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CNC & Project Builds
- Thread starter SIEGEX
- Start date
The D.I.Y. CNC home projects machines haven't been around too long. Maybe 7 years.
But in that time span machines are cutting ally...with precision. And cutting 3d models too like a 3d printer.
Below are a few links. The youtube vide is the most impressive yet that machine has only been released.
video showing ally milling below
video showing 3d milling, the product is not ally yet there are videos showing engine blocks being milled with the Pocket NC desktop cnc
Video of the 5 axis cnc engine block milling, they had a video show casing the engine block from start to finish (time lapse) but I can't find it, veeeeery impressive
The following links are currently the best and cheapest to date. CNC Millright is the cheapest at the moment approx $600 usd
It'd be interesting to see what you guys can do with such a machine on hand
https://www.millrightcnc.com/product-page/pre-order-millright-cnc-carve-king-kit
https://shop.carbide3d.com/collections/machines/products/shapeoko-xl-kit?variant=42721938758
https://www.inventables.com/technologies/x-carvehttps://www.u-buy.com.au/catalog/pr...m-x-85mm?sku=B01M7VBAQN&store=US#!prettyPhotohttp://www.chinacnczone.com/en/cnc-6090-router-machine-manufacturer-chinacnczone_l290_p30.html
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That one is more expensive, the reality is SFF builders really don't need a 5 axis cnc. 5 axis is for 3 creation, 3 axis is suitable for sff buids.
The first video I am sure is a 3-4 axis cnc mill, this is all anyone would need
carving metal (even soft aluminum) is serious business. You can't do a case with a home cnc. You need to constantly lubricate the end mill, so you need at least a system to do that automatically. Also the working area becomes very messy very fast, you might want a cabinet or you need a dedicated place for it. Not to mention that home grade cnc are slow on aluminum and don't forget that they are really noisy.
I don't recall The Wright brothers or Neil Armstrong having that mind set (can't)
- Jul 19, 2015
- 818
- 1,359
Excuse me whilst I make my SFF computer chassis out of this 4' x 8' sheet of 3/4" plywood... ;^p
- Jul 19, 2015
- 818
- 1,359
LolIf its small enough you could make multiple SFF cases per sheet of 4' x 8'
You guys are missing the creative point of what these machines can do. Cuts can be done with this machine approx at 800mm x 640mm and up.
Its not ideal, though this machine is not aimed at cutting it's more so for design. And can improve time and effiency in design. Milling channels, ports, etching, design is what this machine is intended for. Well milling to be precise. We all know how difficult or time consuming creation takes. And this baby makes life a lot easier in this realm.
I'm a panel beater by trade (not anymore) yet a machine like this would be high on my tool list if I was doing sff builds. Which I'm not.....but I am planning and learning.
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I have been saving money for years and years to buy a CNC machine to make custom work faster for me so I don't have to rely on laser/waterjet/plasma people to get back to me for my projects. I was working with three companies just to make things faster but things were bad if I even needed parts from all three.
I spent about $5000 on a configure your own CNC after about a year of research. This is one of those machines where you can put alot of labor into it and get a machine that would cost you $10,000 if you were just to buy it outright. I didn't want a machine that ran some "sketchup" version of CAM but wanted to use Fusion 360 and Mach 3 because I didn't just want to make wooden signs and coffee coasters. I love it, but it is not magic. I got something that was extra beefy in hopes of cutting aluminum. I recommend looking at one of these to start. Configured out the door its about $8-9000, which might be worth it than sourcing all the parts from eBay and putting things together and doing alot of troubleshooting.
Here are some of the negatives:
1. Poor repeatability.
Repeatability, or how one part on one end of your table differs from the same part being cut on the other side, is a big issue with any CNC (plasma, laser, etc). CNC routers are just the worst. I don't want to put alot of time talking about that right now, but it is something you can look up.
2. Parts fixture.
CNC routers need complicated fixtures as opposed to laser, plasma, and waterjet, and it is an art designing your parts to be held down and extracted from them. I can't stress enough the complexity and time consuming nature of developing fixtures for CNC routing.
3. Learning curve
Any CNC has a high learning curve when talking about soup to nuts design and cutting, but routers are insane. I have experience with laser systems, a couple of waterjet machines, and I am learning about plasma systems but the CNC routing to do parts that aren't out of hobbiest materials requires a very significant time investment and dollar investment in bits and materials.
