Crypto Mining and impact on the PC market

Solo

King of Cable Management
Original poster
Nov 18, 2017
859
1,431
Looked at graphics cards online. Again.

Fuck these cryptocurrency mining, basement dwelling neckbeard assholes driving up prices and fingerbanging all of us. Get a life, you worthless, talentless, genital warts of society. Oh my G O D.
 

tinyitx

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 25, 2018
2,279
2,338
Looked at graphics cards online. Again.

Fuck these cryptocurrency mining, basement dwelling neckbeard assholes driving up prices and fingerbanging all of us. Get a life, you worthless, talentless, genital warts of society. Oh my G O D.
I am more fortunate than you. Locally, cards are available fairly good. But the prices are jacked up much higher.
Eg I bought a 3070 in Nov. Now, the same card costs 20% more.
 

Kommando

Average Stuffer
Dec 19, 2020
78
54
Looked at graphics cards online. Again.

Fuck these cryptocurrency mining, basement dwelling neckbeard assholes driving up prices and fingerbanging all of us. Get a life, you worthless, talentless, genital warts of society. Oh my G O D.
I totally understand that frustration and i hate the circumstances just as much. But they aren't dwelling in the basement, they're letting bots do the work. It's supposedly the guys who want to buy normally who sit in their basement, waiting for the perfect price to appear. 😉
 
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Revenant

Christopher Moine - Senior Editor SFF.N
Revenant Tech
SFFn Staff
Apr 21, 2017
1,674
2,708
Looked at graphics cards online. Again.

Fuck these cryptocurrency mining, basement dwelling neckbeard assholes driving up prices and fingerbanging all of us. Get a life, you worthless, talentless, genital warts of society. Oh my G O D.

I wish it was just basement Neckbeards. Crypto farms are the problem. They are run by a range of groups from successful early minors to organized crime.
 

tinyitx

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 25, 2018
2,279
2,338
Can someone explain in layman terms what exactly are the miners mining?

Surely, the whatever 'problem' being solved by so much computing power cannot be a meaningless and random pursuit? If so, the waste would be the mother of all waste.
And, it better is not about hacking the nuclear launch code of a country.

So, it better has to do with something beneficial for mankind (similar to folding@home).
Say, is it cracking something about a cure for cancer?
 

Valantar

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 20, 2018
2,201
2,225
Can someone explain in layman terms what exactly are the miners mining?

Surely, the whatever 'problem' being solved by so much computing power cannot be a meaningless and random pursuit? If so, the waste would be the mother of all waste.
And, it better is not about hacking the nuclear launch code of a country.

So, it better has to do with something beneficial for mankind (similar to folding@home).
Say, is it cracking something about a cure for cancer?
It is utterly, completely meaningless. The thing that is "mined" is a proof of work, i.e. what is done is calculating the necessary data to prove that you have done a specific amount of calculations. It's ridiculous. And utterly, absurdly stupid. Of course the evangelists will tell you that crypto (or at least blockchain tech) will somehow save the world, yet for now the amount of real-world examples of actually useful uses for it is very close to zero. Most experiments for using blockchain for payment security or similar things have long since been abandoned - it's a system fundamentally designed around being complex and work-intensive in order to produce a traceable and unique result, so it's pretty much a given that finding useful implementations where the workload isn't a problem will be very difficult (if not impossible).

All cryptocurrency is is an "investment vehicle", i.e. something to gamble on for rich people. The only "value" it has is that its difficult to "produce", but of course people will say it's democratic because it can be mined with regular consumer hardware, which is... just nonsense. It just means that a slightly different group than normal gets to take part in the "please don't call it gambling"-fest that is international finance. Oh, and it enables money laundering and crime on a massive scale, of course.
 

tinyitx

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 25, 2018
2,279
2,338
It is utterly, completely meaningless. The thing that is "mined" is a proof of work, i.e. what is done is calculating the necessary data to prove that you have done a specific amount of calculations. It's ridiculous. And utterly, absurdly stupid. Of course the evangelists will tell you that crypto (or at least blockchain tech) will somehow save the world, yet for now the amount of real-world examples of actually useful uses for it is very close to zero. Most experiments for using blockchain for payment security or similar things have long since been abandoned - it's a system fundamentally designed around being complex and work-intensive in order to produce a traceable and unique result, so it's pretty much a given that finding useful implementations where the workload isn't a problem will be very difficult (if not impossible).
Who or what organization is behind this mining madness?
If mining could only or mainly be done by GPUs, then it looks like Nvidia/AMD receive the most benefit. Are they behind it?

