Completed Circle Pro - Solid Alu CNCed mini-itx case - 240mm liquid cooling

CircleTect

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May 1, 2017
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I'm pretty set on glass, just not confident it will make it in one piece once it sets sail.

I'm working with an excellent packaging designer, and our #1 priority is to make sure these things ship safe and sound :)

Customs charges seem to be a roll of the dice.

This case will actually be shipping from Europe or Asia most likely, and we'll be using a professional courier service, so you won't have to worry about customs fees. I can't guarantee anything at this point, but I also hate issues with customs, so am looking for the smoothest and least painful solution.
 

jukbo

Cable Smoosher
Jan 5, 2018
8
7
Hi there!!! First of all, I think this is the best design I've ever seen in my whole life for a mini ITX case! Just what I'm looking for: Small, absolutely Beautiful, and especially SMART!. I signed up for updates! I need to buy this case as soon as the first production batch becomes available! I'd like it with tempered glass panels! Congratulations again and again!
 

jukbo

Cable Smoosher
Jan 5, 2018
8
7
Hi there!!! First of all, I think this is the best design I've ever seen in my whole life for a mini ITX case! Just what I'm looking for: Small, absolutely Beautiful, and especially SMART!. I signed up for updates! I need to buy this case as soon as the first production batch becomes available! I'd like it with tempered glass panels! Congratulations again and again!
Any estimate of when the case is available for sale? I will be ordering from Canada.
 

jukbo

Cable Smoosher
Jan 5, 2018
8
7
BTW, Corsair H100iV2 dimensions are 276.00mm x 125.00mm x 30.00mm I wish this case allow it as this is a very popular AIO here (and the one I have!!!)...
 

Esso

Cable Smoosher
Nov 23, 2017
11
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I'm working with an excellent packaging designer, and our #1 priority is to make sure these things ship safe and sound :)

This case will actually be shipping from Europe or Asia most likely, and we'll be using a professional courier service, so you won't have to worry about customs fees. I can't guarantee anything at this point, but I also hate issues with customs, so am looking for the smoothest and least painful solution.

That's awesome to hear!! I am already subscribed on the (for lack of a better term) pre-order mailing list, can't wait!
 
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CircleTect

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Really liking the glass on this case. Would it be glass on one side, panel on the other or glass on both sides?

Glass OR metal on both sides. I think I'll be able to provide the option to buy a separate set of panels though, so you could also mix and match if you want.

I think this is the best design I've ever seen in my whole life for a mini ITX case!

Super glad you like it!

Any estimate of when the case is available for sale? I will be ordering from Canada.

Currently finalising production details with the manufacturer and working on the packaging so it can ship internationally. I'm leaning towards taking the time to get it right rather than rush it out with flaws, so realistically we're probably looking at shipping first units out earliest February / March. Sorry if that's a bit late for you, but these custom projects always take time. To give some perspective I've been working on this since May 2017.

Corsair H100iV2 dimensions are 276.00mm x 125.00mm x 30.00mm I wish this case allow it as this is a very popular AIO here (and the one I have!!!)...

It might be possible to fit another mm in the length (i.e 275 -> 276), but unfortunately changing the width from 120mm to 125mm would make the entire case 5mm wider. Doesn't sound like much, but once you get into refining the final dimensions of a SFF case like this, you're fighting for every last millimetre. As an example, I spent two days shaving off 2mm from the body in the most recent prototype. Sometimes you need to concede to compatibility requirements and sometimes 2mm can make all the difference.

That's awesome to hear!! I am already subscribed on the (for lack of a better term) pre-order mailing list, can't wait!

I wasn't expecting so many people to sign up to it honestly, especially since I added it so stealthily to the first post. Good find! Everyone else, feel free to sign up, but note that details of the design aren't finalised yet, and will likely change. I will post a link to the sign-up form more prominently here when everything's ready to go :)
 

CircleTect

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Circle Studio
May 1, 2017
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Just landed on this thread. Does this case support water-cooled GPUs? I'd love to have a completely quiet and cool rig. Thanks.

Welcome aboard! If you're talking about room for a reservoir and that kind of thing, not out of the box, no. I'd love to hear any thoughts you have on building in support for it though. In synthetic testing with a Zotac 1070 I haven't even noticed the sound of the GPU. The 3mm glass panel seems to dampen the noise a lot. I should get a dBa meter and find out how much exactly, but anecdotally it's enough to make the case the quietest computer in our office.
 