4. Routers do not replace waterjets, lasers, or plasma cutters.
I like my cnc router for its versatility, but any production part is going to best be made on the right machine. I use lasers for plastics, plasma for steel, and waterjet for wood, aluminum, and steel. It is much faster and less expensive to outsource these to professionals. I was barely able to justify my CNC. I actually do enough custom work each week that it makes sense for me, but this was only really beneficial when I started working on two to three custom mods at a time and lots of changes needed to be made on the fly.
You can cut aluminum sheet with my router, and I do it from time to time, but in all honesty this is not the right tool.
Positives:
1. You have immediate access to accurate marking and engraving.
I can cut acrylic and mark metal and wood for hand cutting and go to my computer and make a quick change for a customer or engrave their name or something in it. Very handy.
2. Versatility
With the right program, bit, coolant, and patience, you can cut nearly any material, which makes designing a prototype before you tell a shop to do it handy.
3. 2.5D cutting, 3D if you are a genious.
You only can do 2D cuts on a waterjet, plasma, or laser (yes, I know about multi axis lasers...if you have access to one and skill to program for it let me know). You can easily do 2.5D cuts with a CNC router, and if you are a mad genious with the right tricks and programming you can do some types of 3D cuts. 5 Axis machining is something I thought I wanted to learn, but after a year of 3 axis machining...no thank you. But there are "affordable" hobbiest 5 axis machines out now...
4. It is super awesome to have a CNC in your shop. I have expensive PC liquid cooling hardware hooked up to mine with dyes and LEDs because I CAN.
One thing to think about routers specifically. Reading the threads on CNCzone I always had a question in my mind. Why are all the long time members and posters, who know library volumes of info on building CNCs, programming them, know Mach 3 inside and out, and are proficient moderers never do anything with their CNCs? Like most of them it seems made one or two stupid coffee coasters when they first got their machine...but haven't actually made anything good? Well, I understand that now. I can measure out a complicated 2D part, mark it, cut it out by hand, and file/sand it to accuracy in maybe a day of work. It's going to take alot longer on the CNC router, be more dangerous, and cost more. The CNC really shines when you want to make a bunch of something and use it to mark out your parts before you hand cut or finish them. Know why you are getting one!!!!
I spent about $5000 on a configure your own CNC after about a year of research. This is one of those machines where you can put alot of labor into it and get a machine that would cost you $10,000 if you were just to buy it outright. I didn't want a machine that ran some "sketchup" version of CAM but wanted to use Fusion 360 and Mach 3 because I didn't just want to make wooden signs and coffee coasters. I love it, but it is not magic. I got something that was extra beefy in hopes of cutting aluminum. I recommend looking at one of these to start. Configured out the door its about $8-9000, which might be worth it than sourcing all the parts from eBay and putting things together and doing alot of troubleshooting.
Here are some of the negatives:
1. Poor repeatability.
Repeatability, or how one part on one end of your table differs from the same part being cut on the other side, is a big issue with any CNC (plasma, laser, etc). CNC routers are just the worst. I don't want to put alot of time talking about that right now, but it is something you can look up.
2. Parts fixture.
CNC routers need complicated fixtures as opposed to laser, plasma, and waterjet, and it is an art designing your parts to be held down and extracted from them. I can't stress enough the complexity and time consuming nature of developing fixtures for CNC routing.
3. Learning curve
Any CNC has a high learning curve when talking about soup to nuts design and cutting, but routers are insane. I have experience with laser systems, a couple of waterjet machines, and I am learning about plasma systems but the CNC routing to do parts that aren't out of hobbiest materials requires a very significant time investment and dollar investment in bits and materials.
4. Routers do not replace waterjets, lasers, or plasma cutters.
I like my cnc router for its versatility, but any production part is going to best be made on the right machine. I use lasers for plastics, plasma for steel, and waterjet for wood, aluminum, and steel. It is much faster and less expensive to outsource these to professionals. I was barely able to justify my CNC. I actually do enough custom work each week that it makes sense for me, but this was only really beneficial when I started working on two to three custom mods at a time and lots of changes needed to be made on the fly.
You can cut aluminum sheet with my router, and I do it from time to time, but in all honesty this is not the right tool.
Positives:
1. You have immediate access to accurate marking and engraving.
I can cut acrylic and mark metal and wood for hand cutting and go to my computer and make a quick change for a customer or engrave their name or something in it. Very handy.
