DAN C4-SFX - old

[Drue]

I really do feel like have audio ports at the front is pretty strange. This is also a very small case, so trying to reach to plug something in the back isn't really a big deal. The case is so small it will most likely be on top of your desk anyway, so what is the point of having those jacks upfront? If you have headphones that you are swapping constantly you most likely already have an external solution already anyway.

 

[theexplainer]

I get your concern about being future proof, but personally, I don't need a port that might be usable in the upcoming years.

to be honest, I thought the same way - but then, within one week, I bought some new things (smartwatch, Smartphone, such things) to replace my old ones - and suddenly everything I got relies on USB-C - it happens pretty fast. - I vote for USB C for sure.

You won't convince me of the USB-C port as a trade-off for front audio in this case.

Front audio always comes with quality degradation tho, for that reason alone I despise front audio.

 

[sverebom]

So back to the dongle argument?

Huh? You will need a cable anyway to connect your mobile/external devices to the front panel. Just buy a "Type-C to <whatever your mobile devices use>" cable and enjoy having a more versatile, practical and smaller connector at the front of your PC.

I for one hope that Dan will ditch the Type-A connectors (bulky and ugly) and the front audio (not a dealbreaker for me, but what's the point when you better connectors on the rear of the case?) and implement one or two Type-C connectors next to the power butt

 

[Rankless]

After a little more consideration, the case would look much better without the screws. Let's ditch them.

The C4-SFX samples will arrive in the next days. Maybe tomorrow. I will be sponsored by Alphacool for wster cooling test hardware and maybe will work on a custom reservoir for custom loops with them. I also made the decision to test a slide in mounting system so you will not have visible screws on the mounting system.

Earlier in the thread, you mentioned a partnership with Alphacool, did anything come of that? There would be little to no need for 2x120mm AIO's if there was a dependable well-fitted modular AIO. This is a design focused small case, there are plenty of trade-offs to make with so little space. I think it would be fine if there was one fewer super niche option, especially if you could point at reasonable alternatives like EK, Alphacool, or custom loop.

P.S. Case feet?

 

[Metroversal]

If I had to chose, I'd pick combo audio jack + (2x) type-c, just like on recent Macbooks.

I understand that front audio sucks and bla bla bla... but people still use it. Better to have it than not to have it.

 

[sandrew]

I have no plans to use 2x120mm AIO and wouldn’t miss it.

I have no plans to use a front audio jack and wouldn’t miss it.

I don’t currently own any usb type C peripherals, but I could imagine a scenario where I would.

 

[RomeoKnight]

Guys, sorry for the question, but I don't care as much about this thread as I care about the real C4-SFX in my hands, and I'm waiting for months: When? Any estimations? I'm using only laptops for years and I'm literally not buying a new desktop until I can have C4-SFX! I can't help myself! I've fallen in love at first sight <3

 

[FAQBytes]

Guys, sorry for the question, but I don't care as much about this thread as I care about the real C4-SFX in my hands, and I'm waiting for months: When? Any estimations? I'm using only laptops for years and I'm literally not buying a new desktop until I can have C4-SFX! I can't help myself! I've fallen in love at first sight <3

Welcome to the waiting club.

Seeing as how the Kickstarter hasn't even been posted yet, and there is still a decent amount of deliberation going on about case design finalization, I think a Q1 2019 release isn't unreasonable if everything were to fall in line, however, as Dan has more than just this case on his plate, Q2 is a more reasonable guess within 1H 2019, if not (hopefully early Q3).

Speaking of, I think we're at the point where "development hell" is beginning to apply with the case release being decently over a year from the original post now, where, provided the core functionality and aesthetics remain the same, people would be happier to have the case in hand with one or two things away from how they would have made it (not going to make everyone happy anyways), than continue to deliberate on what ports, minor aesthetics, and dare I say it... feet, it would have for another year.
Poorly phrased; didn't understand- Dan, I think it's time to start making some executive decisions based on the current design and functionality so that you can get some production prototypes in-hand so that any glaring production issues can be resolved. I trust your judgement on these things, and I hope I'm not coming off too strong. I'm just concerned about the cost-benefit equation of waiting for marginal improvement vs waning interest. (I'm sure the volume of feedback on current issues is pretty adequate as well.)

