Power Supply ~250W+ AC-DC Power Supplies?

zovc

King of Cable Management
Original poster
Jan 5, 2017
852
603
Hey!

So I was just reading over the Meanwell PSU thread and realized they are a little too big (~3" wide) for my application. The HDPLEX 300W AC-DC brick that's been announced is supposedly going to be 62mm, which is pretty much as large as I can possibly fit in my 64mm case (~2.5"), if I can fit it at all.

My system is going to be running a ~65W PSU (currently an undervolted/underclocked i7-4790K, probably a R7 1700 if a nice ITX board comes out) and a Gtx 1070 Mini that's rated to pull ~225W under load but probably only pulls 150W (haven't tested this yet). I probably need a ~300W power supply, but I'm going be testing to see if a ~250W supply will cut it.

Anyways, I was wondering if there are any AC-DC power supplies out there that can supply ~250-300W to either a HDPLEX 300W DC-ATX or a similar solution? If so, what are they and where can I find their dimensions?
 

zovc

King of Cable Management
Original poster
Jan 5, 2017
852
603
I'll take the measuring tape to my case either at lunch or this evening and get back to you. Is 250W the highest rated PSU in that form factor/configuration?

I should have some level of airflow getting to the PSU from either the GPU cooler or the CPU cooler's intakes, but I don't think I can squeeze in extra fans just for the PSU.
 

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
3,382
5,935
I have looked fairly extensively and it seems to be the only one available at that wattage. I found another that will do 225W and everything else in 4" x 2" is in the 200W or less range. The one drawback to this unit is that I could not find the 2 pin fan connector anywhere (CviLux is the manufacturer), so I decided to get a Meanwell to play with.

I am presently trying to find a GaN power supply company interested in making a similar type of unit, but so far haven't had any success.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zovc

zovc

King of Cable Management
Original poster
Jan 5, 2017
852
603
Alright, I'll also plug my test bench into my kill-a-watt and try to get some readings with the GPU/CPU under loads to get an idea of whether or not 250W will work.
 
Last edited:

zovc

King of Cable Management
Original poster
Jan 5, 2017
852
603
I don't have good testing methods yet, but:

I ran Just Cause 3 with maxed out settings at 1080p and MSI Afterburner reported only 97W max power draw. Its graph defaults to power draw between 0 and 150, so I am really thinking that Galax listing 225W is an error, factoring in the 75W PCI-e slot power alongside the rated 150W from the power supply via the PCI-e 8-pin power cable.

As far as measurements, the 2x4 should fit great, but I need to fit the card into the case again to make sure the ~1.3" 'height' of the power supply fits, too. This 250W supply might actually be the way to go, though I know next-to-nothing about wiring it all up.

Edit: If you dig up what direction airflow is supposed to hit the PSU, that information might end up being pertinent. When the GPU's fans are powering up, they move a lot of air and it comes mostly out of the 'back' of the card (opposite of the I/O) which is where I'd most likely end up mounting the PSU.
 
Last edited:

zovc

King of Cable Management
Original poster
Jan 5, 2017
852
603
The one drawback to this unit is that I could not find the 2 pin fan connector anywhere (CviLux is the manufacturer), so I decided to get a Meanwell to play with.

Is it maybe the same kind of fan header as these ones have?
 

zovc

King of Cable Management
Original poster
Jan 5, 2017
852
603
If I wanted to give this thing a shot, would you (or anyone else) be willing to help me figure out what all I need to do/what else I need to get it up and running?

Edit: I found this in the documentation regarding airflow. Which is pretty much the opposite of what I would have set up, if I'm interpreting it correctly.
 
Last edited:

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
3,382
5,935
Yeah I'd be happy to help. Shoot me a PM and I'll do my best. I'm about to go through a buildout of the Meanwell EPP-200-24, so I should have some relevant knowledge by the time I'm done that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zovc

Thehack

Spatial Philosopher
Creator
Mar 6, 2016
2,800
3,650
J-hackcompany.com
It's the transient loads you have to worry a bout. If you're using an HD-PLEX 300W DC-DC, it looks like they have a lot of quality capacitors, so I'd say drop HDPLEX an email and see if they aid in handling transient loads.

If it weren't for transient loads, your undervolt i7 + 1070 would run fine with just 200W.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zovc

zovc

King of Cable Management
Original poster
Jan 5, 2017
852
603
Transient loads being 'spikes' in power consumption? Like how the R9 Nano (I think?) has issues running on a lot of AC-DC bricks? Is there any way to test that besides getting one and trying it out (with my hardware)? If I ask the manufacturer (Artesyn?) how the device handles transient loads, do you think they can give me any useful data?

So, I just measured. I have pretty much exactly the right amount of vertical clearance with the card's shroud on, I can get about another 1/4" of clearance by either cutting the card's shroud or just removing it. Technically, the Artesyn 250W AC-DC should fit exactly into my system without needing any mods besides adding more room (~3/4") to the 'depth' of the front panel. I was already intending to add a new front panel as an aesthetic mod, so this is just adding a bit more work to that step.
 

