Dreaming of a truly SFF (ITX) case for 3950X

[theGryphon]

Hey guys and gals,
I am no gamer (occasional at best), I need CPU power on a daily basis, and I am a sucker for SFF.

Now that 3950X is on its way and AMD seems set on keeping on its footsteps in the next generations, I am eyeing proper SFF cases that can "truly" handle the beast, along with a "decent" GPU.

So far, I haven't found any. Vast majority of cases are made for gamers, putting GPU prowess before CPU, and the ones that has the CPU cooling chops are too large.

So, what do I mean by "truly" handle the 3950X? Well, AMD recommends a 280mm AIO for the dang thing. I surely haven't tested it but maybe a 240mm AIO can also handle it just fine.

And, what is a "decent" GPU? So far I had settled with the LP (<75W) line but I am underwhelmed with NVIDIA's 1650 and AMD's total dismissal of the market. So, in my mind, it's the third-in-line GPU of the NVIDIA generation, or a matching AMD GPU. 2060 (Vanilla, Super, Ti) (WTF NVIDIA) is that, this generation.

The other aspect I'm looking for is portability in a compact backpack. So, no cube-like cases. One dimension should be sufficiently slim.

Is there such a case out there that I'm missing?

 

[Necere]

I think the only layout that would really make sense would be something like the Steam Machine/Node 202/Zaber Sentry layout, except with the GPU replaced with a 240 or 280 rad and both sides ventilated so the air goes straight through. I'm not aware of any cases with such a layout, though perhaps one of the aforementioned cases (or one of the similar ones from Silverstone) could be modded as described. Or maybe one of the new Sliger Console cases?

Edit: sorry, I completely overlooked that you wanted a discrete GPU of some kind (and the 3950x doesn't have integrated graphics). I was thinking the smallest layout that could support high end CPU cooling with no discrete GPU. There's really not much beyond the stuff that's already available - e.g., Ghost S1 w/tophat or one of the Sliger SM cases that supports a rad. Nothing that would fit easily in a backpack though, and I struggle to think of a layout with those requirements that would even make it possible.

 

[dondan]

The big question is noise and what temperatures you like to have. I think AMD recommends a 280AIO because with this option you can cool the CPU also on lower fan speeds, but also a 120 or 240 AIO on higher fan speeds while heavy load "Prime95 s.o." will be able to handle the CPU.

If you have a bigger backpack also the Ncase M1 with 240 AIO and full size GPU will fit. Or you can use a Sentry or A4-SFX with short ITX GPU (up to RTX 2070) with a 120 AIO.

 

[Vlad502]

About Ryzen 9 3950x thermals:

Also helpful is eco mode:

 

[ignsvn]

Ahem. Do you really need 3950x?

 

[k0n]

I would prefer a Heatsink since it has fewer parts. No pump. Only for a tower you would need a cube.

 

[theGryphon]

Ahem. Do you really need 3950x?

Ahem. Irrelevant.
But curious, is it that you are convinced nobody ever needs a 16-core CPU, or do I come across as a person who shouldn't need one, or do you not believe my introductory statement?

I would prefer a Heatsink since it has fewer parts. No pump. Only for a tower you would need a cube.

Generally speaking, I agree. But like you said, that would mean having to use a bulky case, which is a no-go for my usecase. About that video, they ran tests only on a measly 9700K and are coming to a sweeping conclusion. LTT has really become a joke. Not disputing that a Noctua U12A with two powerful fans is a potent cooler but its limits will start to show only when truly pushed by a power-hungry CPU. Further, heat/power/temperature characteristics of a physically tiny chip versus gargantuan chips like 3950X (or Intel HEDT) differ drastically. Hence, their conclusion applies only to what they tested.

All in all, thanks everyone!

I bet 99% of the CPU coolers can keep a 3950X from frying, but most at the expense of some performance. If I understand AMD's auto-(over)clocking, the cooler the CPU is, the more power it lets the CPU sip, resulting in better performance. The relationship is certainly not linear, as power-related limits are also in the picture. Nevertheless, the chip's true potential can be unleashed only by a potent cooler. I'm not even talking about manual overclocking, which further exacerbates the situation.