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Runamok81

Runner of Moks
Jul 27, 2015
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@CircleTect - Custom loops intimidate me. AIOs have a certain appeal. This is a tangent, but how hard would it be to make this case support either a 240mm rad or twin 120mm rads? Is that feasible?

High end CPUs only generate 100W of heat. Mid range GPUs run 150W. High-end GPUs run 250W. It seems to me that the GPU is best served with water-cooling? These are becoming more common.



Above is the Corsair GTX 1080 Ti Corsair Hydro. It's an MSI card with a corsair AIO attached. This particular card is too big for most ITX cases, but there isn't anything keeping a modder from doing the "The Mod" to a small ITX GPU.

I'm a dreamer, but man... It would be SWEET if this case could support a water-cooled GPU. Can I just imagine a Circle Pro with a Zotac GTX 1080 Ti Mini with "The Mod?" :)
 

Necere

Shrink Ray Wielder
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Feb 22, 2015
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@CircleTect - Custom loops intimidate me. AIOs have a certain appeal. This is a tangent, but how hard would it be to make this case support either a 240mm rad or twin 120mm rads? Is that feasible?

High end CPUs only generate 100W of heat. Mid range GPUs run 150W. High-end GPUs run 250W. It seems to me that the GPU is best served with water-cooling? These are becoming more common.



Above is the Corsair GTX 1080 Ti Corsair Hydro. It's an MSI card with a corsair AIO attached. This particular card is too big for most ITX cases, but there isn't anything keeping a modder from doing the "The Mod" to a small ITX GPU.

I'm a dreamer, but man... It would be SWEET if this case could support a water-cooled GPU. Can I just imagine a Circle Pro with a Zotac GTX 1080 Ti Mini with "The Mod?" :)
Oh, can I jump in and answer this one? (Cue Stephanie Tanner - "How rude!")

A 120mm AIO rad is between 150-160mm long, so two end-to-end would be 300-320mm long. I don't believe @CircleTect has given dimensions, but I'd be surprised if this case is over 300mm deep. That means internally, there's probably only ~285mm or so, or just enough for a 240 rad. So it's quite unlikely dual AIOs will fit in the current dimensions.
 

urmyeye

Cable Smoosher
Jul 12, 2017
8
4
How hard is it to do a custom water cooling loop in your case? Do you have more detailed measurements? I am looking for a sharp looking case which can do that without too much mods.
 

CircleTect

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how hard would it be to make this case support either a 240mm rad or twin 120mm rads? Is that feasible?

As @Necere very aptly pointed out, the dimensions are already razor thin around a smaller 240mm rad. 2 x 120 rads won't fit. Time to drop some dimensions: the case is 293mm (H) x 137mm (W) x 293mm (D)

Can I just imagine a Circle Pro with a Zotac GTX 1080 Ti Mini with "The Mod?" :)

I'm keen to dream about this too! On first inspection it would require the case to grow in height fairly significantly to fit another 240mm radiator at the bottom. Honestly, in heavy testing, I've had no problems with the air cooling on a 1070 and 1080. Haven't tested a 1080Ti yet, but the heat it dumps would be immediately pushed up towards the top radiator and expelled out the top. Yes, the radiator may start to reach saturation, but there appears to be headroom when my 7900X is sitting stable with synthetic loads at 66°C. This will need further testing of course.

An expandable AIO like Alphacool's Eisbaer line... might be a nice middle ground between a pair of AIOs and a fully custom loop.

Something like that would be freakin' cool. Pity this particular product doesn't fit. The CPU block is too tall (87mm vs 51mm), and the radiator is too long (279mm vs 275mm). One of my long term goals is to make a fully custom cooling solution, perhaps in some ways similar in concept to this.

How hard is it to do a custom water cooling loop in your case? Do you have more detailed measurements? I am looking for a sharp looking case which can do that without too much mods.

Ok, guys - help me out here. I hear that you are keen on doing custom loops. What is it exactly that you need? Do you want measurements of the free space internally / between components? One such space may be under the GPU - if you sacrifice 2.5" drive support, you can remove the drive bracket and install additional hardware, perhaps even a small custom reservoir + pump combo.

