DAN C4-SFX - Update 04.02.2021

SFF Watercooled

Master of Cramming
Sep 26, 2020
389
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Regarding #2 - There is an option already for that, the LinusHole PSU position...

But it is more for the use of the Epyc mobo in the chassis, with the side benefit of allowing two slim fans for intake / exhaust (depending on normal or inverted orientation of the chassis)...

I, personally, do not like the idea of cluttering up what is already a small area in the system with more cables (two cables per drive), and I feel M.2 drives are The Solution for storage in a SFF chassis...!

Added clarification at the end of #2 in my post. Also, it's just for people who want more storage options. Probably not including you, because you love M.2 so much and don't need a lot of storage.

Plus, @dondan could only implement a few of them, like #1 and #2. #3 and #4 will be pretty weird and a little hard to design, and also drive up temperatures. #5 and #6 are just not very feasible but they may be good ideas.

Cables? I mean sure, you have a few extra cables, but they can easily be concealed by good cable management. Plus, it's hard to cable manage with SFF anyway, so adding in a few more drives wouldn't affect the airflow/aesthetics much.
 
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Boil

SFF Guru
Nov 11, 2015
1,232
1,074
Added clarification at the end of #2 in my post. Also, it's just for people who want more storage options. Probably not including you, because you love M.2 so much and don't need a lot of storage.

First, your ragging me for liking M.2 SSDs comes off as a bit antagonistic...? I do not feel wrong for saying M.2 drives are a boon for SFF...

The two M.2 drives I have are each 1TB, so that is a decent amount of storage; but if I needed to, I could go up to 4TB (still keeping PCIe Gen4 capabilities), or drop down to PCIe Gen3 and swap in a pair of 8TB M.2 drives...

Yes, those size drives would be expensive, but so are 4TB & 8TB 2.5" SSDs...!

And 2.5" HDDs are slower, hotter, & louder than any SSD; 2.5" or M.2 variant...

Plus, @dondan could only implement a few of them, like #1 and #2. #3 and #4 will be pretty weird and a little hard to design, and also drive up temperatures. #5 and #6 are just not very feasible but they may be good ideas.

RE: #2 solution:

Moving the PSU down (and having the same cable issues as one would have with a SFX-L PSU) might give room for a 2.5" SSD / HDD, but then you have the drive blocking the exhaust of the PSU...

The specs say a single 2.5" SSD / HDD can fit behind the front panel; if this means a 15mm HDD can fit, then one could use the "Drive Stacker" pieces like come with the NCASE M1 for a total of two drives behind the front panel, as long as they are the slimmer 7mm variant SSDs...?

Cables? I mean sure, you have a few extra cables, but they can easily be concealed by good cable management. Plus, it's hard to cable manage with SFF anyway, so adding in a few more drives wouldn't affect the airflow/aesthetics much.

Cable management is kind of a joke sometimes with SFF cases... Virtually none have a dedicated cable management area, mainly because no one wants to increase volume for such an area...!

But I personally feel that keeping the interior "empty space" of a SFF chassis clean of cabling / obstructions helps reduce internal air turbulence and promote better overall temps...!?!
 
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ignsvn

By Toutatis!
Moderator
Apr 4, 2016
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To me it's not about the price of M2 vs SSD. Never about that.

I'm not sure it's a wise idea to bring my OS in an external drive. They'll be in the case most of the time, and only be removed when there's a need.

Currently using 2 x 2.5" drives in my 6.7L MI-6. Cable management is not great, but obviously doable & not a reason to stop using 2.5" drives.

X299E-ITX/ac is a good found - didn't know there's one supporting 3. But yeah again it's M.2 and Intel.

Regarding side frame attachment - There are many who are OK with sacrificing a little bit of airflow & temp, to have extra storage. Again, that part is designed to be multi functional. So why stop at fans & radiator? 😁
 

Retrias

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Sep 28, 2018
106
50
Its not about the price per drive no ? Its storage density
lets say you have a motherboard that can hold 3 m.2, and lets say the most economical solution is to use 1tb each, a case that can do 1 2.5 ssd would have 3 tb right ? A case that can do 2 2.5 ssd would have 4 tb right out of the gate.

dont get me wrong I am still interested in the case and would be ok with 1 x 2.5 but I get what he is asking about, and not everyone want to do external solution
 
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Aluminyum

Average Stuffer
May 3, 2019
75
85
Honestly I'm always annoyed at how much space some ITX cases waste on room for drives when M.2 is such a better solution for ITX cases. I get having room for one because they're cheaper, but this is not a case oriented towards people who want to build a NAS.
Who would win?