And, how does the 'controlling organization/big brother' know if the calculation done by my array of cards is correct so that they can give me a little bit of a coin? I mean, my calculation submitted has to be checked against a 'model answer' (presumably done by a super super computer already), right?

This whole mining thing is just so bizarre.
 

ignsvn

By Toutatis!
SFFn Staff
Apr 4, 2016
1,711
1,650
Who or what organization is behind this mining madness?
If mining could only or mainly be done by GPUs, then it looks like Nvidia/AMD receive the most benefit. Are they behind it?

And, how does the 'controlling organization/big brother' know if the calculation done by my array of cards is correct so that they can give me a little bit of a coin? I mean, my calculation submitted has to be checked against a 'model answer' (presumably done by a super super computer already), right?

This whole mining thing is just so bizarre.

Can be anyone with significant resource.

Cryptocurrency may incur loss as well (or stagnant investment), so not sure whether Nvidia & AMD are willing to go that direction.

I'm not an expert in crypto stuff but if I remember correctly it's not about 1 + 3 = 4 and then check this 4 against a central server, but more like a one-way operation.
 
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Revenant

Christopher Moine - Senior Editor SFF.N
Revenant Tech
SFFn Staff
Apr 21, 2017
1,674
2,708
Can be anyone with significant resource.

Cryptocurrency may incur loss as well (or stagnant investment), so not sure whether Nvidia & AMD are willing to go that direction.

I'm not an expert in crypto stuff but if I remember correctly it's not about 1 + 3 = 4 and then check this 4 against a central server, but more like a one-way operation.

Losses. I’ve met a lot of people who had losses. Some were inexperienced investors. Some decided to get into mining only to loose money on equipment. I’ve never personally known anyone IRL that has made money in Crypto. I see tons of success stories online, but I never see the payout with my own eyes.
 

Valantar

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 20, 2018
2,201
2,225
Losses. I’ve met a lot of people who had losses. Some were inexperienced investors. Some decided to get into mining only to loose money on equipment. I’ve never personally known anyone IRL that has made money in Crypto. I see tons of success stories online, but I never see the payout with my own eyes.
Almost as if this is just yet another get rich quick-scheme that only works for a select few, but gets hyped due to the success stories spreading easily? Who'd've thunk it?

Who or what organization is behind this mining madness?
If mining could only or mainly be done by GPUs, then it looks like Nvidia/AMD receive the most benefit. Are they behind it?

And, how does the 'controlling organization/big brother' know if the calculation done by my array of cards is correct so that they can give me a little bit of a coin? I mean, my calculation submitted has to be checked against a 'model answer' (presumably done by a super super computer already), right?

This whole mining thing is just so bizarre.
There's no real "oragnization" behind. The various coins are regulated by whatever body "owns" them (and thus has power to change the hashing algorithms, change how mining difficulty rises, etc), but nobody has control over the output beyond "anyone linked to our system gets a reward based on the amount of work they feed into the system". That's where the illusion of this being democratic comes from, I guess. They can still change the algorithms dramatically or increase mining difficulty - which has been done previously (scheduled and notified well beforehand IIRC) to avoid inflation and so on. The whole "how do they know when I am supposed to get something back" is from what I understand the new thing about blockchain, that it creates an unreproducible but traceable and unique proof of work. So it's built into the system, so to speak. There's no model answer, as the entire point is that the only way to get a result is to do the work, and each proof of work is unique. I have no idea how it really works, but then I don't see enough of a point to this whole thing to care enough to look into it either.

It's far easier understanding how this has value at all, and isn't just seen as pissing into the wind: because as with any financial investment target, its value is fundamentally abstracted, and solely defined by "market trust". I.e. if the gamblers on Wall Street feel like it's still worth something, they won't start selling, so it keeps its value, and if they feel its worth buying, the value will rise. The obvious downside to this is that investors are an extremely irrational and unpredictable bunch, and are prone to mass panics, so things tend to come crashing down at some point. Of course if lots of trading is done by people with a lot of money bound up in this and no real way out, such as organized crime, then that will prevent most catastrophic crashes simply because they won't join in on the panic selling.

So there are no organizations behind it, but once people started seeing this as something they could gamble on to make money, a lot of big players suddenly put a lot of money into it. So the system is held up by a lot of big players, though none of them have any control of how the system works beyond trade and value.
 