To be clear, I never really planned to support GPU water cooling with this case, but if it's something you guys are really interested in, I'd love to try and make it as compatible as I can, given the design flexibility we have at this point.

Tell me exactly what you guys would like to see - you've all expressed interest in this feature: @urmyeye @Runamok81 @Nasp @NuclearLemons
 

urmyeye

Cable Smoosher
Jul 12, 2017
8
4
Thanks for your reply. Knowing the free space internally will definitely help. Now, yb looking through your posts and development log, I have two thoughts at the moment:

The first will be using a ddc pump top with reservoir like this one,
http://www.performance-pcs.com/protium-ddc-mod-kit-polished-acrylic-silver.html
I feel like it can be mounted below the psu.
If the psu can be mounted as close to 240 radiator on the top as possible, only leaving enough space for a short extension plus 90 degree fittings to allow tubes to come out, and sleeve the cables to free up some space between the power supply and the bottom fans, the ddc combo might fit. The psu shroud is in the way though, need some modding there.

My second thought will be use apogee drive II and stand alone reservoir like this:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/bitspower-water-tank-hexagon-40-with-bracket-deluxe-version.html
It has 50 mm thickness, it should fit where the 2.5" drive bay is.
 
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Necere

Shrink Ray Wielder
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Feb 22, 2015
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Thanks for your reply. Knowing the free space internally will definitely help. Now, yb looking through your posts and development log, I have two thoughts at the moment:

The first will be using a ddc pump top with reservoir like this one,
http://www.performance-pcs.com/protium-ddc-mod-kit-polished-acrylic-silver.html
FYI that's just a pump top/custom lower housing for the DDC, not a reservoir, which are a separate (and much bigger) part you add on. The top/housing is 62x63x63mm by itself, while the smallest res they offer increases the overall height to 203mm. Only place I could see it fitting is lengthwise below the GPU, but I'm guessing there's not quite enough space for it (particularly once fittings are taken into account).

My second thought will be use apogee drive II
The Apogee Drive II won't fit, either. @Wahaha360 picked one of these up recently to take some measurements, here it is with a 60 degree fitting (the ports swivel 30 degrees, so 60 degree fittings are needed to make it an even 90 degrees):



As you can see, it needs close to 70mm with these particular fittings (13mm OD Bitspowers). @CircleTect has stated 51mm as the available CPU cooler/block height, so we're short by close to 20mm.


In terms of what might work, Koolance has a DDC pump top, which can be combined with some very short tube reservoirs. One of these might fit sideways under the PSU. Conveniently, they also provide models and drawings for many of their parts.

Another possibility is the Fractal Design Celsius/Kelvin expandable AIO. The only potential problem that I see, with the Celsius specifically, is the tubing comes straight out of the block, which might make it overall too tall to fit properly. It looks like it uses standard G1/4 ports, so you should be able to replace the stock fittings with right angle fittings, however that may not be enough to keep it under the 51mm maximum the case allows for.
 
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urmyeye

Cable Smoosher
Jul 12, 2017
8
4
FYI that's just a pump top/custom lower housing for the DDC, not a reservoir, which are a separate (and much bigger) part you add on. The top/housing is 62x63x63mm by itself, while the smallest res they offer increases the overall height to 203mm. Only place I could see it fitting is lengthwise below the GPU, but I'm guessing there's not quite enough space for it (particularly once fittings are taken into account).

The Apogee Drive II won't fit, either. @Wahaha360 picked one of these up recently to take some measurements, here it is with a 60 degree fitting (the ports swivel 30 degrees, so 60 degree fittings are needed to make it an even 90 degrees):



As you can see, it needs close to 70mm with these particular fittings (13mm OD Bitspowers). @CircleTect has stated 51mm as the available CPU cooler/block height, so we're short by close to 20mm.


In terms of what might work, Koolance has a DDC pump top, which can be combined with some very short tube reservoirs. One of these might fit sideways under the PSU. Conveniently, they also provide models and drawings for many of their parts.

Another possibility is the Fractal Design Celsius/Kelvin expandable AIO. The only potential problem that I see, with the Celsius specifically, is the tubing comes straight out of the block, which might make it overall too tall to fit properly. It looks like it uses standard G1/4 ports, so you should be able to replace the stock fittings with right angle fittings, however that may not be enough to keep it under the 51mm maximum the case allows for.

