Common SFF Layout Types

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
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KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
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While I think it is a valuable and worthwhile endeavour to make sure we discourage plagiarism in our community, I think it is also necessary to acknowledge there are three or four reasonable ways to lay out standard hardware in an enclosure. While I think that Dan's A4 case was definitely a big step forward with respect to small form factor enclosure design, I also think a certain amount of his success came from him being the first to find a market that would pay ~100 USD for a 3M riser to make such a case a reality (ie. I wouldn't be surprised to find that some major OEMs had come up with the design previously and abandoned it because of riser cost - it is not an unobvious configuration).

I think a constructive way of managing this sort of thing is the future might be to have a master sticky thread at the top of the "Custom Case Builds" forum that is effectively an authoritative list of all community projects with each of the major layouts. In said list we could subdivide all projects by layout type. As an example:

- Direct plug to PCIe slot (ie. NCase M1)
- PCIe riser with motherboard and GPU in line (ie. NFC S4M)
- PCIe riser with motherboard and GPU back to back (ie. Dan A4 SFX)
- Other

Once this standard was established, it would be required for all creators choose the requisite layout type. People accessing the forum would be able to refer to the master list and see all cases organized chronologically for a given layout. This would serve both to act as a history of sorts so that originators would receive the credit they were due as well as providing potential buyers a very clear way to compare and contrast the cases available in their desired configuration. Just my two cents, but I think we need to do something to keep this from being an ongoing issue that acts to divide our community and potentially scare away new creators.
 
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AlexTzone

I design minimalistic – but not boring – PC stuff
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Tha
While I think it is a valuable and worthwhile endeavour to make sure we discourage plagiarism in our community, I think it is also necessary to acknowledge there are three or four reasonable ways to lay out standard hardware in an enclosure. While I think that Dan's A4 case was definitely a big step forward in design with respect to small form factor enclosure design, I also think a certain amount of his success came from him being the first to find a market that would pay ~100 USD for a 3M riser to make such a case a reality (ie. I wouldn't be surprised to find that some major OEMs had come up with the design previously and abandoned it because of riser cost - it is not an unobvious configuration).

I think a constructive way of managing this sort of thing is the future might be to have a master sticky thread at the top of the "Custom Case Builds" forum that is effectively an authoritative list of all community projects with each of the major layouts. In said list we could subdivide all projects by layout type. As an example:

- Direct plug to PCIe slot (ie. NCase M1)
- PCIe riser with motherboard and GPU in line (ie. NFC S4M)
- PCIe riser with motherboard and GPU back to back (ie. Dan A4 SFX)
- Other

Once this standard was established, it would be required for all creators choose the requisite layout type. People accessing the forum would be able to refer to the master list and see all cases organized chronologically for a given layout. This would serve both to act as a history of sorts so that originators would receive the credit they were due as well as providing potential buyers a very clear way to compare and contrast the cases available in their desired configuration. Just my two cents, but I think we need to do something to keep this from being an ongoing issue that acts to divide our community and potentially scare away new creators.
That’s actually a very good idea!
 

theGryphon

Airflow Optimizer
Jun 15, 2015
299
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To @AlexTzone and the Mjolnir team.

I have some harsh things to say, and I hope that you and our community can read them and understand that I seek to heal a wound rather than to open one--but it is going to be a painful process.

You credited your whole team, but make no mention of the man who designed the foundation of your chassis.

This is *just* yet another Dan clone. Let those words sink in.

All the nice updates you made, the quality you brag about, your pretty website, but your renders just represent a clone. I would be ashamed of myself if I claimed to have the "worlds most premium" case, list my whole team brag about their their college degrees, and ask for money on kickstarter but all I had was a series of nice renders based on stolen ideas.

I'm not saying you and your team doesn't have talent. Obviously you do. I'm not saying that you haven't made beautiful, meaningful updates to Dan's chassis. Again, you have. It's just a pity that you spent all this talent, time, and money to grab and claw at someone else's livelyhood--without even crediting them!!!!!

So here is a checklist for earning my respect and some of the good people on this forum:
  • CREDIT your sources and honor those whose shoulders you stand on.
  • Prove you can make this to the quality you brag about before grabbing at people's money. A drawing is not a mass produced product.
  • Earn the titles and honors you award yourself.
From this post you might think I'm at emnity with you. I'm not. I want to see beautiful, amazing things from you and your team team. I believe in same things you say inspire you: quality, excellent design, beautiful craftsmanship, and most importantly, integrity. I would love to help you, support you, and defend you. I love peace, but peace is an active virtue. Yes, sometimes it means knowing when to be passive, but most other times it means stepping into the fire to set things right.