In any case, a big AIO is the best alternative here because
1) I want to get the best out of a powerful chip. Not shooting for the stars, but still.
2) I want a sufficiently slim (not just small-volume) case for easy transport.

I actually started thinking of a feasible layout after my original post and I think I found one. With a FlexATX PSU, a sufficiently slim, ~9.5lt case is possible with a 280mm-AIO. The layout is quite original actually, and I'm thinking about some novel flexibility built-in. I'm putting together a model and I'll share it here.

FlexATX=noise? Possibly, but that's really not a concern for me. SFX PSU would require adding ~2 more liters of volume (at the same time limiting GPU and AIO choices), which I'm not sure is justified. Depends on who you ask, I suppose... If I remove the GPU and AIO limitations (to make things equal with a FlexATX design), SFX PSU would mean distorting the form factor (and making it a no-go for me) and adding a total of 4 liters = 13.5 liters, which at that point is a pointless case. So, yeah, it would have to use FlexATX...

 

[Kilrah]

Looks like the thermals of the 3950X are better than the 9900K, so my case design (link in signature) would probably work.

 

[Kit]

The 3950x is a weird proposition really as if you're using your pc to earn money via compute power, you'd generally wait for the new Threadripper and buy that.... if you couldn't afford the 3rd gen, then you'd probably go for the 2990wx.... and so on.

I think the reason why you come across as if you don't need one is that you have suggested but haven't detailed the type of work that you'll be doing with it, as objectively the 3900x feels like a better cpu for a SFF light workstation build IMHO as under persistant heavy load the heat would be more manageable/less noise.

All being said, it's your money. So if you want to buy a 3950x then I would recommend the Sliger Designs cases based on what i've read so far they're function over form orientated.

 

[Luke NK]

Optimum Tech uploaded a video today about this CPU in the Ncase


I don't know if it will fit in your backpack, but this shows the 240 aio as a capable cooler for the 3950

 

[Kilrah]

if you're using your pc to earn money via compute power, you'd generally wait for the new Threadripper and buy that.... if you couldn't afford the 3rd gen, then you'd probably go for the 2990wx.... and so on

So you're saying that the 3950X is a bad choice for SFF because of heat, but you recommend a TR that heats up almost twice as much? ?

 

[nycalex]

Ahem. Do you really need 3950x?

Ahem, do we need SFF? specially when matx is dirt cheap?

 

[Kit]

So you're saying that the 3950X is a bad choice for SFF because of heat, but you recommend a TR that heats up almost twice as much? ?

Sorry that wasn't what I meant, I meant that if you need raw cpu compute power to actually earn money then you'd go for a TR build (Not ITX). The first paragraph is more of a general comment on the 3950x as a cpu in the product lineup.

Seems crazy to force a small form factor for super heavy cpu work, if space isnt an issue.

 

[theGryphon]

Come on people! I say I'm looking for a small SFF case for a 3950X build and instead of playing along, some of you are questioning why I should need one, why I didn't justify my need (wth?), why I need an SFF, etc. etc
I mean, seriously, humor me instead of questioning me.

Do I really really need a 3950X? Maybe not. 3900X would serve me quiet well too, but I have a 1800X and I want a serious jump in performance in doing parallelized workflow. Speed saves me time. Feel better?

Do I need an SFF? Did you read my first post. I need a case I can carry back and forth to work without breaking my back and without looking like I'm hauling bodies across the town.

If you go down the path of questioning whether we really need what we have or what we want, we should all go to the countryside and do some farming/herding/fishing. So, please, enough with the questioning.

Anyway, it doesn't seem like there is a case that fits the bill 100%. Ncase M1 is obviously a gorgeous case but I need something slimmer. It's simply too much, as are Sliger's cases.

 

[Kit]

I actually think that it's to help you might the right decision, I think most of us have had buyers regret before and I personally wouldn't wish it on anyone.

This is the internet, people won't know exactly competent/knowledgeable you are or what your real use case/motivation is and by posting publicly you open yourself up to all kinds of people who will interpret the same thing in many different ways (unless you're super clear).

