3d Technical Artist / Compositing / Game Dev Rig

[juanelo_dev]

Hi Folks!

I'm a 3d Technical Artist for games that often switches to video editing and compositing work as well. I travel abroad quite often and wanted to have a full-powered, portable setup with me. I'd like to share my tentative build, and get any feedback before I officially hit the button and purchase everything.

For context, I often find myself with huge Maya, Unity and Photoshop files open simultaneously, as well as 20-30 chrome tabs on different desktops. Several of these tabs run heavy web apps and services like AWS. I often need to pop into video calls with desktop sharing to give demos from within this combination of tools. I need to capture and edit video quickly (usually Camtasia and Premiere), and work with heavy Nuke scenes quite a bit. I've also been moving into running a VM to make game builds that require a different OS.

Here's the tentative build:
Case Dan A4-SFX
CPU i9-9900K Coffee Lake 8-Core, 16-Thread, 3.6 GHz
GPU GeForce RTX™ 2080 Ti GAMING OC 11G (debating between this and a 1080ti GTX)
Motherboard ASRock Motherboard (Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/AC)
Ram Corsair LPX 32GB (2x16GB) 3200MHz C16 DDR4 DRAM Memory Kit (pretty disappointed any mITX boards compatible with the 9900K seem to max out at 32gb ram. I'm aware there's larger Dimms, but they're very much out of my budget)
SSD Samsung 1TB EVO SSD (cannibalized from my current laptop)
PSU Thermaltake 600w 80+ with 120mm Ultra Quiet Fan, ATX 12v v2.3/EPS 12V Active PFC
Cooling Corsair Hydro Series H55 (CW-9060010-WW)
Cooling 2 Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM, 120mm

(the last two were additions made based on a comment by @dondan on a very similar thread)

I'd like to know if this is a reasonable build that can be expected to work under heavy workloads for extended periods of time without burning up. Also, I'd like to avoid de-lidding if possible. Any comments are greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[dondan]

I would use the Corsair SF600 psu. If you like to use a 120mm AIO you have to use ITX sized GPU. The most powerful ITX GPUs are Gigabyte GTX 1080 Mini or MSI RTX 2070 ITX.

If you need a full size GPU setup you have to use air cooling or a 92mm AIO (Asetek LC645) then you have to setup "Long Power Duration Limit" to 95W or less in the UEFI for the CPU.

If you like to use more than 32GB of Ram you should take a look at the Asrock X299E-ITX with an Intel 2066 CPU.

 

[juanelo_dev]

Thanks for the quick and thorough reply, Dan!

The Corsair SF600 psu looks good.

A few questions:
I'd like to go with a full size GPU (11 GB Vram). The <95W "Long Power Duration Limit" would be required even if using the 92mm AIO? Is it correct that I'd be necessarily limiting the performance of the CPU to prevent it from damage? Is it a large enough performance impact that a weaker CPU would be recommended in the first place?

Thanks for the mobo recommendation. I was actually originally interested in that board, but then realized that the 79**X processors were at least twice the price as the 9900k and while they had more cores, they had overall lower clock speeds, which seemed like might give me somewhat lower Maya viewport performance.

Thanks again!

 

[juanelo_dev]

Update: After scouring the internet, it looks like the Asetek LC645 and even the LC545 are totally sold out, without any indication as to when they'll be back, forcing me to have to stick with the Corsair Hydro H55.

The Optimum Tech guy claims that it's possible to fit in a full size GPU and the Corsair H55 AIO if one uses the HDplex 400w power supply. I'm considering it, but was hoping to find some confirmation here. Per pcpartpicker, looks like the power usage is 393w. Pardon my ignorance, but I don't know whether that refers to a max or average consumption. And if it were to go over 400, would that cause severe troubles / powering off, etc?

Case Dan A4-SFX
CPU i9-9900K Coffee Lake 8-Core, 16-Thread, 3.6 GHz
GPU MSI GEFORCE GTX1080 TI GAMING X 11G (seems to be one of the few 11gb gtx1080s to fit in the case per pcpartpicker)
Motherboard ASRock Motherboard (Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/AC)
Ram Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 DRAM 2666MHz (downgraded to 2666, as my understanding is that the upgrade to 3200 isn't worth the price differential)
SSD Samsung 1TB EVO SSD (cannibalized from my current laptop)
PSU Corsair SF Series, SF600, 600 Watt, Fully Modular Power Supply, 80+ Gold (Renewed)
Cooling Corsair Hydro Series H55 (CW-9060010-WW)
Cooling 2 Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM, 120mm

Any help greatly appreciated!!

