Concept 10liters double 360Rad Pc

Bfw99

Chassis Packer
Original poster
Sep 5, 2019
15
5
Hey guys,
Im new here as in 10 minutes new. but i wanted to share my concept pc.

Id like to build a sff pc with double 360 mm radiators a 2080ti and a ryzen 9 3900x with a size of just 10 liters!

Its dimensions will be 410mm*270mm*90mm and itwill be made out of sheet metal.

the feet will be those threaded table feet on which u can adjust the height, to give the pc extra breathing room.

both cpu and gpu will be in the loop.

what else do you guys recommend? just let me know.
 

Tazpr

Master of Cramming
Aug 7, 2018
553
429
I'm also curious how you plan to fit 2x360mm radiators and the proposed hardward in an enclosure of this size?
Judging from the dimensions you'll be running the radiators either horizontally or vertically parallel but then where are the other parts going?


That's with radiators back to back with fans blowing straight through - don't have slim fan models but that's obviously ideal with 90mm of depth.

The other option I can think of sees the Motherboard and GPU stacking with the radiators on the side and parallel


This still doesn't fit the dimensions though with the GPU sticking out the bottom XD

I think 2 x 360mm rads in a case would be amazing, but how unorthodox is the mounting arrangement/hardware support?

I'd love for you to prove me wrong btw, just trying to use the dimensions you provided create a concept and struggled to get everything to fit in the area.

PS: I apologise for the crappy images, I just played around in PC Design Foundry's browser case designer for like 5 minutes with a custom block using your dimensions for reference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Curiosity

CountNoctua

(no relation)
Jul 11, 2019
214
263
Double 360mm is a bit excessive as far as volume for an SFF case.

Double 280mm is ideal for me, as the performance difference between 280mm and 360mm is small enough that it becomes hard to justify the size of a 360mm cooler.

The times where a 360mm is required, I would actually rather step up to a larger case and a custom loop with a 420mm rad running lower RPM 140mm fans.
 
Last edited:

Bfw99

Chassis Packer
Original poster
Sep 5, 2019
15
5
well as i cant figure out where to drop the pics ill just try to explain. btw it will be drawings by hand.

In the case there will be two 360mm xspc tx360 next to eacht other. on top of these two rads there will be 6*120mm fans of 15mm thick.
that will be mounted on the top plate so the dimensions will be 410 mm of the top plate and the length of the rads is 398mm. 25,5mm thick and the top plate will be 270 wide and the rads are 250 wide.

then on the bottom plate of the case there will be the rest of the hardware. this will be an sfx psu an itx mobo, a watercooled gpu a pump and een reservoir.

Mobo+psu is 170+100mm wide
psu is 120 long and 63mm height
gpu 135mm wide, 265 long and 2 slots is around 45mm in height.
the pump will be 40mm in height
and the tubing will be soft.
dimensions are:
height: psu+rad+fan: 63+20,5+15
wide: mobo+psu: 170+100
length:rads+ space for the pump:398+a bit:410mm

so basiccally it will be a flat briefcase design with two 360mm rads mounted on the top of it (inside the case) and all the hardware will fit on the bottomside.
 

CountNoctua

(no relation)
Jul 11, 2019
214
263
You can share pics using imgur.

And I haven't done the numbers, but you would probably be better off with 280mm rads with 140x25mm Noctuas than you would be with 120x15mm fans (most slim fans aren't high static pressure) on a 360mm, and definitely if normalizing for noise. Or one 280mm and a 240mm or smaller rad for GPU, which should be plenty. That would also allow room for fan to keep mobo/ssd/VRMs cool, as well as more room for cable/tube routing, or thicker tubing and a better pump/reservoir, which may also be better for cooling performance with dual rads than simply trying to maximize length of rads (I'm not a water cooling expert, though).

Dual 360mm custom loop sounds nightmarish for setup and maintenance, even if you do manage to fit in all the components. It sounds like overkill, anyway, unless you plan on overclocking the 3900X (probably not worth it, minimal gains with Ryzen 3000), and if you plan on OCing both CPU and GPU, I would make sure to get the best PSU possible.
 
Last edited:

Bfw99

Chassis Packer
Original poster
Sep 5, 2019
15
5
Here is the hand drawn concept layout of the pc parts on the bottom. The is just the 2*360rads with 6 fans on top.
concept
 

duynguyenle

Airflow Optimizer
Aug 20, 2019
289
271
It appears you're trying to connect the radiator in series, this is not an efficient arrangement and you're going to rapidly approach diminishing returns in terms of how useful that second radiator is. My instinct tells me the second radiator is going to make not a huge difference to the fluid temperature (remember thermal transfer is a function of the temperature difference, the higher the delta, the more heat transfer takes place, and it's a nonlinear relationship).