 

[theGryphon]

Yeah, it's the Internet alright.

 

[Alex Atlas]

@theGryphon, I have the same requirements and it's very hard to find a perfect case as most sff cases are optimised for gaming.

A few options I'm considering:

Sidearmd T1 - 9.35L, kind of supports 240mm AIO, but it's been delayed several times already, so nobody knows when it will be available.

Dan A4-SFX + 120mm AIO + MSI RTX 2060 AERO - 7.25L! Not sure it fits. Maybe it's possible to squeeze it in. The official GPU clearance is 173mm, but this card is 175.

Dan A4-SFX + Losercard Mod + 92mm AIO + 25mm fan - requires custom cables and brackets. 3950x won't reach its full potential, but you get so much in such a tiny case. Some people are brave enough to put 9900k in this case with the mod.

Ghost S1 + Large TopHat + 240mm AIO - still smaller than NCASE M1, but it's 11L already.

Sunmilo T03 - 10L. Supports 240mm AIO. Could be hard to order, but some people manage to get one.

 

[Luke NK]

Anyway, it doesn't seem like there is a case that fits the bill 100%. Ncase M1 is obviously a gorgeous case but I need something slimmer. It's simply too much, as are Sliger's cases.

You will have to wait until I share the case I am working on for that. It will take some time but I will eventually share the design and concept if I am not able to produce it myself so others can make it available.

It will be under 10 litters and slim enough to fit in your backpack but that is hardly something new. The best part is it will have better cooling than bigger cases, therefore will be more than capable to deal with the 3950x

 

[ignsvn]

Shoot, I didn't mean to bring the conversation this way.

When I asked whether people really need high-end X CPU, this is usually because to certain degree, we often compromise in SFF. Many people don't really actually need X CPU, and they can compromise by using a slower & less hot Y CPU. This will allow smaller heatsink, for example. Or lower fan noise.

However I understand that there are people who indeed need such high-end CPU. 3D designers, video editors, machine learning etc.. I'll just assume that @theGryphon is one of them.

Which brings me to the next issue: I don't know whether those 10L~ish cases can properly support the required cooling methods for that 3950x.

@theGryphon do keep us updated (or probably in a separate build log thread), I assume there are many others who find it interesting on how to contain that 3950x. Cheers mate.

 

[chx]

1. X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3. Disadvantage: only one M.2 slot. However, there are 10gbps USB ports so in a pinch you can add two more with USB-NVMe enclosures. Will limit your speed to 1gbps -ish but hey that's still double of SATA not to mention the much better random I/O due to NVMEe.
2. The Fractal Design Node 202 fits a 240mm. Barely but it does. https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...fractal-node-202-plex-server-240mm-aio-2.html
3. Visiontek Mini eGFX + RTX 2070 ITX or smaller. Check lengths.

That fits many large enough backpacks but if I were doing this I would be taking a long, long hard look at Magma backpacks, especially the Riot XL. It's one big well padded mofo. It is as big as a carry on sized bag can be. It lists the Vestax VCI-400 as fitting which is 45.7 x 32.8 where the Node 202 is 377 x 330. It's the width that can be a problem, clearly not a problem here. Check with Magma that both fit together before buying the backpack just to make sure. The Visiontek has a big power brick however you don't necessarily need to haul that with you, as https://egpu.io/visiontek-mini-egfx-review-mobility-meets-utility/ mentions it's using a standard 6 pin PCIe plug (which it draws 240W over, tsk, tsk but you will be fine since you are not using the 45W reserved for charging a laptop so you are going over the standard by only a small amount ) so potentially you could, if you so want, run a PCIe 6 pin extension cable out of your chassis. https://cablemod.com/product/cablemod-modflex-6-pin-pci-e-extension-45cm-black/

Because you are carrying multiple boxes , when unpacked the airflow would be much less hindred than if you were carrying a single box. I don't think this setup can be beaten. I also think you might even be able to squeeze a 17" monitor if you were to pick the Riot XL