 

[juanelo_dev]

Another update:

After some more research, it seems that the HDplex 400w wouldn't have enough juice to power the GPU. Also, it seems risky to fit the full length GPU along with the 120mm AIO.

So, taking @dondan 's advice and looking at:

Case Dan A4-SFX
CPU i9-9900K Coffee Lake 8-Core, 16-Thread, 3.6 GHz
GPU Zotac gtx 1080ti mini 11 GB
Motherboard ASRock Motherboard (Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/AC)
Ram Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 DRAM 2666MHz
SSD Samsung 1TB EVO SSD (cannibalized from my current laptop)
PSU Corsair SF Series, SF600, 600 Watt, Fully Modular Power Supply, 80+ Gold (Renewed)
Cooling Corsair Hydro Series H55 (CW-9060010-WW)
Cooling 2 Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM, 120mm

Any final thoughts? Would really appreciate some hint of whether this seems sound!

 

[UnknownBehemoth]

Wont the AIO be a problem for air travel?

Maybe you can downgrade the CPU. Have you seen this article?
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13591/the-intel-core-i9-9900k-at-95w-fixing-the-power-for-sff/5

 

[juanelo_dev]

Thanks for the link, @UnknownBehemoth; very interesting read. Looks like the performance drops happen with multiple cores engaged during rendering. As far as I've been able to find AIO shouldn't be an issue for air travel, even for a carry-on.

A question for @dondan (and apologies, but I haven't been able to find an answer in my searches):
If I'm now using a gtx 1080ti mini (not a full length card), and 120mm AIO cooling on the 9900k, is it still necessary to cap the 9900k to 95W?

 

[dondan]

The maximum length for a GPU next to the 120mm AIO is ~175mm. The Zotac 1080Ti mini is 210mm so it will not fit.


To be honest: I think you will have no fun with the unlocked 9900K inside the A4-SFX. And even with the 120mm AIO there will be usecase like aggressive CPU rendering (Keyshot) where the CPU will get extreme hot. So I think you have to play with "Long Power Duration Limit" even on a 120mm AIO if you put crazy work load on the CPU

120mm AIO "Long Power Duration Limit" = 150W-175W
92mm AIO "Long Power Duration Limit" = 120W-150W
Black Ridge with VLP Ram "Long Power Duration Limit" = 95-110W
Black Ridge, Noctua L9i " = 65-95W

So if you need the 9900k and there is no alternative like Ryzen 7 2700, you can't compromise on Long Power Duration Limit and you will put heavy load on the CPU I think you should use a ITX case that can fit a 240mm AIO like the Ncase M1.

In my opinion the unlocked 9900k is overrated. What matters is smooth working process without stuttering. If a rendering needs 2min or 1:30min this doesn't matters.

 

[juanelo_dev]

Thanks, @UnknownBehemoth and @dondan !

After considering your thoughts on CPU, there's two routes this could go. Any thoughts would be appreciated!!

Build A:
Uses i7-8700 (non k), and air cooling. The air cooling solution is taken from here and is comprised of a Cryorig C7 + Noctua NF-B9 redux 1600 PWM.

Case Dan A4-SFX
CPU i7-8700 (non-k)
GPU Zotac gtx 1080ti mini 11 GB (even a full-sized card should no longer be an issue as the h55 is removed)
Motherboard ASRock Motherboard (Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/AC)
Ram Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 DRAM 2666MHz
SSD Samsung 1TB EVO SSD (cannibalized from my current laptop)
PSU Corsair SF Series, SF600, 600 Watt, Fully Modular Power Supply, 80+ Gold
Cooling Cryorig C7
Cooling 2 Noctua NF-B9 redux 1600 PWM

Q: Does the cooling seem enough to handle the build?