2. Versatility
With the right program, bit, coolant, and patience, you can cut nearly any material, which makes designing a prototype before you tell a shop to do it handy.
3. 2.5D cutting, 3D if you are a genious.
You only can do 2D cuts on a waterjet, plasma, or laser (yes, I know about multi axis lasers...if you have access to one and skill to program for it let me know). You can easily do 2.5D cuts with a CNC router, and if you are a mad genious with the right tricks and programming you can do some types of 3D cuts. 5 Axis machining is something I thought I wanted to learn, but after a year of 3 axis machining...no thank you. But there are "affordable" hobbiest 5 axis machines out now...
4. It is super awesome to have a CNC in your shop. I have expensive PC liquid cooling hardware hooked up to mine with dyes and LEDs because I CAN.
One thing to think about routers specifically. Reading the threads on CNCzone I always had a question in my mind. Why are all the long time members and posters, who know library volumes of info on building CNCs, programming them, know Mach 3 inside and out, and are proficient moderers never do anything with their CNCs? Like most of them it seems made one or two stupid coffee coasters when they first got their machine...but haven't actually made anything good? Well, I understand that now. I can measure out a complicated 2D part, mark it, cut it out by hand, and file/sand it to accuracy in maybe a day of work. It's going to take alot longer on the CNC router, be more dangerous, and cost more. The CNC really shines when you want to make a bunch of something and use it to mark out your parts before you hand cut or finish them. Know why you are getting one!!!!
CNC mills offer water jets and/or air jets, so this is covered. As for carving aluminum, some of the links provided are capable of carving aluminium.....yes they are sloweeer than an Industry machine, yet they still are capable
Nice write upI have been saving money for years and years to buy a CNC machine to make custom work faster for me so I don't have to rely on laser/waterjet/plasma people to get back to me for my projects. I was working with three companies just to make things faster but things were bad if I even needed parts from all three.
I spent about $5000 on a configure your own CNC after about a year of research. This is one of those machines where you can put alot of labor into it and get a machine that would cost you $10,000 if you were just to buy it outright. I didn't want a machine that ran some "sketchup" version of CAM but wanted to use Fusion 360 and Mach 3 because I didn't just want to make wooden signs and coffee coasters. I love it, but it is not magic. I got something that was extra beefy in hopes of cutting aluminum. I recommend looking at one of these to start. Configured out the door its about $8-9000, which might be worth it than sourcing all the parts from eBay and putting things together and doing alot of troubleshooting.
Here are some of the negatives:
1. Poor repeatability.
Repeatability, or how one part on one end of your table differs from the same part being cut on the other side, is a big issue with any CNC (plasma, laser, etc). CNC routers are just the worst. I don't want to put alot of time talking about that right now, but it is something you can look up.
2. Parts fixture.
CNC routers need complicated fixtures as opposed to laser, plasma, and waterjet, and it is an art designing your parts to be held down and extracted from them. I can't stress enough the complexity and time consuming nature of developing fixtures for CNC routing.
3. Learning curve
Any CNC has a high learning curve when talking about soup to nuts design and cutting, but routers are insane. I have experience with laser systems, a couple of waterjet machines, and I am learning about plasma systems but the CNC routing to do parts that aren't out of hobbiest materials requires a very significant time investment and dollar investment in bits and materials.
4. Routers do not replace waterjets, lasers, or plasma cutters.
I like my cnc router for its versatility, but any production part is going to best be made on the right machine. I use lasers for plastics, plasma for steel, and waterjet for wood, aluminum, and steel. It is much faster and less expensive to outsource these to professionals. I was barely able to justify my CNC. I actually do enough custom work each week that it makes sense for me, but this was only really beneficial when I started working on two to three custom mods at a time and lots of changes needed to be made on the fly.
You can cut aluminum sheet with my router, and I do it from time to time, but in all honesty this is not the right tool.
Positives:
1. You have immediate access to accurate marking and engraving.
I can cut acrylic and mark metal and wood for hand cutting and go to my computer and make a quick change for a customer or engrave their name or something in it. Very handy.
2. Versatility
With the right program, bit, coolant, and patience, you can cut nearly any material, which makes designing a prototype before you tell a shop to do it handy.
3. 2.5D cutting, 3D if you are a genious.
