CPU at 95W TDP, any opinions if 8 cores without multi-threading beats 6 cores with multi-threading?

n13L5

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Aug 20, 2017
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i7-8700k = 95W TDP, 6 cores, 12 threads

i7-9700k = 95W TDP, 8 cores, 8 threads



Which one is going to be better in...

Gaming?

Audio / Video editing?
 

Thehack

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8C>6C if it is on a monolithic design (which intel is). But you wouldn't notice in games really.

In work loads, it depends. I would get the 8C/8T > 6C>12T. They're about equal.
 
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Duality92

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8C>6C if it is on a monolithic design (which intel is). But you wouldn't notice in games really.

In work loads, it depends. I would get the 8C/8T > 6C>12T. They're about equal.

This, exactly.

For reference, the i5 8600K performs about equal to a i7 7700K, they're 6c/6t and 4c/8t respectively.
 
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tinyitx

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Jan 25, 2018
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And it is also not just the number of cores but also the frequency as well. i7 9700K has slightly higher frequency (by about 0.2 to 0.3GHz) at various core turbo and so it has this advantage.

For sure, this 8C8T vs 6C12T issue will be reviewed in depth once the i7 9700K is released.
My bet is, 9700K wins by 2-3% across the board.
 
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n13L5

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Aug 20, 2017
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8C>6C if it is on a monolithic design (which intel is). But you wouldn't notice in games really.

In work loads, it depends. I would get the 8C/8T > 6C>12T. They're about equal.
Thanks, I realize I should have been more specific with my question...



The drive for my question: is it worth waiting for the 8C/8T,

or if 6C/12T might actually be faster for running a DAW with dozens of tracks -

where the software does make use of multi-threading.
 

Duality92

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Apr 12, 2018
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you could try and see for yourself by disabling it to 4/8, checking times then 6/6 and checking times again, it could give you some kind of approximation if you extrapolate data. No one has exact info on the 8/8 yet, so I don't think we can answer your question specifically, we'll have to base ourselves on speculations and current available info.

since they're different generations too, there might be other small improvements that would render the current tests false.

I honestly think you should wait since it's right around the corner unless you can buy a 8700K for cheap used and once results are in, you can sell it and get the 9700K instead without much monetary loss.
 

n13L5

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Aug 20, 2017
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And it is also not just the number of cores but also the frequency as well. i7 9700K has slightly higher frequency (by about 0.2 to 0.3GHz) at various core turbo and so it has this advantage.

For sure, this 8C8T vs 6C12T issue will be reviewed in depth once the i7 9700K is released.
My bet is, 9700K wins by 2-3% across the board.

You know, your "bet" makes a very good point!

After all, we're not talking about Intel making everything as fast as they can, but Intel making everything as fast as Marketing needs it to sell each tier. So the 2-3% guess isn't relying on what Intel engineers 'could manage', but on where Intel marketing wanted to slot the piece.


And with that, your 2-3% guess is probably golden :p


Going with that, I guess I won't be "waiting" for the new Chip, but I'm still forced to wait for the Z390 boards, because of all the I/O features omitted from Z370 'gaming' boards, while the H370 boards have the I/O, but lack the various higher-end stability features.
 

tinyitx

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After all, we're not talking about Intel making everything as fast as they can, but Intel making everything as fast as Marketing needs it to sell each tier. So the 2-3% guess isn't relying on what Intel engineers 'could manage', but on where Intel marketing wanted to slot the piece.

Cannot really blame Intel for this strategy. And it is not just Intel. Most, if not all, companies would use such a strategy. Even non PC related companies like auto manufacturers (Mercedes Benz, BMW...etc) or mobile phone companies (Samsung...etc) would do similar thing. Why would a company with a product that is 100% better than its previous product would want to release all the improvements in one go? This is called 'tooth paste approach' which means you only squeeze out a little bit just to get your next product improved enough for it to have good sales. Under capitalism, companies are in for the maximum profit in the long term.