In this arrangement, most of the heat dissipation takes place in the first radiator, and it doesn't make much sense to have a second radiator this way. A single radiator with higher fin density and/or faster spinning fans will work just as well as two radiator in series, especially if you're trying to cool components that doesn't produce enough heat to saturate one radiator ( in this case there's plenty of heat going into loop, but I still think it's a very inefficient arrangement)

Just my two cents. YMMV depending on a lot of variables)
 

Bfw99

Chassis Packer
Original poster
Sep 5, 2019
15
5
well a thicker radiator wont fit because of the dimensions. will it be a better idea than to have two separate loops, one for the cpu and one for the gpu?
 

Necere

Shrink Way Wielder
NCASE
Feb 22, 2015
1,685
3,175
Couple things you've overlooked. Sketchup quickie to illustrate:



You've forgotten to account for room the PSU cables will need, particularly where they overlap the motherboard. Rotating the PSU 90 degrees solves the problem, but does make it over 300mm deep. Also SFX is 125x100mm, not 120x100mm.

Here's your full layout, more or less, from what I can determine from your sketches:



Looks like the height of the case would end up over 100mm with this arrangement. Looking at a minimum volume of maybe 13-14L.


Edit: or I guess you wanted it arranged this way?



Dimensions are the same either way.
 
Last edited:

Necere

Shrink Way Wielder
NCASE
Feb 22, 2015
1,685
3,175
It appears you're trying to connect the radiator in series, this is not an efficient arrangement and you're going to rapidly approach diminishing returns in terms of how useful that second radiator is. My instinct tells me the second radiator is going to make not a huge difference to the fluid temperature (remember thermal transfer is a function of the temperature difference, the higher the delta, the more heat transfer takes place, and it's a nonlinear relationship).

In this arrangement, most of the heat dissipation takes place in the first radiator, and it doesn't make much sense to have a second radiator this way. A single radiator with higher fin density and/or faster spinning fans will work just as well as two radiator in series, especially if you're trying to cool components that doesn't produce enough heat to saturate one radiator ( in this case there's plenty of heat going into loop, but I still think it's a very inefficient arrangement)

Just my two cents. YMMV depending on a lot of variables)
Coolant temperature typically doesn't vary more than a degree or two at any point in the loop, so it's fine to run rads in series like this.
 
Last edited:

Bfw99

Chassis Packer
Original poster
Sep 5, 2019
15
5
thanks for those 3D drawings.
ill redraw it on paper again(i dont really understand those 3d programs).

And why this arrangement of components is because the case eventually has to fit in a larger bag. so thats also why i dont wanna use thick radiators and large components.

For airflow problems a mate of me came to me and said: u can use feet on a metal tube with threading in it so i can screw it onto a bolt. the bolt is attached on the top cover. so when moving the case u keep the feet retracted so the case is flat and thight. and when using the pc u can loosen the feet so the top cover will raise up for better airflow.(i hope this is clear for you guys).

Thanks for reacting to my post, thinking with me and helping me. I really appreciate it!!



Edit: If u got more ideas or tips just tell me id like to hear it
 

CountNoctua

(no relation)
Jul 11, 2019
214
263
What's the priority, building a dual 360mm radiator system for the sake of building it (which is a challenging and possibly fun project), or building a case to suit your components? Because you don't really need liquid cooling for the GPU, and you don't need a 360mm rad for a 3900X (XSPC does make smaller slim rads, btw). A 9900K or other HEDT CPU OCed, yes, but you're adding needless complexity, price, and volume by going even with thin radiators versus a smaller, single rad cooling setup. And if this is designed to be backpackable/portable, you may want to consider designing around air or AIO, as that's less of a worry (in my opinion) for travel than custom loop.

If you are set on doing this, I would suggest mocking up the components in real space, just using paper (papercraft) or actual components to stand in. That way you get an idea of things like clearances and space needed for cable routing. There's also space going to be taken up by the internal structure or skeleton of the case, or compartments if you design separate areas for the GPU, PSU, etc.

The case is going to need very good ventilation if you do end up doing 2x 360mm because otherwise in either intake or exhaust configuration the other components in the case will either be heated up by the rads or air-starved, neither of which would be good for the lifespan or stability of the components. You'll also want to have custom-length, custom-sleeved or unsleeved cables for PSU, to save on space and minimize obstruction of airflow.