 

[JDK]

to be honest, I thought the same way - but then, within one week, I bought some new things (smartwatch, Smartphone, such things) to replace my old ones - and suddenly everything I got relies on USB-C - it happens pretty fast. - I vote for USB C for sure.

Again, I already have a phone and tablet with USB-C. They came with USB-A to USB-C connectors though. Both of my smartwatches came with USB-A to Micro-USB. So everything still comes with USB-A cables, despite using USB-C.

Huh? You will need a cable anyway to connect your mobile/external devices to the front panel. Just buy a "Type-C to <whatever your mobile devices use>" cable and enjoy having a more versatile, practical and smaller connector at the front of your PC.

I'd rather use the cables that came with my devices instead of buying separate new ones. Buying new cables or dongles is pretty much the same.

I would even take bets that front audio sees more usage than USB-C (on the computer side).

But as I said, if I am the minority, so be it. No point in further discussion.

 

[schn1tt3r]

Cant believe few people are still wanting audio jacks. Why even bother with a beautiful case when you will run ugly cables in the front instead of hiding the cables routing them through the back? USB C is way more important than headphone jacks. Especially considering any good headset is USB, or if buying high quality ones, you'd plug them to external DACs.

 

[JDK]

Maybe some people need to regularly plug in/out their headphones/headset. Maybe they just use it occasionally. Maybe some people need several audio-outputs and don't want to buy extra splitters or external devices.

People's needs are different. Shocker.

 

[FoskcoRS5]

Cant believe few people are still wanting audio jacks. Why even bother with a beautiful case when you will run ugly cables in the front instead of hiding the cables routing them through the back? USB C is way more important than headphone jacks. Especially considering any good headset is USB, or if buying high quality ones, you'd plug them to external DACs.

 

[Kelly]

You could always use this just incase

 

[Tazpr]

I don't think it has been confirmed at this stage, but will the 1080ti FTW3 be supported in this case? The unibody design had the necessary length, but the C4 seems to be under 300mm supported GPU's which I think limits a decent number of new GPU's as a lot of higher end cards are pushing that length.

I haven't seen any word from @dondan in a little while now so not sure where this project is at, but would at least 300mm GPU support not maximize compatibility with this chassis?

 

[FoskcoRS5]

I don't think it has been confirmed at this stage, but will the 1080ti FTW3 be supported in this case? The unibody design had the necessary length, but the C4 seems to be under 300mm supported GPU's which I think limits a decent number of new GPU's as a lot of higher end cards are pushing that length.

I haven't seen any word from @dondan in a little while now so not sure where this project is at, but would at least 300mm GPU support not maximize compatibility with this chassis?

The AIB 2080 / 2080ti cards won’t fit as they are 2.7 slot height cards.

That EVGA 1080ti FTW3 is 302mm. 7mm longer than the C4 supported length.

 

[bilibili1]

Here's an idea. What if someone create a short fan duct designed to feed the graphics card/radiator with fresh cool air? similar to engine intake designs they have on cars.
Because if I'm not misunderstanding a lot of the issue with current ultra small cases are mainly cooling efficiency right? For example small cases like the a4 and zaber sentry (and c4 looking at these preliminary testing) can benefit a lot if cool air can be properly directed to where it counts and have more air pressure built up inside the case by leaving 1 or 2 air ways for exhaust instead of just have ventilation holes everywhere.

For the ducting, we can have one end attached to the case panel and the other attached to the edge of the fan shroud on the gpu. The end on the panel can be secured by screws but the other end (graphics card side) can be secured with clips that we see everywhere on smartphone mounts. Just clip the ducting bracket onto the outer edges of the gpu fan shroud.

Make the tubing flexible so it can accommodate varying angle and distance from one end to another because some gpus are thicker while others are thinner.

 

[Tazpr]

The AIB 2080 / 2080ti cards won’t fit as they are 2.7 slot height cards.

That EVGA 1080ti FTW3 is 302mm. 7mm longer than the C4 supported length.