Build B:

Case Dan A4-SFX
CPU i7-8700 (non-k)
GPU MSI RTX 2070 ITX
Motherboard ASRock Motherboard (Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/AC)
Ram Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 DRAM 2666MHz
SSD Samsung 1TB EVO SSD (cannibalized from my current laptop)
PSU Corsair SF Series, SF600, 600 Watt, Fully Modular Power Supply, 80+ Gold
Cooling Corsair Hydro Series H55 (CW-9060010-WW)
Cooling 2 Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM, 120mm

This should work, although I'd be disappointed to have to switch video cards.
Q: Would a build cooled by the H55 be able to support an i7-8700 or better, without limiting power?

Thank you!!

*edit - formatting

 

[UnknownBehemoth]

Do you have the case already or are waiting for the Ver 4 release?
I'm personally waiting for the A4-SFX V4 release + Alpenfohn Black Ridge + 120mm slim fan + VLP Ram.

It has several improvements in the cooling dept, such as allowing two slim 92mm fans (like the NF-A9x14) at the bottom if using an air cooled cpu fan.

And better compatibility with the Asetek 645LT, which would be the best 92mm AIO for a full-size GPU when its released: www.sfflab.com/products/asetek-aio?variant=20962216444017

Although I still haven't found out what will be the best CPU that this cooler can handle.

Currently I have a 6600K in an Ncase M1, I want to upgrade the CPU also, but the Ryzen 2700 will just be a side-grade in the gaming department. (Although better in multi-core programs, but I've no need for rendering yet.)

 

[juanelo_dev]

I’ve preordered the v4 (mostly because I simply was unable to purchase a v3). Are the two bottom fans new additions to the current fan space, or has the existing fan space simply changed location?

How does the Black Ridge compare to the Cryorig C7 without vlp ram?

While the 645LT looks promising, I’m not sure I can keep waiting to get this pc sorted out. It looks like the 8700 tdp is around 65w, although in benchmarks and rendering it’s known to get to 117w. I’d basically like to know whether this is air-coolable enough to be used to close to its full potential.

Looks like on your end the switch from the m1 to the fan will be a great space saver! I looked at that case, but it felt *just* a bit large to take with me each flight.

 

[Hellow]

better compatibility with the Asetek 645LT

Any source please?

 

[dondan]

@juanelo_dev
The Cryorig C7 + B9 redux will not fit, because the C7 heatsink without fan is 32mm if you now add a 25mm thick fan the total height is 57mm. The max height in A4 is 48mm.

Furthermore if you come very close to the side panel with the fan it will be not silent because of air turbulences.

I recommend the Noctua L9i for this CPU + adding a fan duct so the L9i will outperform the C7 because it does not recycle hot air. There will be a turorial on dan-cases.com on weekend how to do it.

The i7 8700 is specified with a TDP 65W so normally a L9i should be able to cool this. But as I mentioned earlier on modern Intel based motherboards the CPU is allowed to run the max turbo clock on all cores. Therefor the CPU is able to source up to twice as much power. (9900K – stock 95W TDP vs 210W TDP) If you setup “Long Power Duration Limit” in the UEFI to a value between 65 to 95W, the CPU will still reach the high turbo clock but as designed not on all cores. This means the i7 8700 none K will run with a TDP of 140W and not 65W.

Hint: The only way to cool a 8700 good enough without setup "Long Power Duration" is to delid the CPU. With the delided CPU the L9i is able to cool it propper.

 

[UnknownBehemoth]

I’ve preordered the v4 (mostly because I simply was unable to purchase a v3). Are the two bottom fans new additions to the current fan space, or has the existing fan space simply changed location?

How does the Black Ridge compare to the Cryorig C7 without vlp ram?

There's new fan mount holes below the motherboard. In addition to the old fan mounts below the PSU.

I read that the Cryorig C7's problem for the A4-SFX is that it becomes noisy due to closeness of the fan to the sides of the case,and that the solution would be to have be a DIY fan duct.

The Black Ridge isn't out yet, but I think it'll cool better than the C7 , since it uses 120mm fans if paired with VLP UDIMM DDR4 ECC server RAMs. Only some motherboards support these kinds of RAMs though. ASUS ones doesn't

Any source please?