I think, Z390 based boards will come out about the same time as Intel 9-series. I, myself, am not in a hurry and so I will wait for i7 9700K (or i9 9900K, depending on the price) and Asus Z390i Gaming ITX motherboards. I hope they will come out on 1 October and I can then start my build by late October.
 

n13L5

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Aug 20, 2017
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Cannot really blame Intel for this strategy. And it is not just Intel. Most, if not all, companies would use such a strategy. Even non PC related companies like auto manufacturers (Mercedes Benz, BMW...etc) or mobile phone companies (Samsung...etc) would do similar thing. Why would a company with a product that is 100% better than its previous product would want to release all the improvements in one go? This is called 'tooth paste approach' which means you only squeeze out a little bit just to get your next product improved enough for it to have good sales. Under capitalism, companies are in for the maximum profit in the long term.

I think, Z390 based boards will come out about the same time as Intel 9-series. I, myself, am not in a hurry and so I will wait for i7 9700K (or i9 9900K, depending on the price) and Asus Z390i Gaming ITX motherboards. I hope they will come out on 1 October and I can then start my build by late October.

Oh yeah, I don't bother to "blame" Intel - its a given that corporations are foam whippers as well as our mortal enemies, so you don't expect them to be kind. A corporation is a corpse, no heart, artificial person. Should never exist.

Your second argument though does sound like "its ok because everybody does it"...
Well, if everybody is a slime and a foam whipper doesn't make it alright.

If almost everybody is a zombie, it certainly isn't alright to the few left that haven't turned zombie yet... o_O


And that toothpaste approach may fill their coffers with essentially worthless paper money printed by a criminal syndicate called the FED - for a while. But its slowing down human progress by reason of the big interest scam which our "Fractional-Reserve Debt Money" amounts to.



Corporations cannot run a stable business any more - because of the mechanics of interest - they need perpetual growth. Requiring infinite growth on a finite planet is going to cause problems.


The problem isn't a matter of interest in itself, but this:

When 10 corporations each borrow $1000,000 for a new production line or whatever, the following happens:

- The bank does NOT hand them the existing, deposited savings of various people in the town (which is what most people believe)
- The bank actually creates the money for this and any other credit from scratch. All they need is a 2% deposit with the central bank - so for each $1m loan, they need to only have @2k deposited (and even that 2% isn't nearly solid, in reality, its actually much less, but that's a different discussion - the one on "fractional reserve" money)
- so for the 10 loans of $1m, the bank is creating a total of ten million dollars new, from scratch - out of thin air.
- our money is called "debt money", because ALL money in circulation is exclusively created as debt in the form of loans.
If all paid off all their debts at once, there would be no more money in circulation - but that's actually impossible:

So here comes the reveal: When the bank creates and hands $10 million to the 10 corporations from our example, they expect the money to get paid back, but not only that, they want interest on that money! Lets use 10% to keep calculations simple

So any bank wants the 10 million back over the time of the loan (lets make it just one Year to keep it simple)
So after one Year, the bank gets back 10 million principal + 1 million interest. "So?" you say, "where's the problem?"

Ahh, the problem is, that the interest does NOT get created when the banks give out loans.

So lets say, all 10 corporations are hard working, make great products and customers love them but statistically, in any country using this method of creating money, financial life becomes a game of musical chairs - it is impossible for all 10 of the corporations to pay principal + interest as agreed, because 10% of the money required to fulfil their loan contracts is MISSING from circulation.

So 1, 2 or 3 companies of the 10 will not be able to make their payments in full, so banks extend the loans for as long as they feel like it, and eventually, they take away people's real assets, houses, factories, land etc, because the money system is a fraud, designed to eventually transfer ownership of all assets in the world to a handful of banks, who came to control this scam.



So, I'm not blaming Intel per se, they try to deal with the toxic monetary environment they are operating in, so they become toxic themselves.
 

n13L5

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Aug 20, 2017
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If you can waiOht, I'd get the 9700K. Soldered chips are just better than the lazy shit Intel has been doing.

Great, thanks for that info!
I didn't know we get to avoid that heat-transfer-destroying sloppy goop Intel has been using in the old generation!

So that'll make all the difference then. Existing coolers will allow more overclocking / lower temps.

SOLD!
 
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tinyitx

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Jan 25, 2018
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Your second argument though does sound like "its ok because everybody does it"...
Well, if everybody is a slime and a foam whipper doesn't make it alright.
No, I am not putting forward this argument at all. I am just stating such a practice.
Perhaps if I had put an adjective in the front of the sentence, it would not be misunderstood. (ie ''Sadly, even non PC related companies....'').