Please, be a part of this family. Don't use us.

Sincerely,

Josh


Josh, I know you're extremely sensitive about IP protection but this is not how you go about it man.

Dan deserves credit for a lot of things, primarily designing a case around an unconventional design and seeing it through as a commercial success, but Dan was hardly the first person to think of this case layout. As far as "I" know (there might be earlier implementations even), a Russian guy over at overclock.net designed and built a case (for himself) around this same layout, at least a few (possibly several) years before Dan showed up at [H] forum. I looked for a link but couldn't before posting this, but will post the link as well as soon as I find it. So, yeah, Dan deserves a ton of credit but not for the layout itself. I believe his brand is already getting more recognition than he had hoped for; this layout, albeit not his "invention", is widely credited to him and most people think of Dan cases when they see another case with this layout (and he deserves this recognition because he really is the first person to successfully commercialize this layout).

As case designs go, I believe claiming IP on layout is like Apple claiming IP on round-rectangular phone design: there is just so many meaningful ways one can put together 3 main components: motherboard, GPU and PSU. What is more essential and worthy of claiming IP over is how it all comes together. The design of the structural components and how they come together, the airflow design and outer (rather aesthetic) design. From what I can tell, Alex & Co. here did not take any of that from Dan A4.

If we go with your mindset Josh, there are now so many cases with the same internal layout, commonly known as "console-style", including your own, that probably nobody knows who came up with the layout first. And, can anybody care less?

So, please everyone, think twice before accusing somebody else for idea theft. Please have that judgement of differentiating between a cheap copy that reeks of it and a thought-through retake/redesign around the same component layout as another.




EDIT: (Total tongue-in-cheek) Maybe I should claim IP for Dan's C4, as I came up with that layout first:
https://hardforum.com/threads/new-unconventional-mitx-case-idea.1813001/
Not implemented in any form but still :p

You see, I really don't feel like I deserve any credit here. Not only I believe Dan wasn't even aware of it, the layout itself is not what makes it so valuable. As I told Dan in his thread that I'm just happy to see this layout getting form: for me it's a confirmation that it was a solid idea (that I once had but never had the time or resources to see through) :)

EDIT: I found the link to that case build log (you know, Dan A4 layout before Dan A4). Turns out it's not that old, only 2012: http://www.overclock.net/forum/50-small-form-factor-systems/1256109-build-log-velociraptor.html
Pic links are dead now but the guy's Youtube channel is live: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCISFO7LfMMZYrmu3WaHs3JA
Googling "build log velociraptor" gives you some cached pic results...

Edit: LOL, I just noticed the very last post on that thread :D
 

theGryphon

Airflow Optimizer
Jun 15, 2015
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AlexTzone

I design minimalistic – but not boring – PC stuff
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I found the link to that case build log (you know, Dan A4 layout before Dan A4). Turns out it's not that old, only 2012: http://www.overclock.net/forum/50-small-form-factor-systems/1256109-build-log-velociraptor.html
Pic links are dead now but the guy's Youtube channel is live: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCISFO7LfMMZYrmu3WaHs3JA
Googling "build log velociraptor" gives you some cached pic results...

EDIT: LOL, I just noticed the very last post on that thread :D

Woah that really interesting!

If people here want, we can post some simulated proof of optimal layout in such an enclosure :thumb: Perhaps it can function as evidence that mathematics / rules of our universe invented the layout originally XD
 

KSliger

King of Cable Management
Sliger Designs
May 8, 2015
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- Direct plug to PCIe slot (ie. NCase M1)
- PCIe riser with motherboard and GPU in line (ie. NFC S4M)
- PCIe riser with motherboard and GPU back to back (ie. Dan A4 SFX)
- Other

Good idea, but any identification would need to be neutral in naming, not per an existing case; I refuse to flag my designs as based on another companies.

Perhaps using something like Above MB, Behind MB, Standard Slot, Bifurcation, Other, etc?
 
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Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
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KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
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Good idea, but any identification would need to be neutral in naming, not per an existing case; I refuse to flag my designs as based on another companies.

Perhaps using something like Above MB, Behind MB, Standard Slot, Bifurcation, Other, etc?

What you wrote is what I was trying to say. I just did the examples so people knew what I was talking about with respect to the terms I was using. I do think a proper nomenclature on design would be helpful here.
 