I know the current supported length on the 1st page is specified as 295mm, but I wasn't sure if this was fixed, since my A4-SFX supports the FTW3 and it seems strange to have more restrictive support on GPU length when GPU's are only getting longer (MSI Duke is literally longer than the entire case...)

 

[FoskcoRS5]

Here's an idea. What if someone create a short fan duct designed to feed the graphics card/radiator with fresh cool air? similar to engine intake designs they have on cars.
Because if I'm not misunderstanding a lot of the issue with current ultra small cases are mainly cooling efficiency right? For example small cases like the a4 and zaber sentry (and c4 looking at these preliminary testing) can benefit a lot if cool air can be properly directed to where it counts and have more air pressure built up inside the case by leaving 1 or 2 air ways for exhaust instead of just have ventilation holes everywhere.

For the ducting, we can have one end attached to the case panel and the other attached to the edge of the fan shroud on the gpu. The end on the panel can be secured by screws but the other end (graphics card side) can be secured with clips that we see everywhere on smartphone mounts. Just clip the ducting bracket onto the outer edges of the gpu fan shroud.

Make the tubing flexible so it can accommodate varying angle and distance from one end to another because some gpus are thicker while others are thinner.

Preface: please don’t take any of this personal, my intent isn’t too make anyone feel bad.

Spending time to pick apart everything that is impractical here would be too time consuming. People generally don’t go SFF so they can have JayzTwoCentz level of ghetto cooling. There is a trade off.

You’re suggestions would make the C4 cooling solution look much more elegant compared to audio jacks on the front panel.

Now if my main concern was cooling, then I would get a Corsair carbide school bus and then implement your duct work.

 

[REF]

Hey, is there any plan or possibility to mount a 3,5" HDD in the front space?

 

[bilibili1]

Preface: please don’t take any of this personal, my intent isn’t too make anyone feel bad.

Spending time to pick apart everything that is impractical here would be too time consuming. People generally don’t go SFF so they can have JayzTwoCentz level of ghetto cooling. There is a trade off.

You’re suggestions would make the C4 cooling solution look much more elegant compared to audio jacks on the front panel.

Now if my main concern was cooling, then I would get a Corsair carbide school bus and then implement your duct work.

I admit my introduction on the concept is crude. But then again rome wasn't built in a day. With the proper design and manufacturing method, there's no reason that those mini ductings won't look good. Besides, instead of spending time ridiculing my suggestion, I'm sure you could have written a constructive reply with at least 3 or 4 reasons why you think it won't work.

As for how your main concern isn't about cooling. If you mean it, let's just say that really just applies to you. If we look at all the reviews and product introductions regarding these sff cases, not a single one of them doesn't make an effort on the cooling aspect. In fact, I'd wager cooling is one of the key area that dondan is trying to improve with the c4 compared to the a4.

But if you look closely and compare, hell I bet most people will notice this with just a glance: while we are able to cram the system a lot tighter than before, cooling really hasn't changed much among sff cases in the recent years ever since the introduction of ncase m1. In the c4, dondan addresses cpu cooling with a 240mm rad, that's great. But the gpu side is still hot because the lack of air flow inside the case makes using the blower style a necessity so all the exhaust air from the gpu isn't dumped right back into the case itself and also so that the fans aren't recirculating hot air within the case over and over.

Now what if we use a duct for the gpu and revise the case design so that the opposite side of the cpu rad can be made the case exhaust side with ventilation holes only (eg. if rad is on bottom then exhaust side is top, vice versa) , while also making the rad fans push air inside the case?

• we can fully utilize the superior cooling efficiency of aftermarket cards.
• by making the rad and the gpu pushing air inside the case and limiting air to exhaust in one specific area instead of 360 degrees all around, we improve overall airflow inside the case, a lot (more positive air pressure). I suspect other components like ram, motherboard, SSDs, HDs, and what have you that are somewhat sensitive to heat will be a lot cooler. Not to mention the gpu fans won't have to work as hard under low to medium load, which leads to less noise.
• AIO cooler for gpu doesn't make economic sense. the ducting implementation will be a lot cheaper and making gpu aio solutions a luxury item at best.

Pray tell, what am I missing here? I'm genuinely curious.