You only can do 2D cuts on a waterjet, plasma, or laser (yes, I know about multi axis lasers...if you have access to one and skill to program for it let me know). You can easily do 2.5D cuts with a CNC router, and if you are a mad genious with the right tricks and programming you can do some types of 3D cuts. 5 Axis machining is something I thought I wanted to learn, but after a year of 3 axis machining...no thank you. But there are "affordable" hobbiest 5 axis machines out now...
4. It is super awesome to have a CNC in your shop. I have expensive PC liquid cooling hardware hooked up to mine with dyes and LEDs because I CAN.
One thing to think about routers specifically. Reading the threads on CNCzone I always had a question in my mind. Why are all the long time members and posters, who know library volumes of info on building CNCs, programming them, know Mach 3 inside and out, and are proficient moderers never do anything with their CNCs? Like most of them it seems made one or two stupid coffee coasters when they first got their machine...but haven't actually made anything good? Well, I understand that now. I can measure out a complicated 2D part, mark it, cut it out by hand, and file/sand it to accuracy in maybe a day of work. It's going to take alot longer on the CNC router, be more dangerous, and cost more. The CNC really shines when you want to make a bunch of something and use it to mark out your parts before you hand cut or finish them. Know why you are getting one!!!!
Some of my tips for CNC routing:
1. Spend the time and money to make sure your bed is true to your cutter. This might mean reinforcing it and resurfacing often. This is hyper critical when you are talking about repeating parts, or getting accuracy out of large parts. Being lazy will cost you.
2. Learn Mach 3. Don't just learn a workflow. If you ever need to stop, adjust and restart during the middle of a cut on expensive material or a complicated jig, you will want to know how to do this. I suspect most people lost interest in learning a program that looks like the controls to a nuclear submarine.
3. Your material is not perfectly flat, or uniform. It is going to vary in thickness, and usually it is a little warped. You might not think that seemingly perfectly level $60 acrylic sheet is flat, but you will end up cutting through it or not cutting all the way through it, and ruining hours of work and $$$ if you dont MAKE it level. This means you can't just clamp the outer edges of the material; you will need to make your program work with your fixture ahead of time. It is a PITA but you need to accept this and plan for it.
4. Dust extraction is a huge deal and one of the biggest pains in my side. The machine makes a huge mess. Make your first project a dust shoe build for your machine and vacuum system, and no, the template ones probably aren't going to work. I recommend designing and camming a dust shoe BEFORE you get a machine, to see what you are getting into.
5. Lots of people use a MDF spoilboard, which is great. The problem is you can't use any kind of lube and therefore cutting harder composites or alloys is out. Don't get lazy and use your MDF spoilboard with lube. Take the time to take it off if you have clamps and lube for machining alloys (which make a huge mess).
6. Test your feeds and speeds on scrap. This sounds obvious, but after spending hours and hours on your model and CAM and getting your machine setup you just want to cut! Don't ruin your expensive material before making certain your feeds and speeds are right.
7. If you think you can walk away and let your CNC do it's thing...you are going to be sad. These need baby sitting like crazy. I have a few programs and workflows that I can walk away for a couple mins at a time, but things can happen still...like tabs breaking and parts popping up and wreaking havoc.
8. Fusion's simulation is amazing. Use it over and over, and don't second guess it until you are an expert. Countless times I have thought I was smarter than it and I was wrong. If your part doesn't look exactly right in simulation, it's not going to look anything close to right in reality.
9. CNC machining is always a game on how to get as many parts out of your material as possible. I think this is why people invented lasers. You can't get too greedy with CNC routers, and they make alot of waste. If you are ever on the fence about squeezing in another part, choose waste. You waste alot less when you don't ruin your project and have to start over.
10. This is the simplest, but most important tip. Never forget to zero, home, return to zero, then JOG! Never forget! Some people argue returning to zero isn't necessary, and its not on paper. In reality, so many things can happen... ZERO, HOME, RETURN TO ZERO, JOG! When I say jog, by the way, I mean trace out your operation to operation paths to make sure your machine doesn't crash on clamps and other fixtures.
Some other tips are just par for course...using a different cutting bit is like learning a whole new machine, and I suppose the same goes for different types of materials.
1. Spend the time and money to make sure your bed is true to your cutter. This might mean reinforcing it and resurfacing often. This is hyper critical when you are talking about repeating parts, or getting accuracy out of large parts. Being lazy will cost you.