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Skripka

Cat-Dog Perch Manager
May 18, 2020
443
544
Who or what organization is behind this mining madness?
If mining could only or mainly be done by GPUs, then it looks like Nvidia/AMD receive the most benefit. Are they behind it?

And, how does the 'controlling organization/big brother' know if the calculation done by my array of cards is correct so that they can give me a little bit of a coin? I mean, my calculation submitted has to be checked against a 'model answer' (presumably done by a super super computer already), right?

This whole mining thing is just so bizarre.

'Mining' has become so computationally demanding, that it takes a massive spike in prices to make it worth it for consumers. Otherwise Joe Smith cannot 'make money' doing it. So who does? Corporations with server farms running dozens or hundreds of GPUs.

The most stark example is happening in Africa. A continent where over half the country doesn't even have running water or power.....Morocco is building a 900MW windfarm for crypto mining:


TBH, I'd be less hostile to all of this. If all the distributed hashing for crypto literally did ANYTHING for humanity beyond wasting power. Take BOINC or Folding@Home; yea they use power but you're doing science and helping research projects. Crypoto 'mining' is literally a waste of power. Which, if you live in the central USA with rolling brownouts right now (or Texas, with its own ruggedly independent power grid, that has collapsed under strain)--is a bad thing. NVM greenhouse gas emissions from needing to generate power for mining.


For those curious.....Yesterday at home working; my sig rig used 3.45kWhr of power (per my UPS) that created 2.35kg of CO2 (based on CO2 per kWhr rates from my utility). And if you look, no, my sig is NOT that powerful.
 
Last edited:

tinyitx

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 25, 2018
2,279
2,338
Almost as if this is just yet another get rich quick-scheme that only works for a select few, but gets hyped due to the success stories spreading easily? Who'd've thunk it?


There's no real "oragnization" behind. The various coins are regulated by whatever body "owns" them (and thus has power to change the hashing algorithms, change how mining difficulty rises, etc), but nobody has control over the output beyond "anyone linked to our system gets a reward based on the amount of work they feed into the system". That's where the illusion of this being democratic comes from, I guess. They can still change the algorithms dramatically or increase mining difficulty - which has been done previously (scheduled and notified well beforehand IIRC) to avoid inflation and so on. The whole "how do they know when I am supposed to get something back" is from what I understand the new thing about blockchain, that it creates an unreproducible but traceable and unique proof of work. So it's built into the system, so to speak. There's no model answer, as the entire point is that the only way to get a result is to do the work, and each proof of work is unique. I have no idea how it really works, but then I don't see enough of a point to this whole thing to care enough to look into it either.

It's far easier understanding how this has value at all, and isn't just seen as pissing into the wind: because as with any financial investment target, its value is fundamentally abstracted, and solely defined by "market trust". I.e. if the gamblers on Wall Street feel like it's still worth something, they won't start selling, so it keeps its value, and if they feel its worth buying, the value will rise. The obvious downside to this is that investors are an extremely irrational and unpredictable bunch, and are prone to mass panics, so things tend to come crashing down at some point. Of course if lots of trading is done by people with a lot of money bound up in this and no real way out, such as organized crime, then that will prevent most catastrophic crashes simply because they won't join in on the panic selling.

So there are no organizations behind it, but once people started seeing this as something they could gamble on to make money, a lot of big players suddenly put a lot of money into it. So the system is held up by a lot of big players, though none of them have any control of how the system works beyond trade and value.
This mining thing still looks like the mother of all scam to me...lol
 
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Skripka

Cat-Dog Perch Manager
May 18, 2020
443
544
This mining thing still looks like the mother of all scam to me...lol

Not a 'scam'....but it is far less 'currency' (as in 'cryptocurrency') in how humans use, so much as it is the equivalent of Wall Street commodities gambling--except far more volatile. And, ofc, commodities gambling is based on the price of actual physical commodities. To summarize the summary of the summary, 'people are a problem'.
 

Valantar

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 20, 2018
2,201
2,225
No it makes it double off-topic :p
Ah, I get it. Off-topic². That's so off-topic it almost hurts. One might say it's so off-topic it spontaneously spawns its own topic ;)

There's a pretty big thread of people venting about this over on TechPowerUp, seems like the frustration is pretty universal. I certainly wouldn't mind another crypto crash. Guess it'll happen whenever the investors start stampeding again. They're cyclical beasts, those investors, though it's hard to suss out the basis of their migrations and herd dynamics.
 
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