Really appreciate the evaluation!

You are absolutely right, I though that protium pump top is similar to this Alphacool pump top/res combo. And thanks for bringing up that Koolance pump top and 30mm res combo, that is a really compact solution, I feel like it will work well.

I didn't realize there is only 51mm clearance above CPU. Thanks for letting me know.

How about this reservoir, Bitspower Hexagon, I don't know the space between the bottom of graphic card and fan/case. It looks like if placing horizontally, 80mm is not that tall considering 2.5 inch drive is 70mm wide. I am not sure. If it can fit, then the pump can be mounted. below PSU.

The Celsius, according to amazon questions, sadly, we can't replace the fittings on CPU waterblock, so I am not sure that will work.
 

CircleTect

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Alright, let's have a look at the space we have. There isn't any room under the PSU. That area is designed to hide excess cable runs. In my builds, I've been coiling and stuffing the cables in there and makes for a clean build. I don't think you can fit anything else in there.



The image above doesn't do it full justice, but you can see the scale of one single power cable. There will be about 4 of them stuffed in there in a regular build. I designed the fan bracket underneath to actually clamp and compress on the cables in this area, that's how cramped it can get.



So why not move the PSU up closer to the radiator? Two reasons: although it looks like there's ample room in this picture, you're actually working against the minimum bend radius of the radiator tubes. Using a TD02 Lite, the pipes are quite stiff, and this is nearing the minimum distance I can bend them in without uncomfortably distorting them. The distance from the top of the PSU to the radiator is 46mm.

Second factor at the moment is the IEC cable. Because different power supplies have the IEC port facing different directions, I had to change the IEC connector from a right angle model to a standard straight model. This is so you wouldn't get a nasty surprise finding your power supply was not compatible.



On the other side is where we have a bit of room, if you're ok sacrificing 2.5" drive support. The pink rectangle has the dimensions: 143 x 38 x 80mm. You could probably increase the depth measurement from 38mm to something like 40-42, but you'll start majorly clashing with the IEC cable.



I would love to make a set of custom cooling solutions - because it would mean I could make custom fittings into the radiator. This, in combination with a new custom IEC low profile connector, means we could move the PSU closer to the radiator, potentially giving us more room for accessories. But that's a long term plan. For now, priority is on stock components and compatibility :)
 
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urmyeye

Cable Smoosher
Jul 12, 2017
8
4
Alright, let's have a look at the space we have. There isn't any room under the PSU. That area is designed to hide excess cable runs. In my builds, I've been coiling and stuffing the cables in there and makes for a clean build. I don't think you can fit anything else in there.



The image above doesn't do it full justice, but you can see the scale of one single power cable. There will be about 4 of them stuffed in there in a regular build. I designed the fan bracket underneath to actually clamp and compress on the cables in this area, that's how cramped it can get.



So why not move the PSU up closer to the radiator? Two reasons: although it looks like there's ample room in this picture, you're actually working against the minimum bend radius of the radiator tubes. Using a TD02 Lite, the pipes are quite stiff, and this is nearing the minimum distance I can bend them in without uncomfortably distorting them. The distance from the top of the PSU to the radiator is 46mm.

Second factor at the moment is the IEC cable. Because different power supplies have the IEC port facing different directions, I had to change the IEC connector from a right angle model to a standard straight model. This is so you wouldn't get a nasty surprise finding your power supply was not compatible.



On the other side is where we have a bit of room, if you're ok sacrificing 2.5" drive support. The pink rectangle has the dimensions: 143 x 38 x 80mm. You could probably increase the depth measurement from 38mm to something like 40-42, but you'll start majorly clashing with the IEC cable.



I would love to make a set of custom cooling solutions - because it would mean I could make custom fittings into the radiator. This, in combination with a new custom IEC low profile connector, means we could move the PSU closer to the radiator, potentially giving us more room for accessories. But that's a long term plan. For now, priority is on stock components and compatibility :)

Hmm, thanks for the info, the rigid AIO tubing does require a lot of room to bend. How is the PSU mounted now, is the bracket detachable from the shroud?
Without considering the IEC cable, what's distance from motherboard tray to glass panel?
 
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