Here you go:https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/dan-a4-sfx.252/page-53#post-125492

The Cryorig C7 + B9 redux will not fit, because the C7 heatsink without fan is 32mm if you now add a 25mm thick fan the total height is 57mm. The max height in A4 is 48mm.

Based on the link I think he meant just using the C7 with its stock fan, adding the B9 at the bottom of the PSU.

 

[Hellow]

Here you go:https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/dan-a4-sfx.252/page-53#post-125492

Thx for the source link.

If you are referring to this sentence

Lifting the PSU 5mm up to have more space for 92mm AIO

I think you'll be disappointed because if I remember well I read somewhere it wasn't possible... We have to wait for the final changelog Imo.

 

[juanelo_dev]

Based on the link I think he meant just using the C7 with its stock fan, adding the B9 at the bottom of the PSU.

Yup , that is what I meant, thanks!. I had read here that @IceIceBear had managed to get a non-delidded 8700(k) running at 78c during stress tests using the C7. Some noise isn't a huge issue for me if the cooling is significantly (>20-25% better) on the noisier one. Although if @dondan recommendation still stands at a Noctua L9i, I'm inclined to simply use that. (first sff build)

So:
Case Dan A4-SFX
CPU i7-8700 (non-k)
GPU Zotac - GeForce RTX 2080 8 GB Blower Video Card (finally decided to go with RTX)
Motherboard ASRock Motherboard (Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/AC)
Ram Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 DRAM 2666MHz
SSD Samsung 1TB EVO SSD (cannibalized from my current laptop)
PSU Corsair SF Series, SF600, 600 Watt, Fully Modular Power Supply, 80+ Gold
CPU Fan Noctua - NH-L9i 33.84 CFM CPU Cooler
Case Fan Noctua NF-B9 redux 1600 PWM

I'm willing to use @dondan 's recommended 95w "Long Power Duration Limit" and undervolting settings which according to this post should allow a single core to reach 4.6, while progressing to limit 6 cores at a still-reasonable 4.3. (According to the post, it should only represent around a 2% decline from the 'stock' performance)

Would love to hear from you guys, even if it's just a 'should work' before pushing the button! Thanks for all the help already!

 

[Hellow]

Imo go with the Alpenfohn Black Ridge

 

[juanelo_dev]

Shoot, one last update:
Can I actually expect to use the ASUS GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11G Turbo (from the A4 compatibility list) in here without having temperature issues?

Case Dan A4-SFX
CPU i7-8700 (non-k)
GPU ASUS GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11G Turbo
Motherboard ASRock Motherboard (Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/AC)
Ram Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 DRAM 2666MHz
SSD Samsung 1TB EVO SSD (cannibalized from my current laptop)
PSU Corsair SF Series, SF600, 600 Watt, Fully Modular Power Supply, 80+ Gold
CPU Fan Noctua - NH-L9i 33.84 CFM CPU Cooler
Case Fan Noctua NF-B9 redux 1600 PWM

@Hellow - seems like Black Ridge isn't available in the US atm -- also, I don't have vlp ram which seems to be the determining factor to get max performance out of this cooler, but thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Kettun]

Hey @juanelo_dev , I'm funnily enough in exactly the same boat as a technical artist and wanting to go SFF, and I think I'l be looking to copy most of your build.
Albeit, I'm sort of stuck with a 300mm long asus ROG strix 2070 for now and have to consider if I want to cut away a part of the case in the front to make it fit and sacrifice the 3rd hard drive slot (if that's even possible), or look to a slightly bigger case.
Additionally, prowling on the forums a bit and it seems the 645LT 92mm AIO is going to be in stock pretty soon (April? so before your case would even ship) https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/asetek-645lt-performance.10524/#post-141996 So perhaps with a little patience you'll be able to get both.
Edit: Reddit seems to have more shipping spoilers from AseDen
https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comm...air/ejhbsey?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

 

[juanelo_dev]

Ha! Glad all of this work is at least useful, @Kettun! Dan suggested the M1 originally, when I was looking at the 9900k and RX2080ti. I don't know a thing about that case except that it's a tiny bit larger. Might fit your card and help you avoid some of the wattage/temp compromises that the a4 seems to require!

Thanks for the heads up about the 645LT. Just posted on that thread to see what the likelihood of actually getting one upon release is.