A large, heavy, loud, and expensive glorified HDD holder that needs its own power supply...

Or one 0.049L SATA boi?
 

SFF Watercooled

Master of Cramming
Sep 26, 2020
389
162
First, your ragging me for liking M.2 SSDs comes off as a bit antagonistic...? I do not feel wrong for saying M.2 drives are a boon for SFF...
Sorry if it came out a little rude. I didn't intend it to be. I mean, more SSDs would just be another good option. I actually meant people who want to spend a little less on SSDs and people who want a lot more storage. Sorry if it seemed antagonistic to you.
 
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dondan

SFF Guru
Original poster
DAN Cases
Feb 23, 2015
1,315
4,948
After further staring at a few of the renders posted above, I can see where the stock internal power lead extension will fit either regular of LinusHole postions without any issues...?
LinusHole stand-offs should be included with the chassis (in black if possible), to provide the most modularity possible...!
The cable in rendering is not the correct length it will be 400mm
Stand-offs will be included.


A ~12L case but only supports 1 x 2.5" drive is quite.. surprising.
Is it because there's no other possible location, or.. ?
There would be three possible positions: Front, Bottom and above PSU (like N200)
Front: Only one spot. A second spot will reduce stiffness of the case
Bottom: Still possible by DIY but not as designed because reduce GPU compatibility
Above PSU: Not possible in the C4 because of tube routing of the side mounted AIO


You're right. I'm sure there are plenty of unofficial places to mount drives…
Yes but not official supported.

@ALL SSD/HDD Question:
The most ITX boards does support 2* M.2 drives. Currently the best price/values size is 1TB. So this will result in 2TB fast SSD storage. Now you can add another cheap 2TB SSD at the front. This will result in a total storage size of 4TB. I think more than enough. If you need more just invest more in bigger SSDs like 3*2TB or 3*4TB s.o.
 

jamescarter117

Cable Smoosher
Mar 2, 2020
11
5
@ALL: This is for all the silent readers out there. Please use the like or dislike function to give me a better feeling about the interest rate in this thread.

I totally understand that there are many readers that don't want to write in this thread but by using the like or dislike feature you can help me a lot.

PS: Some requested a updated first post with all the prototype pictures. I made an update to the second post of this thread:

Thank you :)
Hey man,
Firstly, a mad respect to your enthusiasm. Your work truly is the spearhead of the community. I'm just a newbie, dipping my toe in this hobby but your name and your product was resonated in so many channels, reviews, recommendation post.....
Secondly, please keep the updates coming, and make this case happen. You make it, and we will buy it.
 

Boil

SFF Guru
Nov 11, 2015
1,232
1,074
M.2 has less storage, less available slots, and is more expensive, but it is a lot faster and takes up less space. They both have their good parts and bad parts, so it's not really a "master race".

MASTER RACE...!!! 5 years from now, 16TB M.2 NVMe PCIe Gen5 SSD for 300 bucks...!?! ;^P
 

Boil

SFF Guru
Nov 11, 2015
1,232
1,074
MASTER RACE...!!! 5 years from now, 16TB M.2 NVMe PCIe Gen5 SSD for 300 bucks...!?! ;^P

MASTER RACE...!!! 5 years from now, 32TB SATA 24 GB/S SSD for 200 bucks...!?! ;^P

So you want a slower interface, a larger physical drive, and two extra cables in your system; all for twice the capacity & a 33% price drop...? Pass...

M.2 NVMe SSD, there can be only one...!!! ;^p
 

SFF Watercooled

Master of Cramming
Sep 26, 2020
389
162
So you want a slower interface, a larger physical drive, and two extra cables in your system; all for twice the capacity & a 33% price drop...? Pass...

M.2 NVMe SSD, there can be only one...!!! ;^p
Double storage, plus you can spend $100 more on other components, so don't think of it as 33%. 2 extra cables, c'mon. I don't know why you're so annoyed at "2 extra cables". It's not like it will affect cable management or airflow or anything. Also, the "slower interface" does not really show up in normal tests. M.2 only is faster in limited use cases, so 2.5" SSDs are only around 10% slower in normal use cases. Well, a "larger physical drive" is worth it if the case supports it. I mean, nowadays even the smallest cases support at least 1 2.5" drive, while there can only be 1 or 2 M.2 drive depending on your motherboard in any case you choose. So, your statement of "So you want a slower interface, a larger physical drive, and two extra cables in your system; all for twice the capacity & a 33% price drop...? Pass..." is totally wrong.