Thehack

Spatial Philosopher
Creator
Mar 6, 2016
2,800
3,650
J-hackcompany.com
Transient loads being 'spikes' in power consumption? Like how the R9 Nano (I think?) has issues running on a lot of AC-DC bricks? Is there any way to test that besides getting one and trying it out (with my hardware)? If I ask the manufacturer (Artesyn?) how the device handles transient loads, do you think they can give me any useful data?

So, I just measured. I have pretty much exactly the right amount of vertical clearance with the card's shroud on, I can get about another 1/4" of clearance by either cutting the card's shroud or just removing it. Technically, the Artesyn 250W AC-DC should fit exactly into my system without needing any mods besides adding more room (~3/4") to the 'depth' of the front panel. I was already intending to add a new front panel as an aesthetic mod, so this is just adding a bit more work to that step.

Yeah. The 1070 pretty much sips power at 160W usage. It really shows how well NVidia can tune their chips.

It spikes up to ~200W. PSUs can handle spikes, but the question is to what extent?

Edit: It also depends on the model. Here is the reference model.



Certain cards use more than others. You can also dial back the spikes by power limiting it.
 

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
3,382
5,935
I presume that the meanwell and artesyn systems will probably work like a standard brick where they can handle spikes of 10-15% above rated wattage before they blow. The HDPlex 300 has been designed with our specific needs in mind and will tolerate spiking MUCH better than any of these units.
 

Thehack

Spatial Philosopher
Creator
Mar 6, 2016
2,800
3,650
J-hackcompany.com
I presume that the meanwell and artesyn systems will probably work like a standard brick where they can handle spikes of 10-15% above rated wattage before they blow. The HDPlex 300 has been designed with our specific needs in mind and will tolerate spiking MUCH better than any of these units.

If you're referring to the HDPlex AC-DC, more than likely it's just a regular sourced PSU with an enclosure. Their DC-DC should do the grunt of the work and the AC-DC can be a little bit dirtier.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GreatestUnKnown

zovc

King of Cable Management
Original poster
Jan 5, 2017
852
603
If you're referring to the HDPlex AC-DC, more than likely it's just a regular sourced PSU with an enclosure. Their DC-DC should do the grunt of the work and the AC-DC can be a little bit dirtier.

FWIW, I'm pretty much expecting to use the 300W DC-ATX(DC-DC) HDPLEX board unless someone gives me a compelling reason to use a different board. I'm just hoping to be able to fit the AC-DC unit inside of my case as well and so far this Artesyn unit seems to be the only viable candidate.
 

Thehack

Spatial Philosopher
Creator
Mar 6, 2016
2,800
3,650
J-hackcompany.com
FWIW, I'm pretty much expecting to use the 300W DC-ATX(DC-DC) HDPLEX board unless someone gives me a compelling reason to use a different board. I'm just hoping to be able to fit the AC-DC unit inside of my case as well and so far this Artesyn unit seems to be the only viable candidate.

Really that's not a bad choice. Your only other choice would to go for a 12V build.

The HD PLEX 300 is a proven product.

Maybe smallformfactor.net can just design their own PSU?!
 

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
3,382
5,935
If you're referring to the HDPlex AC-DC, more than likely it's just a regular sourced PSU with an enclosure. Their DC-DC should do the grunt of the work and the AC-DC can be a little bit dirtier.

I have it on authority that the HDPLEX 300W DC-DC is not an off the shelf AC DC unit. It has in fact been developed with the input of several community members, myself included. It is going to provide double to triple the spike protection that other AC-DC units provide in order specifically to provide a reliable 300W rating without having to worry about blowing your brick when your R9 Nano loads up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thehack

zovc

King of Cable Management
Original poster
Jan 5, 2017
852
603
So, to clarify. I was gaming (Just Cause 3, 1440p again) just now, when the card was drawing about ~95W (according to MSI Afterburner), I checked the Kill-a-Watt (I have to look under my desk to do that, so I can't keep a perfect eye on usage) and my system said it was pulling ~201W from the wall. That means it's definitely feasible the system would spike over 250W, but that would be a pretty intense use-case. I had to turn off vertical sync for the card to use that much juice.

And to be quite honest, I'm not opposed to limiting my card's power draw and underclocking it if I have to do that. I intentionally got a card that would knock 1080p gaming out of the park (and should continue to do so), so that even if my thermals were dubious I wouldn't shoot myself in the foot by tuning my card down.

That said, it sounds like you're saying the DC-ATX/DC-DC board is the one that needs to be able to handle spikes. Am I understanding that correctly?

Or do I also need to worry about my AC-DC unit's ability to handle these transient loads, too? Do you think I'd be pushing it with a unit that's rated up to 250W with decent circulation?
 

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
3,382
5,935
The DC-DC part of the solution is not going to be the issue if you're using around its rated spec. It's the AC-DC component that is the most likely to break on a spike. If you have a Meanwell EPP-200 and you're pulling 201 from the wall, then that's only about 180 from the unit. You'd PROBABLY be okay with that combo, but personally I'd be kind of nervous that the unit might die under load. If you're using a 250W unit, I think you're probably going to be okay. Hypothetically a 250W rated unit should safely be able to manage spikes into 275W territory and you're so far below that I can't see you having an issue.