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Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
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KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
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Thinking something like this. Perhaps stupid?

M || G (Motherboard || GPU ie. Dan A4)
M = G (Motherboard = GPU ie. S4M)
M L G (Motherboard L GPU ie. NCase M1)

Could also be denoted MIG, MEG, MLG?
 
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Biowarejak

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I like this idea, @Kmpkt. I feel like some level of standardization would go a long way for the community :)
 

Damascus

Master of Cramming
Feb 27, 2018
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I kind of like this, before I knew the s4m even existed I had wanted to make a similar, flat style design - just didn't have the experience to follow through. Having a distinction like this would allow for new takes on the designs to be made very easy to contrast with the progenitors of its class.
 

|||

King of Cable Management
Sep 26, 2015
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Thinking something like this. Perhaps stupid?

M || G (Motherboard || GPU ie. Dan A4)
M = G (Motherboard = GPU ie. S4M)
M L G (Motherboard L GPU ie. NCase M1)

Could also be denoted MIG, MEG, MLG?

Might there be a desire to differentiate between fans for CPU and GPU facing opposite directs (e.g. S4M) and fans facing a common direction (e.g. S3 Mini and PIOs (and here))?
 

Necere

Shrink Ray Wielder
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Feb 22, 2015
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I kind of like this idea, though the ideal approach in my mind would be small icons appended to the post title that more accurately illustrate each layout type, plus a descriptive "tool tip" on mouseover.

FWIW, I generally refer to these layouts with the following terms:
- Conventional
- Back-to-back (or front-to-back, like the C4)
- Inline or in-plane

I would also add GPU-less as an option.

IMO there's not much reason to break it down further than that.

EDIT: I found the link to that case build log (you know, Dan A4 layout before Dan A4). Turns out it's not that old, only 2012
It's a fairly obvious layout, so it's no surprise people would come up with it independently. I came up with essentially the same layout back in ~2009. I just didn't share it or do anything with it at the time. Ideas are a dime a dozen. What matters is execution, and on that front Dan deserves the credit for being the first to bring it to market as a real product. But that also doesn't mean that every case that comes after it that uses a similar layout is a rip off.
 

BaK

King of Cable Management
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May 17, 2016
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IMO there's not much reason to break it down further than that.
There is another layout shown on the @Testifier's SLITX project (3rd pic of this post):


I am also working on a similar setup (which I call 'twisted') on my my current project, but with the GPU parallel to the motherboard.
I hope to show it to you soon, but I'm still not sure to succeed as routing/folding correctly the PCIe riser in a restricted volume is tricky.
Then such layout can be set back-to-back, front-to-back or front-to-front.
 

Phuncz

Lord of the Boards
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May 9, 2015
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What's the benefit of this setup considering the strain on the PCIe riser (if even possible) and the two outer panels needing cutouts for I/O ?
 

Necere

Shrink Ray Wielder
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Feb 22, 2015
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There is another layout shown on the @Testifier's SLITX project (3rd pic of this post):


I am also working on a similar setup (which I call 'twisted') on my my current project, but with the GPU parallel to the motherboard.
I hope to show it to you soon, but I'm still not sure to succeed as routing/folding correctly the PCIe riser in a restricted volume is tricky.
Then such layout can be set back-to-back, front-to-back or front-to-front.
This is where an "other" category would apply.

I didn't mean to imply that there should only be the four categories I mentioned; just that there needn't be any more categories for specific layouts. A catch-all, "other" category is perfectly reasonable.
 

BaK

King of Cable Management
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May 17, 2016
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This is where an "other" category would apply.
Okay with an 'Other' category, thanx for the precision, I indeed didn't interpret correctly your previous message.

What's the benefit of this setup considering the strain on the PCIe riser (if even possible) and the two outer panels needing cutouts for I/O ?
It can help shrink case size, as in the @Testifier's build for instance, where furthermore no cutout for the GPU I/O is needed. I guess he will have to find a way to let the video cable getting out of the case though.

For my project, it is more because I want to have a front-to-front layout with the airflow perpendicular to the GPU. Which is not possible in a regular setup without having the riser blocking a lot of air:
 

Testifier

Average Stuffer
Oct 16, 2017
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I think the perpendicular setup like mine, while not exactly the most popular one, still deserves its own category. At least we know that the Corsair One is using the setup @BaK is talking about. We can see the main strength is that it helps the smaller-footprint monolith cases with not being overly tall like the Shift. The monolith style is a good getaway from the now-ubiquitous shoebox and console style IMHO
 
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