Good luck! Keep us updated if you can. :)
 
Last edited:

duynguyenle

Airflow Optimizer
Aug 20, 2019
289
271
Coolant temperature typically doesn't vary more than a degree or two at any point in the loop, so it's fine to run rads in series like this.

Thanks for the insight, I'm used to systems where fluid operating temperatures are in the high tens to low hundreds of degrees, I suppose for cooling typical PC components, the thermal gradient is low enough that it probably won't make too much of a difference...

Still, 2x radiator seems overkill. A single 360 radiator will comfortably deal with the heat from the components OP wants to use
 
  • Like
Reactions: CountNoctua

CC Ricers

Shrink Way Wielder
Bronze Supporter
Nov 1, 2015
2,069
2,246
From days spent at overclock.net I've seen a popular rule of thumb for good cooling performance, it's usually 1x120mm rad per CPU or GPU component, then add 1x120mm more. So for a CPU+GPU setup, it's enough to use a single 360 or 120+240. That is how the Compact Splash (14L) was designed for.

ExChromeLeopard was a one off case with bifurcated R9 Nano GPUs with 360mm of total radiator space in 10 liters. I would like to see a reference point from there and replace the dual nano with a full length GPU.
 

Hacko

Cable Smoosher
Jul 29, 2019
11
1
I would second the proposal to make a single FAT 360x60 rad case with 120x25 standard fans, more than enough for OCd cpu + GPU.

NOONE in this community has a valid project of this kind.(and i mean fat rad for full custom loop, not a slim 360mm AIO) I would definitely buy.

I mean, at the moment i think there are only one or 2 (2x 240 rads) options, which makes less sense and costs more than a single fatboy build......


Whoever could make it should IMO consider it.

top rad, bottom filtered grill, sealed front distro plate with embedded DDC pump, sealed back and sides. a real negative pressure case.

Simple one compartment box, powder painted in 5 colours.

Makes sense to anyone?
 

Thehack

Spatial Philosopher
Creator
Bronze Supporter
Mar 6, 2016
2,735
3,494
J-hackcompany.com
I would second the proposal to make a single FAT 360x60 rad case with 120x25 standard fans, more than enough for OCd cpu + GPU.

NOONE in this community has a valid project of this kind.(and i mean fat rad for full custom loop, not a slim 360mm AIO) I would definitely buy.

I mean, at the moment i think there are only one or 2 (2x 240 rads) options, which makes less sense and costs more than a single fatboy build......


Whoever could make it should IMO consider it.

top rad, bottom filtered grill, sealed front distro plate with embedded DDC pump, sealed back and sides. a real negative pressure case.

Simple one compartment box, powder painted in 5 colours.

Makes sense to anyone?

That would be for custom cooling. Wouldn't make a lot of good business sense. SFF is a niche. Custom water cooling is a niche.

Add two niches and you get a super niche.

Also 360mm requires at least 380mm length in one direction. That number doesn't add up to any other components. GPUs are 270-300mm. Motherboard + PSU is 300mm.
 
Last edited:

Hacko

Cable Smoosher
Jul 29, 2019
11
1
That would be for custom cooling. Wouldn't make a lot of good business sense. SFF is a niche. Custom water cooling is a niche.

Add two niches and you get a super niche.

Also 360mm requires at least 380mm length in one direction. That number doesn't add up to any other components. GPUs are 270-300mm. Motherboard + PSU is 300mm.


I have to disagree,

i have seen quite a few downvolted SFF builds. This does not make sense to me, or to corsair (one) or digitalstorm (bolt) and it isindeed a much more important compromise than size for many.

A small custom loop is both powerful and, well, small. It does not have to be the smallest otherwise we would all buy mac minis or ARMs.

It should tick all boxes, and if while doing so you need 380mm length then so be it.

A professional could render on the go, without (IMO) reducing by some % his performance while spending the full amount of money. Gaming on a small desk sitting the case horizontally under the screen...

By exploiting hardware i mean overclock it, squeezing as much performance per dollar as possible


380x220x140 is not a niche case, especially for around 150$. (obviously these are very rough guesstimations). Lessons about this come from Ncase, NZXT, LianLi.........

Look at Sliger SV590, getting reeeeeeeeeeeeally close to it

without radiator it could also become a 6x120 (3 in 3 out) fans case... also a very good air cooling option

Hope to get some constructive and peaceful discussion going, peace and love :)