2. Learn Mach 3. Don't just learn a workflow. If you ever need to stop, adjust and restart during the middle of a cut on expensive material or a complicated jig, you will want to know how to do this. I suspect most people lost interest in learning a program that looks like the controls to a nuclear submarine.
3. Your material is not perfectly flat, or uniform. It is going to vary in thickness, and usually it is a little warped. You might not think that seemingly perfectly level $60 acrylic sheet is flat, but you will end up cutting through it or not cutting all the way through it, and ruining hours of work and $$$ if you dont MAKE it level. This means you can't just clamp the outer edges of the material; you will need to make your program work with your fixture ahead of time. It is a PITA but you need to accept this and plan for it.
4. Dust extraction is a huge deal and one of the biggest pains in my side. The machine makes a huge mess. Make your first project a dust shoe build for your machine and vacuum system, and no, the template ones probably aren't going to work. I recommend designing and camming a dust shoe BEFORE you get a machine, to see what you are getting into.
5. Lots of people use a MDF spoilboard, which is great. The problem is you can't use any kind of lube and therefore cutting harder composites or alloys is out. Don't get lazy and use your MDF spoilboard with lube. Take the time to take it off if you have clamps and lube for machining alloys (which make a huge mess).
6. Test your feeds and speeds on scrap. This sounds obvious, but after spending hours and hours on your model and CAM and getting your machine setup you just want to cut! Don't ruin your expensive material before making certain your feeds and speeds are right.
7. If you think you can walk away and let your CNC do it's thing...you are going to be sad. These need baby sitting like crazy. I have a few programs and workflows that I can walk away for a couple mins at a time, but things can happen still...like tabs breaking and parts popping up and wreaking havoc.
8. Fusion's simulation is amazing. Use it over and over, and don't second guess it until you are an expert. Countless times I have thought I was smarter than it and I was wrong. If your part doesn't look exactly right in simulation, it's not going to look anything close to right in reality.
9. CNC machining is always a game on how to get as many parts out of your material as possible. I think this is why people invented lasers. You can't get too greedy with CNC routers, and they make alot of waste. If you are ever on the fence about squeezing in another part, choose waste. You waste alot less when you don't ruin your project and have to start over.
10. This is the simplest, but most important tip. Never forget to zero, home, return to zero, then JOG! Never forget! Some people argue returning to zero isn't necessary, and its not on paper. In reality, so many things can happen... ZERO, HOME, RETURN TO ZERO, JOG! When I say jog, by the way, I mean trace out your operation to operation paths to make sure your machine doesn't crash on clamps and other fixtures.
Some other tips are just par for course...using a different cutting bit is like learning a whole new machine, and I suppose the same goes for different types of materials.
Josh makes some great points. I've had a home CNC for about 8 years now. I started with a little Romaxx table top, and last year I moved to a CNC Router Parts PRO4848. One thing I didn't get until the new machine, and I wished I had sooner, was auto z and proximity switches for homing. Wow, talk about a life changer...
Speaking of lube when cutting, I don't use any. Instead, I use an alcohol misting system. It sprays a very fine isopropyl alcohol on the end mill and work piece while cutting. It saves a lot of wear on the end mill, and it evaporates leaving no mess. You really don't need much either. The combination of the mist and air being blow keeps things lubricated and cool.
http://www.cncrouterparts.com/pro4848-4-x-4-cnc-router-kit-p-251.html
Speaking of lube when cutting, I don't use any. Instead, I use an alcohol misting system. It sprays a very fine isopropyl alcohol on the end mill and work piece while cutting. It saves a lot of wear on the end mill, and it evaporates leaving no mess. You really don't need much either. The combination of the mist and air being blow keeps things lubricated and cool.
http://www.cncrouterparts.com/pro4848-4-x-4-cnc-router-kit-p-251.html
You have a nice dust shoe
Thanks Josh. I've since made a second revision with larger vac hose and associated shop vac. It sucks so much, haha.
that is exactly what I mean. I've had a consumer CNC from some time now and I believe I spent more in vices, endmills, upgrades, not to mention software (damn! good CAM software is expensive!) than the CNC router itself.
also if you want to do anything more complex than simple 2d cuts the learning curve is steep. it's a very frustrating and gratifying machine at the same time
also if you want to do anything more complex than simple 2d cuts the learning curve is steep. it's a very frustrating and gratifying machine at the same time
