings for modern cameras, but I did not buy Sony because I have difficulty using their menu system, and find the Olympus E-M1 to have generally better ergonomics.

Wow. I know the Sony menu system is not great. (Fujifilm is better, and Pentax is way better.) But Olympus… The Olympus menu system is a nightmare. It's like a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.

Fuji offers classic control layouts on theirs.

I learned photography on a 35mm SLR with manual focus and aperture priority. When I saw the Fujifilm X-T1, I immediately wanted it. I wanted those controls like I remembered so fondly from the film days. After finally getting my hands on one, though, it was all the little details that rubbed me the wrong way. I ended up liking the Sony A7's controls and ergonomics better.
 

IntoxicatedPuma

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By way of comparison, three of my favorite cameras are my Pentax Q (1/1.7" sensor), Sony A7 (Full Frame) and Fujifilm GW690 III (6x9cm film). These vary greatly in performance, and each of them fills a different role.

That's more to do with the overall camera package and not strictly because of the sensor. If I owned a E-M1 m2 and put a Sigma 18-35 Art lens, it could serve almost identical function/role to a Fuji Medium format mirrorless with the 32-64mm lens while being very similar in weight, size, focal range, depth of field, and other things.
My meaning that sensor size is not the end all, is that any size sensor can get similar results if the camera is designed for it.

I prefer M43 cameras because of IBIS but I've found actually the cameras and lenses are not any smaller than APSC or Full frame mirror less, so I stick with it strictly because I value the IBIS performance over the slightly better dynamic range of bigger sensor cameras.
 

stree

Airflow Optimizer
Dec 10, 2016
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I have DSLR kit, but often am reluctant to haul it about, especially for spontaneous outings where it may be useful.....weight, bulk and host of "bits" all go against it.
To make up for this, almost 100% sure will be getting a Sony RX100m3 by the end of this month........Having a look and a go with a mark4 in 2 days time, so will see how that goes and decide........Tiny camera with stunning reviews.